Cayman GT4....Damn you Porsche!!

[Bavarian Beast]

Sexy! I like it a lot, but wonder if it can replace my M3 dd.......I am unconvinced. But it it so sexy.....

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Beast

Sexy! I like it a lot, but wonder if it can replace my M3 dd.......I am unconvinced. But it it so sexy.....

I have the same thoughts, but the 991 GT3 is apparently very DDable. I don't have much of a commute anyway.

The only concern for me is loss of rear seats since the wife has an R56 Cooper S, whose rear seats barely qualify as seats. I don't use them often, but when parents come into town or when I want to drive more than one person around, it's nice to have them. And then of course cargo capacity since I do haul stuff on occasion, but I suppose in a pinch either of those limitations could be worked around with a rental, lol.

[Flying Ace]

I would do anything for that car....ANYTHING

[quicktwinturbo]

Add few options and boom ... 100k

[BrewRifle]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

I would do anything for that car....ANYTHING

PM'd

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by BrewRifle

PM'd

yeah, I could be up for that...but how are you going to get the Cayman?

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by jphughan

I'm not questioning their effectiveness. PCCBs are great if you want to show up to a track day and run hard without even having to swap pads or if you're absolutely obsessive about weight savings, but that's about it. A proper steel brake setup with race pads will perform just as well at a fraction of the cost and potential for expensive mistakes. But otherwise:

- On the road PCCB makes absolutely no performance difference. The only benefit is lack of dust and the fact that the pads and rotors last a lot longer, but the $7400 for PCCB on a GT4 would buy you a lot of high-end car washes and standard pad/rotor replacements.

- On the track, sure they don't fade, but the PCCB pads and rotors also do not last a whole lot longer than the standard setup under track usage despite costing a whole lot more. The rotors are also extremely fragile. If you nick one while removing/reinstalling a wheel, you may well have to replace it. Same goes if you kick up some debris during an unplanned off-track excursion. And given that rotors should be replaced in pairs on the same axle and that PCCB rotors are ~$4K each, I just don't see the value.

Like I said in my original post, the fact that Porsche has made pad swaps more difficult on the 981/991 platform than in the past rankles a bit, but I'd still be happy to swap pads for track events if the alternative is putting up with PCCB's costs and risks. Or maybe I'll say screw the innocent bystanders and run race pads even on the street.

PCCBs also periodically squeak which sux.

I also recently experienced the brake pedal hit the floor on my PCCB's before turn 1 at Big Willow. Happened to my M3 when my brakes were stock...but never after I upgraded to Stop Techs.

[radiantm3]

If you spend more than 5-10k optioning up this car, you bought the wrong car in the first place. This car is designed for the track. All you need is the sport bucket seats and possibly the Chrono package. PCCB's are a huge waste of money if you plan to track it.

[///Matthew]

Yes please.

[Bimmed Out]

Evo is funny. This is the Cayman unleashed? The 3.8L engine has been detuned to allow the 911 to stay on top. Same old story with Porsche. I've owned five 911s, so I know how it goes all too well. Still a nice package for the money, though.

Originally Posted by s85e90

I like it but it's still a Cayman.

Yup.

Originally Posted by SunnyD

Makes your choice that much simpler- if you want 6spd, get the GT4; PDK, the GT3.

Problem is, a lot of people want the 6-speed manual with the GT3 engine.

[Petros]

Good car. But as usual with Porsche, pricing is absurd. For that price tag I would rather get a GTR or Vette Z06

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by kepler

Evo is funny. This is the Cayman unleashed? The 3.8L engine has been detuned to allow the 911 to stay on top. Same old story with Porsche. I've owned five 911s, so I know how it goes all too well. Still a nice package for the money, though.

