Metal VANOS Cover Failure - MUST READ!

[BenFenner]

The "inexpensive" titanium solution would be to reproduce the CarBahn style cover (giant washer), but in titanium.

[SM2]

I was so paranoid when putting these on. My Originals were completely fine at 65k miles. I check like 20 times to make sure they were connected with SLON.

[Redd]

Originally Posted by BenFenner

The "inexpensive" titanium solution would be to reproduce the CarBahn style cover (giant washer), but in titanium.

I thought about this but was afraid Ti would not hold the bolt tension (it's basically a large washer) like stainless steel would.

[Chrisyphus]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

I didn't mention anything about balance re VANOS covers , just wondered about the inertial load, more so the solid bolt on covers rather than the various clip on ones.

Yeah, I know. Just described the only failure mode (as a result of mass) I could imagine while on the topic.

[Herofmine]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

You got my questions back to front , I was asking who made the valve covers....

This is the vendor LOREADA Official Store
https://a.aliexpress.com/_msd5OCz

Only thing I didn’t like is pain on valve covers cheap.

I did valve covers one side at the time

[THEROK]

Originally Posted by Herofmine

End up picking up valve covers from aliexpress, and compared quality of NRW (they are exactly same quality … local sore has nrw and billet versions for sale)

[IamFODI]

This thread is nightmare fuel.

Pages and pages of utter conviction that the people who produced the S65 are shockingly incompetent in designing and selecting materials for a critical part. Then an engineer posts a wall of text utterly eviscerating that perspective. The "bean counters!" gallery goes quiet, but not a single member admits they were wrong, and within like 5 minutes we're back to "this guy with CAD and a mill designed something better than the M Division did because it feels like it's high quality and I can't move it by hand once it's attached and the original part had a problem one time."

Now we're putting AliExpress parts on an S65 because they totally seem comparable in quality to... the ones produced by a bunch of smart people with CAD and a mill who say their stuff is better than the M Division's.

I feel so, so lucky that we bought our M3 when we did.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by IamFODI

This thread is nightmare fuel.

Pages and pages of utter conviction that the people who produced the S65 are shockingly incompetent in designing and selecting materials for a critical part. Then an engineer posts a wall of text utterly eviscerating that perspective. The "bean counters!" gallery goes quiet, but not a single member admits they were wrong, and within like 5 minutes we're back to "this guy with CAD and a mill designed something better than the M Division did because it feels like it's high quality and I can't move it by hand once it's attached and the original part had a problem one time."

Now we're putting AliExpress parts on an S65 because they totally seem comparable in quality to... the ones produced by a bunch of smart people with CAD and a mill who say their stuff is better than the M Division's.

I feel so, so lucky that we bought our M3 when we did.

lol.

Nailed it.

[BenFenner]

It's a fun summary, but I think it goes more like this:

The factory units are getting brittle over time and causing major problems. Boy would it be nice if we could buy them from BMW so we could replace them every valve cover gasket change! I guess the aftermarket will have to come up with a solution.

Hmm, one of the aftermarket solutions have shown problems themselves, there might be more to this.

Yah, ideally the factory units would have been giant steel washers installed at an earlier step in the manufacturing process, but bean counters be countin' beans.
Barring that, the covers should have been made of long-lived PA46 (or similar) instead of short-lived PA66 (or at least be available as their own part number as mentioned above) but bean counters still be countin' beans.

So, check your covers and if failing then back to the aftermarket you go, armed with more information.

(Then garbage Chinese valve covers enter the chat for no discernible reason.)

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by Herofmine

This is the vendor LOREADA Official Store
https://a.aliexpress.com/_msd5OCz Only thing I didn’t like is pa[y]in[g] on [for] valve covers cheap. I did valve covers one side at the time

When you have 6 months or more of service on the valve covers, could you report back and let us know how about their leak performance (good or bad)? That would be much appreciated. Just an FYI: - The rubber grommets on the OEM style bolts degrade over time, and since the bolt torque spec is relatively low, it has been theorized that the OEM rubber bolt grommets degradation is a contributing factor to valve cover leaks. For this reason silicone grommets and even grommet less bolt upgrade solutions have been developed.
.
https://europowermotorsports.com/pro...bmw-e9x-m3-s65
.
https://www.nrw-design.com/collectio...er-grommet-kit
.

[Herofmine]

Whatever you call it, cheap or otherwise, 80%-90% of your everyday items are made in China. Most vehicle parts, even German BMWs, outsource to China. They stamp “Made in Germany” on products and dealers charge a premium. I personally visited South Korean and Chinese factories that manufacture car parts. I saw “Made in Germany” and “Made in USA” parts being made. When I asked the owner, they said that all of them were made for OEM Benz, BMW, Ford, GM.

