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04-20-2021, 10:53 AM | #2245 | |
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This is just simply a statistics problem. Some people get lucky and have a loose engine. Some people get unlucky and have a tight engine. There is no way to tell unless you take the bearings out and look (and without a full teardown, there is no way to actually measure). At that point, it is best to put in bearings that will at least guarantee a worst case minimum clearance that is closer to 0.001"/" than the 088/089 or 702/703 bearings were.
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04-20-2021, 11:29 AM | #2246 |
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Rod bearing theories and elbows, everybody's got at least one.
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04-20-2021, 12:00 PM | #2247 | |
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The data is not a theory. Statistics is not a theory either. Statistics is a harsh mistress who enjoys causing pain and suffering - just ask any radio systems engineer about the reality of statistics... King, ACL, Clevite and Glyco all specify a minimum of 0.001"/" for any high performance application. Reputable engine builders follow this advice. The people who came up with the BE bearings are responsible for building race engines used in IMSA, Indy and NASCAR.
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04-20-2021, 01:53 PM | #2248 | |
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Re possible lower rate of LCI bearing failures, well that might be the case, and I haven't found any LCI bearing photos which are showing copper, but many show significant wear, not to mention some LCI engines have blown up as a result of rod bearings (see link below). But regardless the risk is still there, and it's still worth changing the rod bearings, as you concluded too . Theirs the 'blown motors, rod bearing failure S65 registry' which has more data. Additionally I cleaned up, updated and categorised the list here Green-eggs Not sure if the above linked thread is the one you were thinking of, but the last posts were ~5mths ago, and I last updated my list then too. [edit] I've just done a little update to my list there adding in pre LCI vs LCI RB failures (from 'confirmed' and 'likely' lists). I had to exclude 2010 MY as that could be either bearing type. Between the 2 RB failed lists, 42 were pre LCI engines, and 25 were LCI engines. Some reports didn't include the year at all . I think my list is up to date, but if anyone knows of any other blown S65s then LMK!
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Oil analysis for finding wearing rod bearings?. Collation of oil analysis reports with some rod bearing photos for the M3's S65. My categorisation of pulled rod bearings in the rod bearing condition thread. My updated 'Blown engines' list. Last edited by Assimilator1; 04-20-2021 at 02:56 PM.. |
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04-20-2021, 09:43 PM | #2249 | |
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EDIT: You're the guy with the oil analysis thread, maybe you can verify that last comment or not. His Blackstone oil analysis showed LEAD=100, IRON=33. Any idea how that compares to some of the other higher values? Last edited by Green-Eggs; 04-20-2021 at 09:56 PM.. |
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04-21-2021, 01:03 PM | #2250 |
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Oh him again, lol. I don't see him listed in my thread, unless he used a completely unrelated name.
But perhaps you were thinking of the 'Oil Analysis report' thread? (I'll look through it in a minute). 100ppm lead!? Wow that's seriously high! (I'll look through my thread for that too, although my thread is only a portion of the OA reports posted here and at m3cutters). [edit] Added pb and cu levels for each report (where available), a pb 100 ppm would be the 2nd highest if it was in my thread!
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Oil analysis for finding wearing rod bearings?. Collation of oil analysis reports with some rod bearing photos for the M3's S65. My categorisation of pulled rod bearings in the rod bearing condition thread. My updated 'Blown engines' list. Last edited by Assimilator1; 04-21-2021 at 02:05 PM.. |
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04-21-2021, 02:10 PM | #2251 |
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Rod Bearings replaced at ~51,200 miles. Pre-LCI bearings (car is 2009) ... replaced with BE bearings & BE spec ARP rod bolts. ~2/3 track days at Mid-Ohio. Was daily driven by previous owner & his wife; no notable "warm up procedure" was followed, apart from allowing the RPMs to settle after cold start. Oil changed every 3,000-10,000 miles throughout the car's life.
Last edited by 911r; 04-21-2021 at 02:15 PM.. |
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04-21-2021, 02:31 PM | #2252 | |
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04-21-2021, 02:36 PM | #2253 | |
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I just quickly scanned through the Oil reports thread, I found no bob like name attached to an oil report. Did anyone copy his UOA?
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Oil analysis for finding wearing rod bearings?. Collation of oil analysis reports with some rod bearing photos for the M3's S65. My categorisation of pulled rod bearings in the rod bearing condition thread. My updated 'Blown engines' list. |
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04-21-2021, 02:53 PM | #2254 |
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His actual initials are P.S. Here's the UOA with his personal information removed.
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04-21-2021, 05:44 PM | #2255 |
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How the hell was his viscosity still that high after that many miles?
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04-21-2021, 06:14 PM | #2256 |
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That’s a very good question. My viscosity was 95.7 after a 1k mile change and 90.7 after a 4k change. That doesn’t add up with a 14k mile change on castrol 10w60
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04-22-2021, 10:54 PM | #2257 |
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2011.5 (July build), 83,000 km's or 51,000 miles. Replaced with ACL mixed. Left side bearings are lower, right side upper in order of cyl.
Not too bad imo.
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04-23-2021, 07:37 AM | #2258 |
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Yep, not too bad at all compared to many others at similar mileage. These are the harder tin type post LCI bearings. Were these replaced recently? Just wondering because your signature says the M3s in your stable were sold. Or are these from a new to you 2011.5 M3?
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04-23-2021, 01:44 PM | #2259 |
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LCI, not post LCI, no such thing , LCI=update.
And yea don't look too bad, although the way the light is falling on them makes it hard to see them properly.
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Oil analysis for finding wearing rod bearings?. Collation of oil analysis reports with some rod bearing photos for the M3's S65. My categorisation of pulled rod bearings in the rod bearing condition thread. My updated 'Blown engines' list. |
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04-23-2021, 02:44 PM | #2260 |
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And that is even improper - my LCI 2011 had 088/089 bearings.
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04-23-2021, 03:17 PM | #2261 |
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Okay, let's split some hairs. I'm game. LCI stands for Life Cycle Impulse or, in more basic terms, mid life cycle refresh. My saying "post LCI" just means "after (post) the Life Cycle Refresh".
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04-24-2021, 04:01 AM | #2262 |
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Yep, refresh=update, it's not after the refresh, it is the refresh (I know what post means).
Original/pre LCI version 2007-2010 LCI version 2010-2013 There is no post LCI version. It's only a minor issue, but saying post LCI is stating a 3rd version, which their isn't of course. Let's not add to the confusion .
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Oil analysis for finding wearing rod bearings?. Collation of oil analysis reports with some rod bearing photos for the M3's S65. My categorisation of pulled rod bearings in the rod bearing condition thread. My updated 'Blown engines' list. |
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04-24-2021, 08:28 AM | #2263 | |
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04-24-2021, 12:47 PM | #2264 | ||
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04-24-2021, 01:57 PM | #2265 | |||
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04-24-2021, 06:18 PM | #2266 |
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So if there is an "Original/pre LCI version" there should be a a post LCI version? Or do we have a pre but not a post?
Perhaps the confusion stems from semantics whereby LCI is an event in the car maker's model lifecycle - but that same event often yields different part specifications. Consequently, LCI can be used synonymously to describe either the event in time or a new part specification (version) associated with the life cycle event (pre or post event).
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