Track forum general chit chat.

[roastbeef]

i want to do canards too. front of the car is going to look like a catfish. lol

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

i want to do canards too. front of the car is going to look like a catfish. lol

Especially with that “catfish” grey color. Would definitely have to change your username.

[StripclubDJ]

Becuz rain tires

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by StripclubDJ

Becuz rain tires

Cheater lol

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by jktx

Especially with that “catfish” grey color. Would definitely have to change your username.

Roastbeef—>friedfish lol

[StripclubDJ]

It POURED rain on the way here
Dodged death on the truck and trailer


Get to the track
One wet sesh and now dead ass dry

[PrimeBMW]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

nice. did you have a trackday with speeddistrict?

i kinda want the gooseneck because i have a fantasy of renting a big ass car carrier and taking a bunch of socal track bros to cota or something...
kinda sound silly, but i want the clearance lights, too.

No. Northern California Racing Club day.

[gmx]

Dumped diff fluid at 28k miles. Don't believe it's had anything done since the run in service. 99.9% certain dealers here use FM stuff since owners are fussy.
Anyway, replaced with 80w-140 syntrax which the datasheet shows is slightly thicker at operating temp than 75w-140. No 75w in the country. Feels much better, closer to an actual LSD. No noise so far as well.
Really have no idea how people drive these things with FM rubbish.

Next up, throw this trash GKN visco lock in the bin

[kyippee]

Just scored my car including the upcoming changes for Bimmer Challenge - 9.5 points and in B3. Looked up 2018 Laguna Seca times for B3 and it looks like I have a shot at hanging with you guys!

Where does one register? I'd like to drop by the Laguna Seca event in June. Will likely be there the weekend before for SpeedSF with their challenge as well.

Also, redpriest where/how did you get the cage in your car that enables putting wheels in rear seat area? Not sure if it was your E46 or E92, but Brandon at P-Tech was telling me about it.. pretty sweet thought for the future.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by kpewpew

Just scored my car including the upcoming changes for Bimmer Challenge - 9.5 points and in B3. Looked up 2018 Laguna Seca times for B3 and it looks like I have a shot at hanging with you guys!

Where does one register? I'd like to drop by the Laguna Seca event in June. Will likely be there the weekend before for SpeedSF with their challenge as well.

When you sign up online for the Speed Ventures event, one of the signup pages gives you the option to sign up for the Challenge (it’s a couple check-boxes). You do need to make sure you sign up for a timing transponder during online signup.

Then, during your check-in on the morning of the event, you will submit two forms. One is the normal Tech Inspection sheet (which you could have already printed at home and filled out). The other is a Bimmer Challenge-specific sheet that you have to fill out that morning during registration. You’ll check a bunch of boxes detailing your car’s setup. You’ll total up the points on that sheet. Your point total on that sheet will determine your Class. You turn that in and you’re in Bimmer Challenge!

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by kpewpew

Just scored my car including the upcoming changes for Bimmer Challenge - 9.5 points and in B3. Looked up 2018 Laguna Seca times for B3 and it looks like I have a shot at hanging with you guys!

Where does one register? I'd like to drop by the Laguna Seca event in June. Will likely be there the weekend before for SpeedSF with their challenge as well.

Also, redpriest where/how did you get the cage in your car that enables putting wheels in rear seat area? Not sure if it was your E46 or E92, but Brandon at P-Tech was telling me about it.. pretty sweet thought for the future.

Can someone clarify the difference between Time Attack and HPDE?

I mean, on every HPDE event I try to get my time to be best lap. What would one do differently on a Time Attack event?

[kyippee]

Thanks dogbone !

rhyary for me, the big difference is:
- all of us in the TT sessions are knowing participants so we're driving a bit harder then we normally would. Passing is generally more aware on both ends.
- we grid by lap time, with two qualifying sessions before the actual TT session. Helps a lot with traffic
- Outlap has a pace car for warm up, first green lap is no passing, to create gaps between cars
- everybody has a transponder on, so no timing glitches to worry about
- friendly competition vs learning in traffic

This is all based on SpeedSF challenge. I have a full session video here where you can see all my not so pretty laps as well lol

The GTR spin in turn 1, during the first green was pretty exciting.

Examples of the timing reporting available online on their site- you can see how I'm mucking up some laps just trying to figure out how to piece together a good lap. (I'm Ken Y) also my competition who took 1st and 2nd in S3 was Dirty Mango and Gary. Pretty big gap, they're great drivers and have fully tracked out S2000s

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by dogbone

When you sign up online for the Speed Ventures event, one of the signup pages gives you the option to sign up for the Challenge (it’s a couple check-boxes). You do need to make sure you sign up for a timing transponder during online signup.

Then, during your check-in on the morning of the event, you will submit two forms. One is the normal Tech Inspection sheet (which you could have already printed at home and filled out). The other is a Bimmer Challenge-specific sheet that you have to fill out that morning during registration. You’ll check a bunch of boxes detailing your car’s setup. You’ll total up the points on that sheet. Your point total on that sheet will determine your Class. You turn that in and you’re in Bimmer Challenge!

How does Bimmer Challenge handle hp mods?

For example my buddy Ken Orgeron would be classed in B1 which I believe is the same as you. However your two cars in NASA would be separated by two classes. His in TT3 - 10 lbs/hp and yours I think you estimated in TT1 which is 6 lbs/hp. The typical time difference between each class is about 2 seconds. So about 4 seconds between TT3 and TT1.

Just curious.

[rhyary]

>> Passing is generally more aware on both ends.
I enjoyed your video.
What are the passing rules?

[kyippee]

Originally Posted by rhyary

>> Passing is generally more aware on both ends.
I enjoyed your video.
What are the passing rules?