The difference between now and before is that China has opened up its market to the world. As a result, those manufacturers have other factories that make aftermarket products and sell them on Alibaba or Express.

Billet aluminum Valve covers are better? Yes!
Is it overkill? Yes!
some cars has even plastic valve covers including some bmw engines….

[Herofmine]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

When you have 6 months or more of service on the valve covers, could you report back and let us know how about their leak performance (good or bad)? That would be much appreciated. Just an FYI: - The rubber grommets on the OEM style bolts degrade over time, and since the bolt torque spec is relatively low, it has been theorized that the OEM rubber bolt grommets degradation is a contributing factor to valve cover leaks. For this reason silicone grommets and even grommet less bolt upgrade solutions have been developed.
.
https://europowermotorsports.com/products/valve-cover-hardware-kit-bmw-e9x-m3-s65
.
https://www.nrw-design.com/collections/e9x-m3/products/s65-valve-cover-grommet-kit
.

Yes, sir, that’s the goal I am the guinne pig for you guys, in case if it will leak in 6 month or year I’ll upgrade to Billet version fuck it!

I used the NRW Gasket kit, but the Europower hardware kit appears more suitable. I might purchase it from them and replace the existing one.

[Assimilator1]

I hope the covers are good and look forwards to your 6 month review

Not nailed it, entirely.

Originally Posted by IamFODI

This thread is nightmare fuel.

Pages and pages of utter conviction that the people who produced the S65 are shockingly incompetent in designing and selecting materials for a critical part. Then an engineer posts a wall of text utterly eviscerating that perspective. The "bean counters!" gallery goes quiet, but not a single member admits they were wrong, and within like 5 minutes we're back to "this guy with CAD and a mill designed something better than the M Division did because it feels like it's high quality and I can't move it by hand once it's attached and the original part had a problem one time."

Now we're putting AliExpress parts on an S65 because they totally seem comparable in quality to... the ones produced by a bunch of smart people with CAD and a mill who say their stuff is better than the M Division's.

I feel so, so lucky that we bought our M3 when we did.

My bad for not saying anything then, so I will, the OEM VANOS cover is cheap nasty shit! lol. True they lasted at least 10-15 yrs, and maybe they'll outlast at least some of the ally covers, but it's still cheap rubbish.
That said, if BM were selling them for even £100, maybe £200, I'd buy them in a heartbeat and change them say every 10 yrs!
Oh and the OEM covers have failed much often than once, maybe you were exaggerating there

And I already called into question the aliexpress cam covers
But maybe it'll be ok??

[BenFenner]

Originally Posted by Herofmine

I am the guinne pig for you guys

You're waaaaay too late there. We've seen hundreds (or maybe even thousands by now) of members of the community purchasing these things over the years and reporting back. Hopefully this off-topic discussion can continue elsewhere.

[spammysammich]

Originally Posted by IamFODI

This thread is nightmare fuel.

Pages and pages of utter conviction that the people who produced the S65 are shockingly incompetent in designing and selecting materials for a critical part. Then an engineer posts a wall of text utterly eviscerating that perspective. The "bean counters!" gallery goes quiet, but not a single member admits they were wrong, and within like 5 minutes we're back to "this guy with CAD and a mill designed something better than the M Division did because it feels like it's high quality and I can't move it by hand once it's attached and the original part had a problem one time."

Now we're putting AliExpress parts on an S65 because they totally seem comparable in quality to... the ones produced by a bunch of smart people with CAD and a mill who say their stuff is better than the M Division's.

I feel so, so lucky that we bought our M3 when we did.

Lol you’ll never convince me that plastic wasn’t a bean counter decision. But I’m totally comfortable with being in the wrong on this after years of having my suggestions being voted down at work only to be vindicated later after parts suggestions I made are implemented. In my case it was always purchasing and accounting that found their “better” way. And yes this is me projecting. 😂

[IamFODI]

Originally Posted by spammysammich

I’m totally comfortable with being in the wrong on this after years of having my suggestions being voted down at work only to be vindicated later after parts suggestions I made are implemented. In my case it was always purchasing and accounting that found their “better” way. And yes this is me projecting. 😂

Oof. That sounds like a lot of pointless aggravation. Sorry you've had to deal with that at all, let alone repeatedly.

[03m_plus]

I just went through all the various vanos cover options since I was getting the valve covers replaced. I chose the carbahn washers as my solution. Simple and cost effective.

[Chrisyphus]

Originally Posted by IamFODI

This thread is nightmare fuel.

