Custom ECU Tuners

Z K wrote

I really don't see the need to modify the M3's tune... it is fine as is. Also, gains are not huge given the amount of money you put in to get the gains.

A tune on a turbocharged car can easily add 100hp with no hardware changes... that's worth it. To add 10hp on a factory optimized NA engine, it's not worth it. You won't see that difference in quarter mile times or track lap times.

You actually will, put a tuned car with exhaust against a stock one and it will walk it easily.

Even in stock form there are a number of benefits. Earlier software versions were also down on power and efficiency, so this is icing on the cake. The engine does make or hold peak power to 8,600

BPMSport wrote

You actually will, put a tuned car with exhaust against a stock one and it will walk it easily.

Even in stock form there are a number of benefits. Earlier software versions were also down on power and efficiency, so this is icing on the cake. The engine does make or hold peak power to 8,600

I'm just mentioning on a stock car - the effect of a tune on a completely stock car.

I had messaged you regarding purchasing/performing a 240E factory update for my car years ago. You could not do it so I ended up buying the equipment and flashing it myself.

Z K wrote

BPMSport wrote

You actually will, put a tuned car with exhaust against a stock one and it will walk it easily.

Even in stock form there are a number of benefits. Earlier software versions were also down on power and efficiency, so this is icing on the cake. The engine does make or hold peak power to 8,600

I'm just mentioning on a stock car - the effect of a tune on a completely stock car.

I had messaged you regarding purchasing/performing a 240E factory update for my car years ago. You could not do it so I ended up buying the equipment and flashing it myself.

It's not that we couldn't do it, it's that we don't do it without the purchase of engine software as there is a potential risk when using cables other than our tuning cables or the factory diagnostic head.

The effect of tuning even on a bone stock car is worthwhile, certainly it's not what you would gain from a turbo car, but there are noticeably improved vehicle dynamics.

BPMSport wrote

It's not that we couldn't do it, it's that we don't do it without the purchase of engine software as there is a potential risk when using cables other than our tuning cables or the factory diagnostic head.

The effect of tuning even on a bone stock car is worthwhile, certainly it's not what you would gain from a turbo car, but there are noticeably improved vehicle dynamics.

I don't understand. Can you not flash factory DME software via your BPM cable? Then just send a BPM cable with a factory file instead of a tune. I would have been happy to pay for such a service.

Regardless, this was 10 years ago. I able able to get the update last week when I did it myself.

Z K wrote

BPMSport wrote

It's not that we couldn't do it, it's that we don't do it without the purchase of engine software as there is a potential risk when using cables other than our tuning cables or the factory diagnostic head.

The effect of tuning even on a bone stock car is worthwhile, certainly it's not what you would gain from a turbo car, but there are noticeably improved vehicle dynamics.

I don't understand. Can you not flash factory DME software via your BPM cable? Then just send a BPM cable with a factory file instead of a tune. I would have been happy to pay for such a service.

Regardless, this was 10 years ago. I able able to get the update last week when I did it myself.

Yes, we can do that, but the hardware cost of the cable is so high that it doesn't make sense to waste a tuning cable on a factory update as it can't be reused on another car. For this reason it's included with the tune, but not as a standalone as the cost for the update would be too substantial given the hardware cost. Back then there were no coding cables that would be able to perform this update without bricking the ECU, so that wasn't an option until cables with fixed firmware became available a few years ago. Back then we would have the ECU sent to us with same day turn around for the update.

Here's a good explanation about the firmware from a DME flashing tool:
"Why do I need a special cable? Isn't my regular K+D-CAN cable good enough?
Unfortunately no. The K+DCAN cable (originally distributed by one-stop electronics and subsequently cloned by many Chinese manufacturers over the years) is a clever device that basically takes K-line messages that older BMWs used and translates them into the D-CAN format for use on 2008+ BMWs. This allowed existing software to continue working without having to rewrite anything. Unfortunately, the firmware that was developed by One-stop electronics has a bug that causes some modules on the PT-CAN bus and all modules on the MOST-bus to be programmed with erroneous data. This phenomenon was first described by Mike Benvo in 2012, where he found every 253rd byte is junk data. To my knowledge, they have yet to acknowledge the bug or issue updated firmware. So we have to replace it ourselves or buy a pre-flashed cable."

Question…. I'm considering the install of 292 Schrick Camshafts. In this case, would a custom tune be necessary and why?

