Official S65 Injector Failure Thread

[smokinjoe64]

Originally Posted by B58

The S65 injectors are very cheap to replace. Imagine you had to replace injectors on a N54... https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...-13538616079kt

WAIT - WHAT!?! ~$6K for 6 injectors
That a mistake or WTF is up wit N54 parts market/prices...?

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by B58

The S65 injectors are very cheap to replace. Imagine you had to replace injectors on a N54... https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...-13538616079kt

Wow you could buy a used Corolla for the price of 6 N54 injectors.
.

[spammysammich]

Now you know why n54 cars always get kicked down the road to the next sucker, nobody can afford to make them right after years of deferred maintenance.

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by spammysammich

Now you know why n54 cars always get kicked down the road to the next sucker, nobody can afford to make them right after years of deferred maintenance.

Who would have thunk it. I had no idea the n54 cars were such money pitts. It's a great POV that belongs on the "Why do so many people lease (rent) BMWs" thread. Just a thought...
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2116940

[smokinjoe64]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Wow you could buy a used Corolla for the price of 6 N54 injectors.
.

+1
...yeah that with a large fancy coffee on the 'slow drive' home

[B58]

Originally Posted by smokinjoe64

WAIT - WHAT!?! ~$6K for 6 injectors
That a mistake or WTF is up wit N54 parts market/prices...?

It’s nice having cheap port style injectors and not direct injectors like the N54. I think people recommend adding the secondary fuel filter that NRW and such make on the driver side to help the life of the injectors.

[0-60Motorsports]

its basically any cars with the bmw index 6-12 injectors etc......glad i changed mine on the X5M to index 12's when the price was cheap to normal

[smokinjoe64]

Originally Posted by B58

It’s nice having cheap port style injectors and not direct injectors like the N54. I think people recommend adding the secondary fuel filter that NRW and such make on the driver side to help the life of the injectors.

Damn what a difference port v direct prices
Early`24 replaced all (8) injectors [ ~$460]; same PM installed NRW fuel filter.

[Fezza]

so stuck injector experts, I recently came across a video on YT and was wondering if it's a good/easy way to check if our injectors are leaking and on their way out (watch at 21:30):

obviously not the one that's gushing but the #3 that dripping in the video. if so then it would be a pretty easy way to check the health of our injectors.

[IamFODI]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Who would have thunk it. I had no idea the n54 cars were such money pitts. It's a great POV that belongs on the "Why do so many people lease (rent) BMWs" thread. Just a thought...
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2116940

AFAICT, thanks to the N54, the E9x 335i is the first non-M 3-Series that wasn't necessarily easier to own than its M3 counterpart.

[RocketyMan]

Originally Posted by smokinjoe64

Damn what a difference port v direct prices
Early`24 replaced all (8) injectors [ ~$460]; same PM installed NRW fuel filter.

It's not because these are direct injectors on the N54, it's because they're the piezo type vs solenoid type. The N55 went back to the solenoid type--circa under $100 per injector.
The piezo type injectors can do crazy things like up to 5 calculated injections per stroke (or more...?), pressure amplification...etc.

As per the piezo type, there were things wrong with the fuel screens melting, uncontrolled crystal growth...all of which the index 12 were supposed to address. I wonder if the fuel screens melting might be similar issue to the s65 injector screens deteriorating.

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by Fezza

so stuck injector experts, I recently came across a video on YT and was wondering if it's a good/easy way to check if our injectors are leaking and on their way out (watch at 21:30):

obviously not the one that's gushing but the #3 that dripping in the video. if so then it would be a pretty easy way to check the health of our injectors.

Thanks for posting this educational video. We can now actually "see" the issue(s). The gushing injector at the 21min.40s time stamp seems like it would cause more of an instant hydrolock but a dripping injector (also shown the video when the fuel pump is primed) is just as bad and will also cause bent rods and cracked pistons etc. if not also "window" the block. Liquids are incompressible and there is no room in the combustion chamber for un-atomized fuel. Thanks again.
.

[RocketyMan]

Yeah. That injector is straight up open. An easy test for this is to squeeze the rubber hose line after key-off. It should always feel "tight." If you can easily collapse it, I'd be leery of loosing pressure somehow--barring any typical leak down rate.

[Assimilator1]

Originally Posted by RocketyMan

It's not because these are direct injectors on the N54, it's because they're the piezo type vs solenoid type. The N55 went back to the solenoid type--circa under $100 per injector.
The piezo type injectors can do crazy things like up to 5 calculated injections per stroke (or more...?), pressure amplification...etc.

As per the piezo type, there were things wrong with the fuel screens melting, uncontrolled crystal growth...all of which the index 12 were supposed to address. I wonder if the fuel screens melting might be similar issue to the s65 injector screens deteriorating.

