TA5R users, how are these wheels holding up at the track?

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by omgzirra_exe

ANYWAYS TLDR;
We start with blanks tortured overseas, then we machine them, smash them in drum-fatigue and curb-strike tests, X-ray and dye-penetrant inspect them, geek out in CAD and FEA with live gauge data, earn JWL, VIA and TUV approvals, and finally carve in scallops and I-beams for extra lightness (IF requested, adds a lot of $$ though). A lot of work for pot hole to hurt my feelings later.

I'm going to start making carbon fiber wheels. One requirement with purchase is to give me all of your information so I can take out a life insurance policy on the buyer. I'll be rich. Do you think those would sell?

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I'm going to start making carbon fiber wheels. One requirement with purchase is to give me all of your information so I can take out a life insurance policy on the buyer. I'll be rich. Do you think those would sell?

I know a group of people who would love cheap CF wheels, they are the mustang people. some of them even have life insurance! sadly my current company life insurance policy only covers the cost of a used E92 M3 :/ with 150k miles.

[a5m]

omgzirra_exe Since we're on a wheel geek out high, I figured I'd ask: how about powdercoating forged wheels? Yay or nay? Can the cure temps affect the metallurgy?

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by a5m

omgzirra_exe Since we're on a wheel geek out high, I figured I'd ask: how about powdercoating forged wheels? Yay or nay? Can the cure temps affect the metallurgy?

I know this wasn't directed at me - but no, no concerns.
All your favorite forged brands are powdercoating, typically in house, not painting wheels.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by a5m

omgzirra_exe Since we're on a wheel geek out high, I figured I'd ask: how about powdercoating forged wheels? Yay or nay? Can the cure temps affect the metallurgy?

Perfectly fine.

Originally Posted by tsk94

I know this wasn't directed at me - but no, no concerns.
All your favorite forged brands are powdercoating, typically in house, not painting wheels.

This is correct.

Many shops and brands powder coat their forged wheels in house rather than use paint. Powder coating is more cost effective, but it requires precise control of the oven profile and cure temperature. Typically 180 to 200 °C (356 to 392 °F) held for 10 to 15 minutes. At those temperatures 6061-T6 aluminum remains well below its overaging threshold, so there is no measurable change to tensile strength or yield. Poor thermal control, however, can cause orange peel or under-cure defects in the coating.

For cast wheels the recommended cure temperature and duration can differ because the alloy chemistry and heat-treatment history vary by supplier. Always follow the material provider’s specification to avoid altering mechanical properties. Though in practice most suppliers won’t share that data, so you may need to work from industry averages. Ultimately the durability of any wheel finish depends on the quality of the base material and the precision of the coating process.

Traditional paint still delivers the most durable finish and better resistance to chips and UV fade. From a metallurgy standpoint powder coating is safe and is used by all the major forged-wheel manufacturers.

[a5m]

Originally Posted by omgzirra_exe

This is correct.

Many shops and brands powder coat their forged wheels in house rather than use paint. Powder coating is more cost effective, but it requires precise control of the oven profile and cure temperature. Typically 180 to 200 °C (356 to 392 °F) held for 10 to 15 minutes. At those temperatures 6061-T6 aluminum remains well below its overaging threshold, so there is no measurable change to tensile strength or yield. Poor thermal control, however, can cause orange peel or under-cure defects in the coating.

For cast wheels the recommended cure temperature and duration can differ because the alloy chemistry and heat-treatment history vary by supplier. Always follow the material provider’s specification to avoid altering mechanical properties. Though in practice most suppliers won’t share that data, so you may need to work from industry averages. Ultimately the durability of any wheel finish depends on the quality of the base material and the precision of the coating process.

Traditional paint still delivers the most durable finish and better resistance to chips and UV fade. From a metallurgy standpoint powder coating is safe and is used by all the major forged-wheel manufacturers.