Detuned to allow WHICH 911 to stay on top? The GT3? Well considering that this is $30-50K cheaper than a GT3 depending on how you option each one, that seems perfectly fair to me. That cost savings had to come from somewhere, and I expect that recycling the regular 3.8 from the 911S is responsible for a lot of it given that the rest of the chassis seems to borrow heavily from the GT3. I'm actually surprised the premium over the Cayman GTS isn't more than it is. Anyway, given that some people here are already doing the, "$100K for a Cayman???" thing, I think Porsche would have had trouble essentially offering a Cayman GT3 at a 911 GT3 price point, even if it would be an amazing car.

Anyway, the GT4 is already apparently as fast as a 997.2 GT3. Not bad company at all IMHO.

Originally Posted by kepler

Problem is, a lot of people want the 6-speed manual with the GT3 engine.

Or a PDK in a more affordable GT car. But it's not a perfect world.

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by Petros

Good car. But as usual with Porsche, pricing is absurd. For that price tag I would rather get a GTR or Vette Z06

Have you driven any Cayman, a GTR, or any Vette Z06 to inform that opinion? Or are you just shopping by spec sheet without allowing for the possibility that the experience might make up for the horsepower/torque deficit? I don't have any seat time with any of these 3 cars, but somehow Porsche keeps managing to sell Caymans at their prices despite more powerful competition at the same price point, so that tells me there must be something there and therefore that I should probably refrain from proclamations like that until I actually have a basis for making them. Otherwise I'm just another armchair racer.

[Petros]

Originally Posted by jphughan

Have you driven any Cayman, a GTR, or any Vette Z06 to inform that opinion? Or are you just shopping by spec sheet without allowing for the possibility that the experience might make up for the horsepower/torque deficit? I don't have any seat time with any of these 3 cars, but somehow Porsche keeps managing to sell Caymans at their prices despite more powerful competition at the same price point. That tells me there must be something there, so I'm refraining from proclamations like this until I actually have a basis for making them.

Simple. It's all about poser appeal. I just roll my eyes at Porsche fanboys trying to excuse the price tag based on some secret and mythical "driving experience" that apparently no other car company in the world has a clue about how to make. I have no doubt Porsche makes good cars. But I wonder if in some parallel universe, where the exact same identical cars are manufactured by a company like Kia or Honda instead, I wonder in that universe how many people would actually be willing to pay those inflated price tags that Caymans and 911 versions go for?


And yes I did drive a Porsche before, a 987 base Cayman. It was pretty good, but didn't quite overwhelm me like all the hype lead me to believe. I would have bought one, if the price tag wasn't so absurd.

[Law]

Originally Posted by kepler

Evo is funny. This is the Cayman unleashed? The 3.8L engine has been detuned to allow the 911 to stay on top. Same old story with Porsche. I've owned five 911s, so I know how it goes all too well. Still a nice package for the money, though.



Yup.



Problem is, a lot of people want the 6-speed manual with the GT3 engine.

Precisely.

Great car nonetheless & i applaud Porsche for building it.

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by Petros

Simple. It's all about poser appeal. I just roll my eyes at Porsche fanboys trying to excuse the price tag based on some secret and mythical "driving experience" that apparently no other car company in the world has a clue about how to make. I have no doubt Porsche makes good cars. But I wonder if in some parallel universe, where the exact same identical cars are manufactured by a company like Kia or Honda instead, I wonder in that universe how many people would actually be willing to pay those inflated price tags that Caymans and 911 versions go for?

And yes I did drive a Porsche before, a 987 base Cayman. It was pretty good, but didn't quite overwhelm me like all the hype lead me to believe. I would have bought one, if the price tag wasn't so absurd.

Well to be fair, Porsche is the only game in town making rear-engine performance cars, so they do have a lock on that particular driving experience. And the Cayman is arguably the only somewhat practical mid-engine car in current or even recent production that doesn't have exotic-level pricing; I don't consider Lotus cars practical enough to be DD, and the MR2 has been out of the game way too long.