Hey Z K, another tuning option is Dinan.

The tune adds 9hp @6000rpm and 8tq @6000rpm, but also really smoothens out the torque/power curve. Increases throttle response. Removes top speed governor, and raises redline from stock 8,400rpm to 8,600rpm.

It's very noticeable, it transforms the driving experience. I highly recommend it.

It may not be as aggressive as the other tunes out here, but it's designed to be super safe for your engine (as Dinan is the only mod/tune company that does not void the BMW warranty), and is emissions legal in all 50 states, so you can easily pass smog.

It's only $199, and you can get it uploaded at any BMW dealership.

… or $299 if you opt to also include the Dinan cable to be able to upload it yourself anytime with a laptop.

I opted to include the cable. The tune gets emailed to you directly from Dinan. You can borrow my Dinan cable if you decide to get it, and save yourself $100. It's super easy to do.


Here are the links to both options:

W/out OBD cable:

https://www.dinancars.com/products/software-tuning/engine-tuning/engine-software/stage-1-engine-software/parts/D900-40M


W/ OBD cable:

https://www.dinancars.com/products/software-tuning/engine-tuning/at-home-flashing-kits/parts/D900-40M-KIT


Btw Dinan also has a DCT tune, which I heard is phenomenal, but I have a 6MT.

Z K wrote

BPMSport wrote

You actually will, put a tuned car with exhaust against a stock one and it will walk it easily.

Even in stock form there are a number of benefits. Earlier software versions were also down on power and efficiency, so this is icing on the cake. The engine does make or hold peak power to 8,600

I'm just mentioning on a stock car - the effect of a tune on a completely stock car.

I had messaged you regarding purchasing/performing a 240E factory update for my car years ago. You could not do it so I ended up buying the equipment and flashing it myself.

I did a dragy test way back in 2018. Bone stock e92 DCT comp carbon roof around 38k miles. California's finest pump 91 craptane.

In roughy the same weather conditions at the same location I ran the 1/4 mile for trap speed twice. First stock. The car did 113.8 mph. Then did the Alpine Stage 1 tune. Not a custom tune but just their generic one. I asked for the custom 8600 fuel cut but that's not what I received. Same 8350 cut as stock. Anyway the car did 115.3 so it picked up 1.5 mph. Maybe 20hp. Might have gotten 116 with higher 8600 fuel cut. Anyway I ditched the tune as I prefer the behavior of how the car drives stock.

Y'all are hilarious.

If you have this much free time I have 3 yards of gravel I need distributed around landscaping in my backyard.

Longboarder wrote

I did a dragy test way back in 2018. Bone stock e92 DCT comp carbon roof around 38k miles. California's finest pump 91 craptane.

In roughy the same weather conditions at the same location I ran the 1/4 mile for trap speed twice. First stock. The car did 113.8 mph. Then did the Alpine Stage 1 tune. Not a custom tune but just their generic one. I asked for the custom 8600 fuel cut but that's not what I received. Same 8350 cut as stock. Anyway the car did 115.3 so it picked up 1.5 mph. Maybe 20hp. Might have gotten 116 with higher 8600 fuel cut. Anyway I ditched the tune as I prefer the behavior of how the car drives stock.

Did you ever consider a different tune? Just out of curiosity, lots of tuners say they adjust for drive ability, but I am not sure where that shows up in the tune, or if it is just adjusting throttle mapping.

I was thinking of going with an Epic stage 1 tune even though I have a stage 2 applicable car. My thought line was, I don't need that extra ~9hp and 7ft/tq if it means that the car wants to drive like a race spec all the time.

I will reach out to Randy and see what he thinks. I am also not sure how the custom logs come into play in this regard either. I know the ECU is good at self adapting, but I will have like a stage 1.5 tune I think. (kidding, but I wonder what else the ECU adjusts for after a tune or if it is generally locked after tune)

DRLane wrote

Y'all are hilarious.

If you have this much free time I have 3 yards of gravel I need distributed around landscaping in my backyard.

This Medical Practitioner OBVIOUSLY does not even have an M3 and is just a dreamer....




do yer own yard work!

jp1984 wrote

Longboarder wrote

I did a dragy test way back in 2018. Bone stock e92 DCT comp carbon roof around 38k miles. California's finest pump 91 craptane.

