Official S65 Rod Bearing Condition Example Thread

[IamFODI]

Originally Posted by BimmerRob08

Damn that’s pretty worn down fur that low miles. Mine is an 08 and made it to 100K. I’ve been told that the later model bearing by a shop I had mine done in LA, that later models actually have a higher fail rate than the copper bearings. Not sure if that is fact but the shop definitely knows what they are doing all these years so I find that alarming. Glad you got them done man.

These are the later-style bearings for this engine. You can tell from the color, but also the grooves along the surface of the bearing. Those grooves are still there in the pic you're referencing. The only sign of "wear" is the discoloration, which is superficial – a normal thing for some bearing alloys. So, those bearings are actually in great shape.

If you saw that kind of discoloration on an earlier-style bearing for this engine, it'd mean the top layer was worn through and you were seeing the intermediate copper layer. So, it's understandable that people think these are worn. But that level of wear never happens on these bearings. As in, we haven't yet seen a single one of these bearings showing copper after anything like normal use, whereas the older style bearings used to show copper all the time.

The "more engine failures with later models" thing comes from soon after the switch to these updated bearings, and it's unclear what was causing that. Since then, they seem to have been holding up much better than the old ones.

[BimmerRob08]

Originally Posted by IamFODI

These are the later-style bearings for this engine. You can tell from the color, but also the grooves along the surface of the bearing. Those grooves are still there in the pic you're referencing. The only sign of "wear" is the discoloration, which is superficial – a normal thing for some bearing alloys. So, those bearings are actually in great shape.

If you saw that kind of discoloration on an earlier-style bearing for this engine, it'd mean the top layer was worn through and you were seeing the intermediate copper layer. So, it's understandable that people think these are worn. But that level of wear never happens on these bearings. As in, we haven't yet seen a single one of these bearings showing copper after anything like normal use, whereas the older style bearings used to show copper all the time.

The "more engine failures with later models" thing comes from soon after the switch to these updated bearings, and it's unclear what was causing that. Since then, they seem to have been holding up much better than the old ones.

Very interesting. I thought they looked bad but I see what you are saying and I agree as I looked back at your pictures. My bearings, I’ve posted them back in September, definitely had copper showing and one bearing was starting to cavitate. Luckily the journals were not scratched. Thankfully I got them in time. Hopefully the new bearings I got done will last the life of the engine. Got them done at MRF engineering and they did an great job. Time will tell now.

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by BimmerRob08

Finally was able to get my Rod Bearings done. No. 3 top bearing was starting to cavitate. All my journals looked good. Definitaly some copper showing and my last oil sample had shown a slight increase in copper also. My M3 made it to 99,450 miles. Also motor mounts were trash. I drove it on a two day road trip to OC to get them done as no one in my rural area can be trusted with doing this job on a BMW. lol.

Also, a MASSIVE shout out and props to Malek and his dad at MRF engineering. They did an excellent job. I had to trust I was able to head back to N. Nevada on a two day trip after a large job as this and my M3 with no problems and it ran like a champ!

What brand of replacement rod bearings and bolts did you choose to go with?

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by JohnnyBeagle

2011 E90 M3 w/ 74,560 miles
I bought it at 70,854 and ran HPL 5W50 with ceratec additive. Unknown history before.

What brand of replacement rod bearings and bolts did you choose to go with?

[BimmerRob08]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

What brand of replacement rod bearings and bolts did you choose to go with?

I went with MRF Engineering in Irvine, CA. They use ARP bolts and the bearings are their product. I think was Mahle clevit with some coating they have have, don’t remember sure details but they are not BE nor King bearings.

[abrahamm4]

Hi guys, first of all I apologize for my English, I use a translator. I have an M3 E92 with 172,000 km. I want to do rod bearing maintenance. I recently bought an ARP 201-6001 bolt kit to install with an ACL standard bearing kit. Is this combination reliable? In Spain they tell me to install OEM bolts and the latest version of OEM bearings. Are these ARP bolts reliable? Are the ACL bearings good? Unfortunately, in Spain it is impossible to get a BE-bearings kit. Thank you very much for your opinion.

[Assimilator1]

Originally Posted by IamFODI

These are the later-style bearings for this engine. You can tell from the color, but also the grooves along the surface of the bearing. Those grooves are still there in the pic you're referencing. The only sign of "wear" is the discoloration, which is superficial – a normal thing for some bearing alloys. So, those bearings are actually in great shape.