So I'm confused. While yes the manufacturer uses powdercoating, I understand it's incorpated into the annealing and aging process that forged wheels go through, where they are heated up. So while they're hot they stick the powdercoating step in there. So heating the wheel up again after the fact can over-age the metal and make it brittle?

Again I'm only regurgitating what I've been reading all day today, so not sure what to make of all this.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by a5m

So I'm confused. While yes the manufacturer uses powdercoating, I understand it's incorpated into the annealing and aging process that forged wheels go through, where they are heated up. So while they're got they stick the powdercoating step in there. So heating the wheel up again after the fact can over-age the metal and make it brittle?

Again I'm only regurgitating what I've been reading all day today, so not sure what to make of all this.

To keep it simple.

Think of the wheel like a perfectly cooked steak.

First you sous-vide it low and slow (the wheel’s main heat-treat) to lock in juiciness and tenderness. Then you sear it quickly on high heat just to get a crust (the powder-coat bake). That quick, hot crust won’t overcook the inside. Your steak stays tender, just like the wheel stays strong.

Fact: I’m actually cooking a steak right now, reverse sear style.

[a5m]

Originally Posted by omgzirra_exe

To keep it simple.

Think of the wheel like a perfectly cooked steak.

First you sous-vide it low and slow (the wheel’s main heat-treat) to lock in juiciness and tenderness. Then you sear it quickly on high heat just to get a crust (the powder-coat bake). That quick, hot crust won’t overcook the inside. Your steak stays tender, just like the wheel stays strong.

Fact: I’m actually cooking a steak right now, reverse sear style.

Well now you just got me hungry, thanks.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by a5m

Well now you just got me hungry, thanks.

I literally had no other way to explain it 😆

[bipp]

Originally Posted by a5m

omgzirra_exe Since we're on a wheel geek out high, I figured I'd ask: how about powdercoating forged wheels? Yay or nay? Can the cure temps affect the metallurgy?

From very anecdotal investigation, it seems that someone on Rennlist reached out to BBS and was told to not powdercoat BBS E88 centers: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-gt2-...l#post18238262

Then again, this could be because of liability reasons from BBS's end or because Rennlisters need permission from Jorg Bergmeister before farting in their $9000 LWBs mid lap.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by bipp

From very anecdotal investigation, it seems that someone on Rennlist reached out to BBS and was told to not powdercoat BBS E88 centers: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-gt2-gt3-forum/1306887-bbs-e88-barrels-any-colour-options.html#post18238262

Then again, this could be because of liability reasons from BBS's end or because Rennlisters need permission from Jorg Bergmeister before farting in their $9000 LWBs mid lap.

You can powdercoat technically, but it is not recommended, especially for something like the E88 centers.

The issue is not that aluminum cannot handle heat. It is that forged wheels like the E88 have a specific grain structure and strength profile from the factory heat treatment. Reheating to powdercoat temps, usually 375 to 400°F for 20 to 40 minutes, can slightly reduce the strength because the metal starts to relax or over-age.

Note: Typical powdercoating cure temps are around 350°F to 400°F, depending on the powder type. Most wheel coaters use ~375°F to 390°F for about 10 to 20 minutes at temperature (plus ramp-up time). Some powders can cure as low as 325°F or as high as 425°F, but 400°F is usually the upper safe limit.

BBS faces, including the E88, are produced using a die forging process similar to what Rays Engineering uses. This process creates a very dense, directional grain structure optimized for strength and light weight. Once you reheat the metal, that grain structure can start to relax, especially in designs that prioritize minimum weight like the E88.

On heavier street wheels, it is usually not a big deal. But on lightweight racing faces like the E88, which are already known to crack occasionally even straight from BBS, any loss of strength is a risk. Plus, BBS will not back you up if a refinished face fails and the face cracks.

And it is not like you need approval from anyone to powdercoat. You are just doing it at your own risk if the wheel gets damaged.

So you will hear mixed opinions because some people have done it without issues. But technically, the concern is valid