M-DCT driving videos

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by footie

Am I the only person a little sad that this thread like many others deteriorate into an argument of egos and who's the smartest, most intelligent.



Lets get back on track here, SMSgt B has provided some insight as to how the DCT feels when shifting and how quick it is, his remarks are slightly different to those of Gasman which leads me to believe that this jerk/surge is very much up to your own perception of what you feel.

I'm checking my dealer today to see if they have or when they are getting in their first DCT M3 to see for myself and give an objective opinion from someone with experience on the technology and see if this surge is solely because of the extra power/torque available in the M3 over what the GTi have.

Will keep you posted as to my results.

Sorry
I was actually going to say something about that yesterday but
1. I have been guilty of doing the same on this forum in the past and
2. I didn't want Swamp or that new guy to start messing with me.

Ego is the right word. If you guys like to read check out the book by Eckhart Tolle "A New Earth - Awakening Your Life's Purpose. An Excellent Book!

[M3NTAL]

I apologize for getting off topic. But like Footie said, I'm not going to back down when I believe in something, and when someone assaults what I know is right, I'm not the type of person to let that happen. I was told once that it always takes a stronger man to turn the other cheek than it does to fight back, I normally use that to aide situations in my life, but unfortunately I didn't here.

So again, this goes to everyone, especially swamp, I'm sorry about what happened, but like I stated before all this ensued, hate does not belong on this forum or any forum, and it WON'T happen again with me, I promise you that, and you can hold me to it. We all are here because of a reason, that reason is the M3, it's a great car, and while our opinions differ on it, we should be united with love for it, not divided in hatred for each other.( I know that sounds kinda gay but whatever) For pete's sake we don't even know each other! So, swamp, this goes to you, I AM SORRY, and please do look when I post again, and I assure you nothing like what happened here will happen again, in fact as I said, I'm a very positive person and I guarantee that I will have nothing but a positive attitude, and show nothing but positivity to anyone and everyone on this forum.

So, lets get back to the discussion at hand, I'm willing to pay alot of money to the first person to get to S6 and give us a review!

The fact of the matter is my order has DCT and won't change.

Thanks

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by M3NTAL

I apologize for getting off topic. But like Footie said, I'm not going to back down when I believe in something, and when someone assaults what I know is right, I'm not the type of person to let that happen. I was told once that it always takes a stronger man to turn the other cheek than it does to fight back, I normally use that to aide situations in my life, but unfortunately I didn't here.

So again, this goes to everyone, especially swamp, I'm sorry about what happened, but like I stated before all this ensued, hate does not belong on this forum or any forum, and it WON'T happen again with me, I promise you that, and you can hold me to it. We all are here because of a reason, that reason is the M3, it's a great car, and while our opinions differ on it, we should be united with love for it, not divided in hatred for each other.( I know that sounds kinda gay but whatever) For pete's sake we don't even know each other! So, swamp, this goes to you, I AM SORRY, and please do look when I post again, and I assure you nothing like what happened here will happen again, in fact as I said, I'm a very positive person and I guarantee that I will have nothing but a positive attitude, and show nothing but positivity to anyone and everyone on this forum.

So, lets get back to the discussion at hand, I'm willing to pay alot of money to the first person to get to S6 and give us a review!

The fact of the matter is my order has DCT and won't change.

Thanks

You just earned respect on this forum. At least from me. That was very big of you.

As you said back to the topic at hand.

[dechoong]

Originally Posted by M3NTAL

I know all DCT transmissions aren't the same. The transmission of this type I've driven include VW's (GTi), Lamborghini E-Gear (in both generations of Murcielago and in the Gallardo), Veyron's, Audi's (RS4, R8), Bentley (Continental GT, and mostly in the Flying Spur, as my dad owns one), Ferrari's SMG (Challenge Stradale, Enzo, Fiorano, soon in the Scuderia), BMW's gearboxes(E46, M5, M6), and finally the AMG gearboxes from Mercedes (CLK63, CLS63, CL63, C63, S65, SL65, and E63)

So... I kinda know what I'm talking about. While all DCT-type gearboxes are different, the basic premise remains the same; smooth, fast shifts.

Only the Golf GTi and Bugatti Veyron you've listed are dual clutch system. GTi's system is developed by Borg Warner whereas Veyron is by Ricardo.