I just had a closer look at them, I can't see (all of) the micro grooves in the dark patches in the top bearings, can you?
I would say it's at least possible those grooves have been worn down (without polishing those bearings to find out, I don't think we can't know), that said, it's still light wear and hasn't gone through the 'babbit'.

Originally Posted by abrahamm4

Hi guys, first of all I apologize for my English, I use a translator. I have an M3 E92 with 172,000 km. I want to do rod bearing maintenance. I recently bought an ARP 201-6001 bolt kit to install with an ACL standard bearing kit. Is this combination reliable? In Spain they tell me to install OEM bolts and the latest version of OEM bearings. Are these ARP bolts reliable? Are the ACL bearings good? Unfortunately, in Spain it is impossible to get a BE-bearings kit. Thank you very much for your opinion.

I'm not familiar with that ARP rod bolt kit, we usually use the ARP 2000 material rod bolts.
ACL bearings are decent enough bearings, I have them in my M3 as BE bearings were silly money in the UK. But my ACL bearings are a mixed and hand measured set to achieve the same bearing clearances as the BE v1 bearings.
It's possibly not a good idea to stick with the standard clearance as this is thought to be at least part of the problem (although there is some argument that chemical erosion could be a or the main factor).
Can you not get Mahle bearings in Spain? They now also do a set for the S65 which has slightly increased clearance.

As for the later OEM bearings (tin/alu/copper), whilst they generally fare better than the earlier type bearings (lead/copper), as in we haven't yet seen a set posted here that have worn to copper, they do quite commonly show signs of light surface wear (enough to wear out their micro grooves, but not enough to go through the protective layer). Additional with what limited data we do have in the 'blown engines' thread list, roughly 1/3 of the engines that have blown due to failed rod bearings are engines with the later OEM bearings.
We don't really know how aftermarket bearings compare as we don't have enough data, but the rare times they are pulled out, they usually come out looking good (excluding ones damaged by other factors).
OEM rod bolts are fine, they just a right pain in the neck to install due to their ridiculously complicated torque procedure (which invites mistakes!).

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by abrahamm4

Hi guys, first of all I apologize for my English, I use a translator. I have an M3 E92 with 172,000 km. I want to do rod bearing maintenance. I recently bought an ARP 201-6001 bolt kit to install with an ACL standard bearing kit. Is this combination reliable? In Spain they tell me to install OEM bolts and the latest version of OEM bearings. Are these ARP bolts reliable? Are the ACL bearings good? Unfortunately, in Spain it is impossible to get a BE-bearings kit. Thank you very much for your opinion.

These are the s.k. ARP 625s, one of their prime bolts. FWIW I have them installed on ACL (HX) rod bearings since 7 years/25k miles. All good so far.

[ATLIEN]

Here are my rod bearings coming from a 2011 M3 with 98k miles. I had them done at Thunder Bunny Racing in Greenville, SC. The shop was amazing to work with and they installed my valvetronic exhaust as well. I went with WPC treated rod bearings and ARP bolts. I changed out the motor mounts, serpentine belts and a few other maintenance items.

I’m the third owner and have had the car for six years. I wasn’t sure if they were ever replaced but didn’t want to gamble. From the looks of them, the installer said they looked good. I’ve always warmed up my car when cold and never tracked. Prior to my ownership, the car was based in Miami, FL.

Glad to have it behind me and am ok that they came out ok. TBR was awesome to work with and I highly recommend.

[CSBM5]

Those look great at nearly 100k miles. I definitely second that opinion of Thunder Bunny Racing - outstanding shop, facility and people! BTW, there's an event there tomorrow morning (Saturday) with the former head of BMW manufacturing.

[ATLIEN]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

Those look great at nearly 100k miles. I definitely second that opinion of Thunder Bunny Racing - outstanding shop, facility and people! BTW, there's an event there tomorrow morning (Saturday) with the former head of BMW manufacturing.

I thought so too. The old motor mounts were done with one separating when removed. Car feels much more solid when accelerating and shifting. Thanks for the heads up on the meeting. Good group of folks.

[BadgerPride]

Mine at 94k, original bearing. The car was well taken care of prior to my recent ownership. Not bad to my eyes.



MRF engineering did a fantastic job; really enjoyed the interactions.