In roughy the same weather conditions at the same location I ran the 1/4 mile for trap speed twice. First stock. The car did 113.8 mph. Then did the Alpine Stage 1 tune. Not a custom tune but just their generic one. I asked for the custom 8600 fuel cut but that's not what I received. Same 8350 cut as stock. Anyway the car did 115.3 so it picked up 1.5 mph. Maybe 20hp. Might have gotten 116 with higher 8600 fuel cut. Anyway I ditched the tune as I prefer the behavior of how the car drives stock.

Did you ever consider a different tune? Just out of curiosity, lots of tuners say they adjust for drive ability, but I am not sure where that shows up in the tune, or if it is just adjusting throttle mapping.

I was thinking of going with an Epic stage 1 tune even though I have a stage 2 applicable car. My thought line was, I don't need that extra ~9hp and 7ft/tq if it means that the car wants to drive like a race spec all the time.

I will reach out to Randy and see what he thinks. I am also not sure how the custom logs come into play in this regard either. I know the ECU is good at self adapting, but I will have like a stage 1.5 tune I think. (kidding, but I wonder what else the ECU adjusts for after a tune or if it is generally locked after tune)

I just wanted a 8600 fuel cut to be honest and didnt care about the power increase . I can mix some e85 with pump 91 and likely I can see 114-115 traps on the stock ECU but haven't tried as it doesn't matter much to me.

I paired the Alpine tune with the GTS DCT tune. I didnt like the drivability at low speeds and stop and go driving. Also, optimal launches were not achievable. Stock, I can rip 0-60mph in 4.0-4.1 seconds virtually every time (with Euro MDM and Michelin PS4S tires) and stabbing the throttle. With the tunes it was impossible to get these results. Mid 4's was the best I could get and that also bothered me a little. So I went back to stock.

Longboarder wrote

I just wanted a 8600 fuel cut to be honest and didnt care about the power increase . I can mix some e85 with pump 91 and likely I can see 114-115 traps on the stock ECU but haven't tried as it doesn't matter much to me.

I paired the Alpine tune with the GTS DCT tune. I didnt like the drivability at low speeds and stop and go driving. Also, optimal launches were not achievable. Stock, I can rip 0-60mph in 4.0-4.1 seconds virtually every time (with Euro MDM and Michelin PS4S tires) and stabbing the throttle. With the tunes it was impossible to get these results. Mid 4's was the best I could get and that also bothered me a little. So I went back to stock.

This is easier than you may think!

Have you considered ECUWorx to tune your own mss60? That is what I did, It is really easy and it gives you total access to all the tuner options like CEL monitoring, SAP Delete, top speed delete, even lets you cap red lines based on engine temp.

It also lets you raise each gears redline AND (this is for the real pros) change out your rear diff ratio (though I wouldn't mess with that).

It sounds like that could be an option for ya. It is like a .5 tune. Plus you don't have to worry about unknown safety protocols being overwritten and left to chance. I think it was about $80 and the look at my wife's face when I told her I was "making a back up" of my car, so if I break it I can save it, was classic. Those writes make me lose hair each time.

^^^ Tuners HATE this guy!!!!

SilverSlug wrote

Hey Z K, another tuning option is Dinan.

The tune adds 9hp @6000rpm and 8tq @6000rpm, but also really smoothens out the torque/power curve. Increases throttle response. Removes top speed governor, and raises redline from stock 8,400rpm to 8,600rpm.

It's very noticeable, it transforms the driving experience. I highly recommend it.

It may not be as aggressive as the other tunes out here, but it's designed to be super safe for your engine (as Dinan is the only mod/tune company that does not void the BMW warranty), and is emissions legal in all 50 states, so you can easily pass smog.

It's only $199, and you can get it uploaded at any BMW dealership.

… or $299 if you opt to also include the Dinan cable to be able to upload it yourself anytime with a laptop.

I opted to include the cable. The tune gets emailed to you directly from Dinan. You can borrow my Dinan cable if you decide to get it, and save yourself $100. It's super easy to do.


Here are the links to both options:

W/out OBD cable:

https://www.dinancars.com/products/software-tuning/engine-tuning/engine-software/stage-1-engine-software/parts/D900-40M


W/ OBD cable:

https://www.dinancars.com/products/software-tuning/engine-tuning/at-home-flashing-kits/parts/D900-40M-KIT


Btw Dinan also has a DCT tune, which I heard is phenomenal, but I have a 6MT.

I considered the Dinan. Thanks for offering to use your cable. I would probably have taken your offer if I hadn't gotten my 241E update.