Lamborghini's E-Gear on both Murcielargo and Gallardo is the typical single clutch system (electro-hydraulically shifted manual) pioneered by Magneti Marelli. Audi RS4 doesn't come with pedal shift and R8's system is the same as Lamborghini's. Bentley Continental GT is a purely automatic transmission with pedals, not unlike BMW's steptronic. All Ferrari's are using the single clutch system developed by Magneti Marelli. BMW's SMG II on E46 M3s is also a single clutch system developed in-house, whereas those on regular 325i are by Magneti Marelli. M5 and M6 are also single clutch systems. All AMGs are purely automatic with pedals, much like what Bentley is doing but more performance biased.

[M3NTAL]

Originally Posted by dechoong

Only the Golf GTi and Bugatti Veyron you've listed are dual clutch system. GTi's system is developed by Borg Warner whereas Veyron is by Ricardo.

Lamborghini's E-Gear on both Murcielargo and Gallardo is the typical single clutch system (electro-hydraulically shifted manual) pioneered by Magneti Marelli. Audi RS4 doesn't come with pedal shift and R8's system is the same as Lamborghini's. Bentley Continental GT is a purely automatic transmission with pedals, not unlike BMW's steptronic. All Ferrari's are using the single clutch system developed by Magneti Marelli. BMW's SMG II on E46 M3s is also a single clutch system developed in-house, whereas those on regular 325i are by Magneti Marelli. M5 and M6 are also single clutch systems. All AMGs are purely automatic with pedals, much like what Bentley is doing but more performance biased.

I was told by my dad's salesman in Chicago(Bentley Gold Coast) that the E-Gear transmission, along with performance Audi models, and Bentley, were dual-clutch, because the VW group shares the Borg-Warner developed transmission between brands. That pisses me off. Yeah, I'm actually going to call that moron. That's like a form of false advertising. If it was the selling point of the car, he'd be in deep trouble.

[dechoong]

Originally Posted by M3NTAL

I was told by my dad's salesman in Chicago(Bentley Gold Coast) that the E-Gear transmission, along with performance Audi models, and Bentley, were dual-clutch, because the VW group shares the Borg-Warner developed transmission between brands. That pisses me off. Yeah, I'm actually going to call that moron. That's like a form of false advertising. If it was the selling point of the car, he'd be in deep trouble.

Most car salesman do not know much about what they are selling, especially on the technical information .

Electro-hydraulically shifted manual with single clutch is defnitely not suitable on luxury saloon due to their jerky shift characteristics in auto mode... it was a big flop on Maserati Quattroporte before they changed it to a regular auto. But the main reason the current VW DSG by Borg-Warner wasn't used is because it cannot handle the Continental GT's huge torque. Audi has recently developed a new 7 speed longitudinal layout dual clutch transmission which can safely handle 400lb/ft of torque and engine speed up to 9000rpm (if I remember correctly), so expect to see it soon on R8 and Gallardo.

[M3NTAL]

I called him, and he said

"They are dual-clutch gearboxes!"

I told him with some other words too, that he better do some research before lying to customers who are paying upwards of $200k for a car.

[dechoong]

Originally Posted by M3NTAL

I called him, and he said

"They are dual-clutch gearboxes!"

I told him with some other words too, that he better do some research before lying to customers who are paying upwards of $200k for a car.

Poor guy doesn't know what he's selling. Both the Continental GT and Flying Spur (effectively a 4 dr Continental GT) use the 6 speed auto by ZF.

http://www.bentleymotors.com/Corpora...spx?infid=1106

[dillon733]

Originally Posted by M3NTAL

To start off though, I don't believe you should be making comments demeaning someone's intelligence due to an opinion they hold. It's not a positive way to contribute to a forum or an open discussion. Just because someone has a different opinion than yours doesn't mean that they are 1) Wrong 2) Not as smart as you are 3) Deserving of your belittling arrogant attitude. You seem to have this everywhere I look on this forum, and quite frankly it's pathetic, just because you don't like something or disagree with someone does not give you the right to bring everyone down, and shoot remarks at them. Like I have stated before I hold no grudges and if you look besides my posts directed to you I'm a very positive member. I respect everyone, and I think you should do the same.

Alot of the info and insight you provide is very worthwhile and mostly correct, I just don't see the need for the bitterness.

Footie, I apologize for involving you, I don't have anything against you, and as evident by our posts we share generally the same opinion. My action was intended to point out the bitterness of Swamp, not you.

Second I'm not sure how jerk and surge are the same. When I, and generally I would have to say most people, think of JERK I think of a harsh experience, somewhat violent in nature. When I think of surge it generally means something that is constantly positive. SO, how does this reply to the discussion at hand? Like I stated, if it is a "surge" it refers to the nearly un-interrupted acceleration of the car, due to SMOOTH and FAST gear-changes. These gear-changes are evident in the cars I mentioned.