Piezo injectors for diesels are much less than that though, unless it's because on petrol engines they have to deal with higher external temperatures??

[HairTooLongToo]

Originally Posted by RocketyMan

Yeah. That injector is straight up open. An easy test for this is to squeeze the rubber hose line after key-off. It should always feel "tight." If you can easily collapse it, I'd be leery of loosing pressure somehow--barring any typical leak down rate.

So you're saying if we had an inline fuel pressure monitor (...maybe right after the DIY inline fuel filter) that could indicate an abnormally low fuel pressure state, we could detect it and perhaps save an engine?

[jvictormp]

I've installed an adittional presssure sensor connected to a pressure display in the cabin. It's good to see how the pressure behaves, and its nuances, like:- When you prime the pump, pressure goes to max (90~92 psi), then drops to 86~87 when pump stops, and keeps dropping in a fast rate (after 20 seconds, it's like 70 psi and going).
- You prime again, and it holds better, 20 seconds it's on 80 psi.
- When engine is hot, prime pressure is kept even better. 84 psi after 20 sec.
Can't say why the difference, but I have a clue about the cause of the drop: there should be a check valve in the pump discharge, and that valve may not have the original tightness, letting some fuel to flow back to tank.

- You can see that, during engine idle, pressure is kept in 42~45 psi. Sometimes you push pedal hard, and pressure goes to 95 psi. Sometimes you don't push hard, but revs to like 4000 rpm, and pressure goes to 75 psi. It keeps oscilating like that as you vary engine speed and load.

In the pictures you can see the original pressure sensor in series with the additional pressure sensor.

[jvictormp]

Originally Posted by RocketyMan

I wonder if the fuel screens melting might be similar issue to the s65 injector screens deteriorating.

Check out the pictures in the post below.

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpo...52&postcount=5

Credits to Abdul

[RocketyMan]

Originally Posted by HairTooLongToo

So you're saying if we had an inline fuel pressure monitor (...maybe right after the DIY inline fuel filter) that could indicate an abnormally low fuel pressure state, we could detect it and perhaps save an engine?

Someone somewhere on this forum had an inline pressure gauge on the fuel rail that was very easily readable when you open the hood.
The idea is that when you turn off the car you can open the hood and look at the residual pressure leak down. If an injector was dripping or stuck open, the residual pressure would read close to zero vs. a healthy system showing residual pressure for a substantial amount of time.

[RocketyMan]

Originally Posted by jvictormp

Check out the pictures in the post below.

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpo...52&postcount=5

Credits to Abdul

Yeah. I've seen this post before. The point being the filter screen has been completely compromised. Could even be the filter screen itself clogging the injector. I'd question the filter screen "melting" by maybe even the ethanol fuel itself. -- surmising.

[chutak]

Originally Posted by RocketyMan

Someone somewhere on this forum had an inline pressure gauge on the fuel rail that was very easily readable when you open the hood.

Maybe NRW?
https://www.nrw-design.com/collectio...51105471496511

Been thinking about pulling the trigger on this fuel rail paired with their filter. However, a fuel pressure gauge on the dash would be a bit more convenient.

[HairTooLongToo]

Originally Posted by jvictormp

I've installed an adittional presssure sensor connected to a pressure display in the cabin. It's good to see how the pressure behaves, and its nuances, like:- When you prime the pump, pressure goes to max (90~92 psi), then drops to 86~87 when pump stops, and keeps dropping in a fast rate (after 20 seconds, it's like 70 psi and going).
- You prime again, and it holds better, 20 seconds it's on 80 psi.
- When engine is hot, prime pressure is kept even better. 84 psi after 20 sec.
Can't say why the difference, but I have a clue about the cause of the drop: there should be a check valve in the pump discharge, and that valve may not have the original tightness, letting some fuel to flow back to tank.

- You can see that, during engine idle, pressure is kept in 42~45 psi. Sometimes you push pedal hard, and pressure goes to 95 psi. Sometimes you don't push hard, but revs to like 4000 rpm, and pressure goes to 75 psi. It keeps oscilating like that as you vary engine speed and load.

In the pictures you can see the original pressure sensor in series with the additional pressure sensor.

Absolutely brilliant! Thanks for sharing your setup and observations. I hope you'll never need it, but given the slow pressure leak down behavior when normal, a wide open failed injector would be immediately noticed with a stopped engine as I'm guessing pressure would to fall to zero within seconds.

[IamFODI]

Apologies if I missed this somewhere in the thread. Given that there's a pressure sensor of some kind from the factory, is fuel pressure not viewable via OBD?