As I said, I went the OEM route and flashed it myself. My cost is about $200 for the cable/charger etc. and some hours of research and testing to get it working. I figure I can code other stuff as well with the equipment rather than just purchase an engine tune. Looking into a CIC retrofit and adding some other features as well now.

Going from my original 80E to a 240/241E factory tune really changed the car. Low and mid rpm is much more responsive, smooth and the car is easier to drive. Even my idle is smoother without rpm dips.

I'm sure Dinan is fine but OEM is the safest as it has to work in all conditions for all cars. I'm on track every other month so I'm not looking for max power - I want max reliability.

jp1984 wrote

This is easier than you may think!

Have you considered ECUWorx to tune your own mss60? That is what I did, It is really easy and it gives you total access to all the tuner options like CEL monitoring, SAP Delete, top speed delete, even lets you cap red lines based on engine temp.

It also lets you raise each gears redline AND (this is for the real pros) change out your rear diff ratio (though I wouldn't mess with that).

The rear diff ratio and everything what is related to this can´t be changed in the engine ecu software there. Its always adapting and you can read the adaptations and see the actual output.
So if you change the ratio with different rear diff hardware the ecu knows this pretty fast itself.

Ah gotcha, make sense.

And ya the reason I went with Dinan (a few years back) was because it was deemed to be the safest for our engines (not to say other tunes are dangerous), but it was designed with that in mind.

It came in a Stage 1, 2 or 3… Depending on what other (now sadly discontinued) Dinan goodies you also bolted on. Dinan offered a lightened flywheel, different LSD's (3.10, 3.45 or 3.62), etc.

I was considering upgrading to another more aggressive tune now, but will likely just stay with the Dinan one I have, given that I live in California, and smog stations out here now scan for tunes (Dinan can still pass).

Meanwhile some of the other tunes apparently don't get the O2 sensors ready, so impossible to smog in any state (from my understanding).

You didn't happen to dyno your car before/after the tune, did you?

We have retuned probably over 250 DINAN tuned cars, including a bunch of stroker motors, S65 and S85. We just tuned a 4.6 Stoker with an ESS blower a few days ago for a customer that recently acquired the car. He didn't even know it had a stroker, and the seller of the car didn't know it did either - Talk about a pleasant surprise!

Every single person that has switched has had nothing but glowing feedback. Dinan actually downgrades your software to an older version, so if you went in with 240E, you'll get the car back with something older

If you're thinking of going that route, i promise you that there is a much better option - here are some threads (some from a decade ago) that touch on the subject:

My experience moving from a Dinan's "Racing" to BPM Sport tune:
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=825012

BPM Tune 1, Dinan Tune 0:
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=780338

BPMSport tune + DCT ... before, after, before, after:
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1323513

Dinan, Emissions Inspections and BPM Tune:
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1429930

Switching from Dinan to BPM:
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1579174

BPMSport Cable, Software, and Tune Review:
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=816790

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60-m5-e61-m5-touring-discussion/280738-new-tune-bpmsport.html

Worth getting 240E BMW software with DINAN Stage II? [#10]

You often get what you pay for, and a "deal" often doesn't turn out to be in the end. It pains me how many people line up for a $500 tune and think they are getting a bargain when in actuality they are buying software that underwent little to no actual development. But these "tuners" love selling you on burbles and flames, and could care less about in depth technical reasons for why things are calibrated a certain way. Some haven't used a dyno or even have any technical data on their software but this doesn't stop customers from throwing money at them to save an insignificant amount compared to their 10-20K engine. With regard to safety, I would say that our software is actually safer than other software out there as we have enhanced the built in protections for rising temperatures and do not modify critical protection systems.

Many offer features that we pioneered - in a sense copying is the best form of flattery. The implementation of some of these features is lackluster at best. Then some tuners offer E85 mix files which shows a lack of understanding of the fundamentals of an adaptive ECU. They tell customers its ok just switch fuels while and go through multiple iterations of software with no logical understanding of what's going on as subsequent revisions correct for "corrections" the ECU is performing. Its a free for all.. and people wonder why they have drivability issues…

I think we are likely one of the only tuners that don't touch the pedal response map. We don't needlessly modify maps like this to make the car falsely feel faster, in actuality it makes the car more jittery, and less controllable.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink

BPMSport wrote

You often get what you pay for, and a "deal" often doesn't turn out to be in the end. It pains me how many people line up for a $500 tune and think they are getting a bargain when in actuality they are buying software that underwent little to no actual development. But these "tuners" love selling you on burbles and flames, and could care less about in depth technical reasons for why things are calibrated a certain way. Some haven't used a dyno or even have any technical data on their software but this doesn't stop customers from throwing money at them to save an insignificant amount compared to their 10-20K engine. With regard to safety, I would say that our software is actually safer than other software out there as we have enhanced the built in protections for rising temperatures and do not modify critical protection systems.