I also do know that all DCT transmissions are not alike, but they still share the same concept, and that concept IMO would be defeated if they purposely induced harshness into the gear-changes. Now will the shifting be more sudden to where all you feel is surge, then more surge (different however, due to the gear and rpm), I believe the answer is yes. Like Footie stated, I think this has been taken out of context.

So, Swamp I believe you and I agree, but the word jerk, I don't think should be used or will be used to describe how the gearbox changes gears.

I know all DCT transmissions aren't the same. The transmission of this type I've driven include VW's (GTi), Lamborghini E-Gear (in both generations of Murcielago and in the Gallardo), Veyron's, Audi's (RS4, R8), Bentley (Continental GT, and mostly in the Flying Spur, as my dad owns one), Ferrari's SMG (Challenge Stradale, Enzo, Fiorano, soon in the Scuderia), BMW's gearboxes(E46, M5, M6), and finally the AMG gearboxes from Mercedes (CLK63, CLS63, CL63, C63, S65, SL65, and E63)

So... I kinda know what I'm talking about. While all DCT-type gearboxes are different, the basic premise remains the same; smooth, fast shifts.

almost every car that you named does NOT have a dual clutch trans they are either auto or smg

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by M3NTAL

I apologize for getting off topic. But like Footie said, I'm not going to back down when I believe in something, and when someone assaults what I know is right, I'm not the type of person to let that happen. I was told once that it always takes a stronger man to turn the other cheek than it does to fight back, I normally use that to aide situations in my life, but unfortunately I didn't here.

So again, this goes to everyone, especially swamp, I'm sorry about what happened, but like I stated before all this ensued, hate does not belong on this forum or any forum, and it WON'T happen again with me, I promise you that, and you can hold me to it. We all are here because of a reason, that reason is the M3, it's a great car, and while our opinions differ on it, we should be united with love for it, not divided in hatred for each other.( I know that sounds kinda gay but whatever) For pete's sake we don't even know each other! So, swamp, this goes to you, I AM SORRY, and please do look when I post again, and I assure you nothing like what happened here will happen again, in fact as I said, I'm a very positive person and I guarantee that I will have nothing but a positive attitude, and show nothing but positivity to anyone and everyone on this forum.

So, lets get back to the discussion at hand, I'm willing to pay alot of money to the first person to get to S6 and give us a review!

The fact of the matter is my order has DCT and won't change.

Thanks

I owe my apologies to you and to the board as well. It was big of you to make the post above and I do appreciate it. I agree with all of what you say. I am totally willing to continue to have more pleasant and fruitful discussions and heck even debates with you. If we had met in a bar and had a instead of getting off on the wrong foot here I'm sure things would have been totally different.

We can certainly share our passion for BMWs and that we are both in the M-DCT club.

Regards.

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by dechoong

Only the Golf GTi and Bugatti Veyron you've listed are dual clutch system. GTi's system is developed by Borg Warner whereas Veyron is by Ricardo.

Yup, I missed noting that the Veyron is a true DC system. Of course like any gear head I knew it but thanks for keeping me honest. That car is just in a league by itself so sometimes I do not even think about it.

[footie]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Yup, I missed noting that the Veyron is a true DC system. Of course like any gear head I knew it but thanks for keeping me honest. That car is just in a league by itself so sometimes I do not even think about it.

swamp,

It might be in a league of it's own (I'm sure that's a film title) but the basic design of all this systems are very similar indeed. I can't say for sure but I believe any changes in shift behaviour will be coming from the software and nothing else.

I still reckon what my mate said about no noticeable improvement in performance will prove to be true though how such a thing could be proven is beyond me.

[M3NTAL]

I test drove a 6MT for the 3rd time yesterday. The dealer said they'd sell it to me for a nice discount since it has 200+ miles on it. But I dunno. The only automatic I own is my gas-drunk SUV, so normally I can adapt pretty quick between manual cars, but there's just something about that gearbox that I don't like. It's not smooth what so ever when you're driving it gently, and to smooth it out it feels like you have to force the shifter, which I don't like, forcing usually = wear and tear on the car. This thing had every option available from the factory except DCT. But that sealed it's fate of staying on the showroom floor.

I did however change my interior choice though.

DCT FTW!

[Crea]

MB do have a Dual Clutch box now. its launched on the new SL63, pretty much their standard 7spd auto with a dual clutch instead of a torque converter.

its probably going to make its way to all other AMG 63 cars in the future. replacing the current speedshift torque converter 7spd system.