Yes, there are undoubtedly people who buy Porsches because they're Porsches -- but that's just as true for BMW, especially M cars. In my book, anyone who owns an M car and never goes to the track is a poser, and I roll my eyes at them for thinking they're getting their money's worth out of the car doing nothing but commuting in it -- never mind the people who fit suspension upgrades, engine tunes, or superchargers before ever learning to get the most out of their car in stock form -- but that's another discussion. But obviously the vast majority of M3 owners fit that description, and they undoubtedly don't give a damn that I roll my eyes at how they choose to spend their money and use their cars -- nor should they.

I personally don't care what badge is on the car. If Kia made this car and it was as good I imagine this GT4 is, then I'd be seriously considering a Kia. By the same token, if I were to drive this thing and decide that it wasn't worth $100K, then I would simply cross it off my list; it doesn't get special consideration from me just because it's a Porsche. And as far as poser appeal in terms of buying to impress others, I'm currently 28 years old, so I stand a much better chance of non-enthusiasts thinking disparagingly of me for having a car like this than I do of people being impressed, so that definitely isn't my motivation. Plus I'm already married, which removes the primary target demographic of having a status car.

[radiantm3]

No point in arguing with Petros on this. He stated he'd rather buy a GTR. Those are one of the numbest, lifeless cars to drive. Proves that all he cares about is the power/performance per dollar ratio. I think only guys who spend a lot of time at the track can truly appreciate cars like the GT4. A car like this and under 3000lbs is just a dream.

[Petros]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

No point in arguing with Petros on this. He stated he'd rather buy a GTR. Those are one of the numbest, lifeless cars to drive. Proves that all he cares about is the power/performance per dollar ratio. I think only guys who spend a lot of time at the track can truly appreciate cars like the GT4. A car like this and under 3000lbs is just a dream.

I spend a lot of time on the track. I prefer to be the guy getting the point by than the one giving it. So, have you driven a GTR in order to decide it is numb and lifeless?

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by Petros

I spend a lot of time on the track. I prefer to be the guy getting the point by than the one giving it. So, have you driven a GTR in order to decide it is numb and lifeless?

Yup on multiple occasions. I have friends who drive stock boxster spyders faster than all the gtr's I've seen at the track. I have no doubt the gt4 is going to be ridiculously fast on track.

[elim11]

I think the OP hit all the right points. This car is seriously calling my name. I wonder how the dealer markup will be (if there is one) and how well it will hold its value compared to the gt3. The 997 GT3 seems to hold its value quite well.

[Hujan]

I don't quite understand the "it's just a Cayman" thought process. Much of what makes a 911 special is incorporated into this car. A sub-3,000 lb., mid-engined car with the power of the old 997.2 GT3, with the aero of the current GT3 is nothing to sneeze at.

I also don't get the bitching about the six-figure price tag once optioned. It's like you're comparing an optioned Cayman GT4 to a base GT3. Once you option the GT3, it's going to be substantially more than the optioned Cayman GT4.

As others have said, the only hangup for me is the lack of a PDK. Having driven and enjoyed the DCT in my M3, I don't miss the 6MT and would prefer the PDK since I would DD this car. It's just the practical realities of growing up and having a wife who will drive the car on occasion. I do understand Porsche's logic, though, in making the GT4 their raw, 6MT, "driver's car," and the GT3 their ultimate track assassin.

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by Hujan

I don't quite understand the "it's just a Cayman" thought process. Much of what makes a 911 special is incorporated into this car. A sub-3,000 lb., mid-engined car with the power of the old 997.2 GT3, with the aero of the current GT3 is nothing to sneeze at.

I also don't get the bitching about the six-figure price tag once optioned. It's like you're comparing an optioned Cayman GT4 to a base GT3. Once you option the GT3, it's going to be substantially more than the optioned Cayman GT4.

As others have said, the only hangup for me is the lack of a PDK. Having driven and enjoyed the DCT in my M3, I don't miss the 6MT and would prefer the PDK since I would DD this car. It's just the practical realities of growing up and having a wife who will drive the car on occasion. I do understand Porsche's logic, though, in making the GT4 their raw, 6MT, "driver's car," and the GT3 their ultimate track assassin.

Well it is a cayman. Also a 911 is rear engine and a cayman is mid engined FYI.