Pages and pages of utter conviction that the people who produced the S65 are shockingly incompetent in designing and selecting materials for a critical part. Then an engineer posts a wall of text utterly eviscerating that perspective. The "bean counters!" gallery goes quiet, but not a single member admits they were wrong, and within like 5 minutes we're back to "this guy with CAD and a mill designed something better than the M Division did because it feels like it's high quality and I can't move it by hand once it's attached and the original part had a problem one time."

Eh, I'll never fault anyone for being wrong about stuff like this- If it weren't for my work on our S62 timing chain deflection rail upgrade, I would have absolutely assumed metal would be better for an application like this.

I dont think anyone owes the community a " hey I was wrong" unless theyre in a position like mine- as someone whose express purpose for engaging with the community is to sell either my product, or our organization as a whole, if I am off the mark, I owe it to you all to say so. IMO, as long as JoeForumMember69420 stops arguing once shown receipts, that's enough.

The one caveat to that, though, is I feel like I kill a lot of threads... and that is a bummer because I didn't want to ruin the conversation lol.. I wanted to be a part of it

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by 03m_plus

I just went through all the various vanos cover options since I was getting the valve covers replaced. I chose the carbahn washers as my solution. Simple and cost effective.

Here's link for the S65 cam timing tool. You'll need it to install those Carbahn washer style vanos spring covers. The tool kit might even be on sale at around $299. Good luck with the upgrade.
.
https://www.freedomracing.com/b11997...l-set-alt.html

[03m_plus]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Here's link for the S65 cam timing tool. You'll need it to install those Carbahn washer style vanos spring covers. The tool kit might even be on sale at around $299. Good luck with the upgrade.
.
https://www.freedomracing.com/b119970kit-timing-tool-set-alt.html

Thanks for the info! I actually had it installed by EAS for a fair price.

The money saved from the product can be but towards the install process and no worries going forward.

[Assimilator1]

Originally Posted by Chrisyphus

Eh, I'll never fault anyone for being wrong about stuff like this- If it weren't for my work on our S62 timing chain deflection rail upgrade, I would have absolutely assumed metal would be better for an application like this.

I don't think anyone owes the community a "hey I was wrong" unless they're in a position like mine- as someone whose express purpose for engaging with the community is to sell either my product, or our organization as a whole, if I am off the mark, I owe it to you all to say so. IMO, as long as JoeForumMember69420 stops arguing once shown receipts, that's enough.

The one caveat to that, though, is I feel like I kill a lot of threads... and that is a bummer because I didn't want to ruin the conversation lol.. I wanted to be a part of it

Lol, well, you could always revive the rod bearing argument

[IamFODI]

Originally Posted by Chrisyphus

Eh, I'll never fault anyone for being wrong about stuff like this- If it weren't for my work on our S62 timing chain deflection rail upgrade, I would have absolutely assumed metal would be better for an application like this.

I dont think anyone owes the community a " hey I was wrong" unless theyre in a position like mine- as someone whose express purpose for engaging with the community is to sell either my product, or our organization as a whole, if I am off the mark, I owe it to you all to say so. IMO, as long as JoeForumMember69420 stops arguing once shown receipts, that's enough.

The one caveat to that, though, is I feel like I kill a lot of threads... and that is a bummer because I didn't want to ruin the conversation lol.. I wanted to be a part of it

I realize now I probably made your post seem a lot more confrontational than it was, or than how you meant it. My apologies. To anyone reading on, my interpretation is my own.

Completely agree there's nothing wrong with being wrong. That's just being human.

What separates men from boys is what we do when we find out we were wrong or missing something.

We're all here because the tide of community opinion means something. Every post here contributes to that tide, not just for us (screw us anyway – we're just a bunch of egos colliding) but for others who might read this thread for useful information. And, increasingly, for the LLMs that'll scrape this thread and make who-knows-what out of it.

On this topic, you might be a lot more credible than most of us here, and that does make it a bit more important for you to be visible in your intellectual honesty. But the rest of us have the same obligation, if for no other reason than that most readers of this thread will be unable or too lazy to understand why (and how, and to what extent) your opinion is worth more than the rest of ours.

The idea that the M Division threw bullshit plastic on this part just to be cheap should never have passed the smell test. The sheer obviousness of using a metal cover instead should have made us conclude that WE were probably the ones who were missing something. The fact that the plastic sometimes ages out and cracks should never have licensed an oh-shit-anything-must-be-better-than-this reaction.

But here we are. Because of course we are. This is what normal human brains do. Again, nothing wrong with that – as long as we change course as warranted.

And if all it takes to kill a thread is to suggest that maybe one of the world's greatest engine builders might have had a point, the thread deserves to die.