Thanks! It's open passing but I still err on the side of caution!

We're all out there to push a bit harder but still have a safe time, so not trying to do w2w level tactics or aggression. Some of the drivers there do w2w but do the TT for fun

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by kpewpew

Thanks! It's open passing but I still err on the side of caution!

We're all out there to push a bit harder but still have a safe time, so not trying to do w2w level tactics or aggression. Some of the drivers there do w2w but do the TT for fun

Sorry, more questions
Is TT = Time Attack?

What is TT = 2? Time Trial?

Trying to learn the lingo....

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by rhyary

Sorry, more questions
Is TT = Time Attack?

What is TT = 2? Time Trial?

Trying to learn the lingo....

They are the same

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by rhyary

Can someone clarify the difference between Time Attack and HPDE?

I mean, on every HPDE event I try to get my time to be best lap. What would one do differently on a Time Attack event?

Short answer:
An HPDE is not a competitive event. A Time Attack (also called Time Trial or TT) is a competitive event.

Long answer:
An HPDE, meaning High Performance Driving Event (or Education), is specifically not a competitive event. This has certain technical meanings when it comes to insurance and stuff like that. Some event organizers like Hooked On Driving and BMW CCA don't provide timing and generally discourage it. Again, I suspect this has to do with insurance and liability. Other event organizers do provide timing options, like Speed District and Speed Ventures [in California]. But all of that stuff is considered "Practice". During an HPDE session, typically, everyone is tossed out on track together all at once, usually up to 35 cars. When signing up, you choose a run group based on driver experience. Most organizers have at least three experience levels to choose from: Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced. Some have up to 6 groups to choose from. You are not guaranteed open track or clean laps. You are simply provided track time---usually 20 minute sessions. Each organizer structures their events differently. Some groups will have 8 run sessions in a day; other have 4 sessions. It's up to everyone on track to sort out how their session goes as far as dealing with traffic. Most HPDE event organizers do not place everyone in the pre-grid by lap times. It takes quite a bit of staff people to do that, and everyone has to show up early to grid. It's a pretty big commitment so most HPDE event organizers don't do it. There's no prizes for being the fastest or winning points towards some longer series. You're out there driving and having fun and learning and that's it. People joke all the time about winning an HPDE. It's just a joke.


A Time Attack event is an organized competitive event. First, you have to categorize the Class in which your car will compete. At a Time Attack, it is EXPECTED that you will have open laps to run as fast as you can. The competition sessions are setup where through practice sessions, they acquire times on everyone, and then for the Officially timed competition runs, they put everyone in the pre-grid in order by lap time. Then they release everyone with several second gaps in between each car. If it all works properly, the car in front of you is faster, and the car behind you is slower, and the gaps they provide should allow you at least 2-3 completely clean laps before the structure of the session starts breaking down. Now, many things can affect this----cars breaking down, cars going off track and coming back on, cars who were running slower tires earlier but fast tires now---meaning they are not slower than you anymore, some guy on the warmup who is crawling around the track and screws the whole field behind him because everyone gets bunched up......so it's not perfect. But it works fairly well most of the time. And being an official competition, there are prizes. And there could be a season's worth of competitions to attend, meaning you are competing across multiple events at different tracks and getting points for each event you attend based on your performance. These points are all added up in Series points competition. This is particularly challenging because you can't just be fast at one track. A series that visits 8 tracks or unique configurations during the season can be quite demanding if you want to win the series.


Now, that being said, there are hybrid situations. For example, The Speed Ventures Bimmer Challenge series is considered a time attack event.....HOWEVER....it's not really run like a traditional Time Attack event. They embed the Bimmer Challenge (BC) within a regular HPDE day. So, you are not guaranteed open/clean laps at a BC event. It is possible that you could go the whole day without a single clean lap if you were unlucky. But Speed Ventures DOES go through the effort of placing cars in the pre-grid by lap times. And it works pretty darn well if you are one of the faster cars in a run group. So, while the BC is not a traditional time attack event, it is fun and challenging and requires a bit of strategy to get your clean laps in. To be honest, I do wish that BC could get it's own run group within the HPDE day. But I can see how it would be tough to run BC within one run group, especially if they had to sort out 30+ cars. It's impossible to send cars on track with several seconds between them when there's 30 cars. The tracks just aren't long enough......

Hope that helps.

[rhyary]

@dogbone: Hope that helps.

It does. Thank you.

I wish there was more opportunity to do open track days. I am doing a 4 hours open track event on June 11 and to me it is a very exiting day. Since I am not willing to do W2W racing, The TT or TA can be a way to compete with reduced risk. So I am watching with interest the posts on the subject.

[kyippee]

Yup time attack and time trial are same thing. TT is used as short form.

There are classes- speedSF goes S1 through S5. Bimmerchallenge B1 to B5. NASA has classes like TT1,TT2,TT3

[kyippee]

Whoa Bchallenge doesn't do own run group for the TT group? That's rough. Here's an example of the format I liked- red is the TT group and we were our own group until after the noon session.

And great post as usual Gabe

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by rhyary

@dogbone: Hope that helps.

It does. Thank you.

I wish there was more opportunity to do open track days. I am doing a 4 hours open track event on June 11 and to me it is a very exiting day. Since I am not willing to do W2W racing, The TT or TA can be a way to compete with reduced risk. So I am watching with interest the posts on the subject.

NASA does TT. They will be at LRP in July I believe. They have an HPDE program that you need to progress through to get your TT license. With your experience, you should be able to start in HPDE 3. They also run at NJMP and WGI.

I love TT. Competition without the wear and tear and cost of W2W.