[Assimilator1]

Originally Posted by BadgerPride

Mine at 94k, original bearing. The car was well taken care of prior to my recent ownership. Not bad to my eyes.

........

No they're shot, especially uppers 1 & 7, they're both showing a lot of copper (and at least 3 & 5 too to a lesser extent), which means the protective (babbitt) layer has been worn out. That sort of wear shouldn't happen until roughly north of 200k miles (depending on conditions).
But don't worry, that unfortunately is quite 'normal' wear for the S65 with the earlier bearings! And more importantly, you caught them in time .

[Latinskllz]

VAC coated bearing after ~76k miles. I bought my M3 with unknown rod bearing service and to my surprise, they were replaced shortly after vehicle was purchased.

Anyhow, MPorium replaced with BE Spec bearings.

[spammysammich]

Originally Posted by Latinskllz

VAC coated bearing after ~76k miles. I bought my M3 with unknown rod bearing service and to my surprise, they were replaced shortly after vehicle was purchased.

This is exactly what properly clearanced bearings should look like instead of the hat full of smashed assholes we’re used to seeing in this thread. Anything else is unacceptable in my opinion.

[Assimilator1]

Originally Posted by Latinskllz

VAC coated bearing after ~76k miles. I bought my M3 with unknown rod bearing service and to my surprise, they were replaced shortly after vehicle was purchased.

Do you mean you had VAC coated bearings fitted at 76k? Rather than these are the VAC coated bearings after 76k?
I'm assuming so seeing as you said unknown bearing history, but I thought that needed clarifying.
You mentioned "and to my surprise, they were replaced shortly after vehicle was purchased", did the previous owner not have the car long? I just wondered how you knew.
Would be good to know what those 'old' replacement bearings were [edit, Googling the numbers I see SP1512HX is a VAC number (thanks to Greeneggs . So I guess you meant VAC bearings changed at 76k then?] and at least roughly what mileage they'd done. Perhaps it could be estimated from dates?

[Latinskllz]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

Do you mean you had VAC coated bearings fitted at 76k? Rather than these are the VAC coated bearings after 76k?
I'm assuming so seeing as you said unknown bearing history, but I thought that needed clarifying.
You mentioned "and to my surprise, they were replaced shortly after vehicle was purchased", did the previous owner not have the car long? I just wondered how you knew.
Would be good to know what those 'old' replacement bearings were [edit, Googling the numbers I see SP1512HX is a VAC number (thanks to Greeneggs . So I guess you meant VAC bearings changed at 76k then?] and at least roughly what mileage they'd done. Perhaps it could be estimated from dates?

I suspect these bearings are after 76k miles driven.

Previous owner bought the car with 8700 miles on the odometer back in 3/2017 and mentioned he never replaced the rod bearings. So I’m taking this as original owner changed them.

I’m the 3rd owner.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by Latinskllz

VAC coated bearing after ~76k miles. I bought my M3 with unknown rod bearing service and to my surprise, they were replaced shortly after vehicle was purchased.

So did you replace them, or back in with the used?

[Latinskllz]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

So did you replace them, or back in with the used?

Replaced with BE spec at MPorium

[Assimilator1]

Originally Posted by Latinskllz

I suspect these bearings are after 76k miles driven.

Previous owner bought the car with 8700 miles on the odometer back in 3/2017 and mentioned he never replaced the rod bearings. So I’m taking this as original owner changed them.

I’m the 3rd owner.

Ah got ya, I make it ~74k, but makes no real odds .
Yea you wouldn't think the previous owner would say that if he did have them done! I wish we knew for certain (would've been a very rare entry to my list of aftermarket bearings pulled), they were in excellent condition anyway!

[Latinskllz]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

Ah got ya, I make it ~74k, but makes no real odds .
Yea you wouldn't think the previous owner would say that if he did have them done! I wish we knew for certain (would've been a very rare entry to my list of aftermarket bearings pulled), they were in excellent condition anyway!

Yeah. I get you. I can only speculate that original owner either did them or paid an Indy shop to do them. Did Carfax report services back in 2013?

Anyhow, MPorium found a broken oil pickup bracket bolt in the block, so they had to extract and timesert accordingly.

Glad I had them done anyhow. Peace of mind.

[Charlie123]

2008 M3 57,000 miles.

The shells are stamped “ CL 113 802 E”.

Replaced with BE Bearings.