Many offer features that we pioneered - in a sense copying is the best form of flattery. The implementation of some of these features is lackluster at best. Then some tuners offer E85 mix files which shows a lack of understanding of the fundamentals of an adaptive ECU. They tell customers its ok just switch fuels while and go through multiple iterations of software with no logical understanding of what's going on as subsequent revisions correct for "corrections" the ECU is performing. Its a free for all.. and people wonder why they have drivability issues…

I think we are likely one of the only tuners that don't touch the pedal response map. We don't needlessly modify maps like this to make the car falsely feel faster, in actuality it makes the car more jittery, and less controllable.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink

Having owned many cars in the past and having nearly all of them tuned in some way or other, I've been through many tuners. It's enough that I just don't want to deal with tuners. I've had terrible experiences including a "custom dyno tune" from a well known Japanese tuner who a shop flew to the USA from Japan to tune cars. It was a complete re-map using a standalone ECU with no base map. That looked good on paper but blew up my tuned SR20DET engine when I drove on the highway.

I have had flash tunes from Road Race Enginnering, Dinan, APR, Revo, COBB, 034 motorsports, Bootmod3 and GIAC on my various cars. Each of them make more power but none of them ran as an OEM car runs. Always some kind of weirdness or quirk.

Here's a few recent issues I've had with tuning on my turbocharged cars:

My APR tune on my VW made so much power, the transmission would not shift due to torque limits being exceeded. A transmission flash fixed that but then it shifted so hard and rough, it was hard to drive. My Dinan tune was a plug in box on my BMW F30. That worked ok at first but the DME learned around it and threw check engine lights because of the modified sensor readings it was sending. A Audi Revo tune was a throttle on off switch and never felt right - I returned it a few days after install. They were able to flash me back to stock and refund me. GIAC in SoCal had some issues for my car but Garrett worked with me to produce a custom flash for my car on the dyno requiring multiple flashes and testing. Bootmod3, the off the shelf tune had issues on CA 91 octane, I had to do multiple logs and they sent a custom detuned file for me.

I have never had a smooth experience with any aftermarket tuner. Oh, and of course none of these tunes will pass CA smog now.

Z K wrote

Having owned many cars in the past and having nearly all of them tuned in some way or other, I've been through many tuners. It's enough that I just don't want to deal with tuners. I've had terrible experiences including a "custom dyno tune" from a well known Japanese tuner who a shop flew to the USA from Japan to tune cars. It was a complete re-map using a standalone ECU with no base map. That looked good on paper but blew up my tuned SR20DET engine when I drove on the highway.

I have had flash tunes from Road Race Enginnering, Dinan, APR, Revo, COBB, 034 motorsports, Bootmod3 and GIAC on my various cars. Each of them make more power but none of them ran as an OEM car runs. Always some kind of weirdness or quirk.

Here's a few recent issues I've had with tuning on my turbocharged cars:

My APR tune on my VW made so much power, the transmission would not shift due to torque limits being exceeded. A transmission flash fixed that but then it shifted so hard and rough, it was hard to drive. My Dinan tune was a plug in box on my BMW F30. That worked ok at first but the DME learned around it and threw check engine lights because of the modified sensor readings it was sending. A Audi Revo tune was a throttle on off switch and never felt right - I returned it a few days after install. They were able to flash me back to stock and refund me. GIAC in SoCal had some issues for my car but Garrett worked with me to produce a custom flash for my car on the dyno requiring multiple flashes and testing. Bootmod3, the off the shelf tune had issues on CA 91 octane, I had to do multiple logs and they sent a custom detuned file for me.

I have never had a smooth experience with any aftermarket tuner. Oh, and of course none of these tunes will pass CA smog now.

Try Epic or ESS.

I passed smog with a Dinan tune a couple months ago.

I'm curious how the BMW 241E tune stacks up to the Dinan tune… tempted to Dyno each on the same day and compare the torque curves.