[Keto]

Originally Posted by Crea

MB do have a Dual Clutch box now. its launched on the new SL63, pretty much their standard 7spd auto with a dual clutch instead of a torque converter.

its probably going to make its way to all other AMG 63 cars in the future. replacing the current speedshift torque converter 7spd system.

Link? The SL63 isn't even a model. Nothing on their website lists a dual-clutch system.

EDIT: Ahh, google is your friend. It's a 2009. But it's the "MCT" technology which is not a true dual clutch like DCT/DSG/PDK if I remember correctly. It's just marketing hype (it is faster than their previous automatic and does not have a torque converter), thus all the press releases call it "dual clutch."

EDIT #2: Yep, more googling confirms. MB still behind the curve here.

[KonigsTiger]

SL63 is most certainly a model, it exists!! And it does have a dual clutch system! Here you go:

MONTVALE, NJ – Mercedes-Benz is unveiling a fourth member of its iconic SL sports car family – the SL63 AMG. Perhaps the sportiest SL roadster ever, the new SL63 AMG is powered by a 6.2-liter, 518-hp, all-AMG V8 engine that’s coupled to a newly developed MCT transmission.

Featuring an innovative start-up clutch that replaces a conventional torque converter, the seven-speed MCT (for multi-clutch technology) transmission combines the direct connection of a manual gearbox with the lightning-quick automatic gear shifts of a Formula 1 race car. Topping off the SL chassis is an even more agile AMG sports suspension based on the Mercedes-Benz ABC active suspension.

[Jack28]

Wow great vid's! Thanks for doing this! Man the shifts are fast in Manual mode!

[reinaldo335]

that SL63 looks great, it should be A M3 KILLER!!

[Keto]

Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico

SL63 is most certainly a model, it exists!! And it does have a dual clutch system! Here you go:

MONTVALE, NJ – Mercedes-Benz is unveiling a fourth member of its iconic SL sports car family – the SL63 AMG. Perhaps the sportiest SL roadster ever, the new SL63 AMG is powered by a 6.2-liter, 518-hp, all-AMG V8 engine that’s coupled to a newly developed MCT transmission.

Featuring an innovative start-up clutch that replaces a conventional torque converter, the seven-speed MCT (for multi-clutch technology) transmission combines the direct connection of a manual gearbox with the lightning-quick automatic gear shifts of a Formula 1 race car. Topping off the SL chassis is an even more agile AMG sports suspension based on the Mercedes-Benz ABC active suspension.

Yeah, the MCT is not nearly the equivalent of DSG/DCT/PDK. Try again. Reread my post as well, it was edited well before your reply.

[gorun]

Originally Posted by Keto

Yeah, the MCT is not nearly the equivalent of DSG/DCT/PDK. Try again. Reread my post as well, it was edited well before your reply.

MCT is MB's version of the SMG but worked over in order to give much smoother shifts! Its not a double clutch system.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico

SL63 is most certainly a model, it exists!! And it does have a dual clutch system! Here you go:

MONTVALE, NJ – Mercedes-Benz is unveiling a fourth member of its iconic SL sports car family – the SL63 AMG. Perhaps the sportiest SL roadster ever, the new SL63 AMG is powered by a 6.2-liter, 518-hp, all-AMG V8 engine that’s coupled to a newly developed MCT transmission.

Featuring an innovative start-up clutch that replaces a conventional torque converter, the seven-speed MCT (for multi-clutch technology) transmission combines the direct connection of a manual gearbox with the lightning-quick automatic gear shifts of a Formula 1 race car. Topping off the SL chassis is an even more agile AMG sports suspension based on the Mercedes-Benz ABC active suspension.

Gorun and Keto are right. MCT is a SMG-like transmission with only one clutch. I reckon the term 'multi-clutch technology' is intentionally chosen and clearly deceptive.


Best regards, south

[dechoong]

Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico

SL63 is most certainly a model, it exists!! And it does have a dual clutch system! Here you go:

MONTVALE, NJ – Mercedes-Benz is unveiling a fourth member of its iconic SL sports car family – the SL63 AMG. Perhaps the sportiest SL roadster ever, the new SL63 AMG is powered by a 6.2-liter, 518-hp, all-AMG V8 engine that’s coupled to a newly developed MCT transmission.

Featuring an innovative start-up clutch that replaces a conventional torque converter, the seven-speed MCT (for multi-clutch technology) transmission combines the direct connection of a manual gearbox with the lightning-quick automatic gear shifts of a Formula 1 race car. Topping off the SL chassis is an even more agile AMG sports suspension based on the Mercedes-Benz ABC active suspension.

It is still a 7 speed auto with a new wet plate clutch by Sach.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/...ontent-block=1