Track forum general chit chat.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

Anyone know the compound difference between c3 and c5?

Looking at TD but don't want to necessarily change or mod anything to fit 285. They do have a 265/35/18 though in c3 and c5 compound.

What about tire width? My maxxis rc1 in 265 are the same size as nt01 275. How do TD compare to nt01?

I have been told the soft compound is really good.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by TheKosherStogie

Isn't this a track chit chat thread and people are saying a car needs mdm...hmmm. How about just DSC off?

I like all the little things that are changeable like suspension, dct, steering, MDM.
I understand that they left it out of the m2 to keep the price point at a good value.

I roll with MDM so I don't crash. lol

[TheKosherStogie]

^ahhh makes sense

[YMB_M3]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

Anyone know the compound difference between c3 and c5?

Looking at TD but don't want to necessarily change or mod anything to fit 285. They do have a 265/35/18 though in c3 and c5 compound.

What about tire width? My maxxis rc1 in 265 are the same size as nt01 275. How do TD compare to nt01?

I can do a side by side of an unmounted 265/35/18 Hankook RS3 and TD and post a pic if you want. I also have a mounted 275/35/18 NT01 that you could use for reference as well.Let me know

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by YMB_M3

I can do a side by side of an unmounted 265/35/18 Hankook RS3 and TD and post a pic if you want. I also have a mounted 275/35/18 NT01 that you could use for reference as well.Let me know

Do it.

[roastbeef]

yea, i'd like to see a 265 TD next to a 275 nt01.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by ///Mobbin

I switched to these drain plugs off Amazon and haven't had any issues, LINK.

How far do these stick out below the belly pan? Can you snap a shot or measure please? Nice to have a real bolt though vs. the stock plugs...

Nice job on the autocross, roastbeef!

[roastbeef]

First look at my tire rack. Weighs 20lbs.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

First look at my tire rack. Weighs 20lbs.

Aluminum tubes? Nice!

[roastbeef]

yep. he tried to bend the tubes, but it was too brittle. he builds offroad buggies and does suspension for trucks/jeeps and making aluminum fuel cells. i'm not sure how much experience he has had with aluminum tubes. i might try to get him to cut the corners off... not sure if he has time before i pick it up by the end of the week.

[///Mobbin]

Originally Posted by admranger

How far do these stick out below the belly pan? Can you snap a shot or measure please? Nice to have a real bolt though vs. the stock plugs...

Nice job on the autocross, roastbeef!

Need to do an oil change again soon, will be sure to take a pic. I also have some OEM drain plugs sitting around somewhere, will take a comparison pic as well. Have used them twice now and have been happy. Probably could re-use but I replace them just in case and the o-ring seal probably works better when new.

[///Mobbin]

They do stick out further than OEM but they also don't strip out when you remove them:

[roastbeef]

I try to limit my off-road excursions in the car, but I guess if things are 1/4" from the oil pan and are able to hit the drain bolts- I'm in deeper shit than a knocked-off drain bolt.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

Anyone know the compound difference between c3 and c5?

Looking at TD but don't want to necessarily change or mod anything to fit 285. They do have a 265/35/18 though in c3 and c5 compound.

What about tire width? My maxxis rc1 in 265 are the same size as nt01 275. How do TD compare to nt01?

In the past, Hankook TD compounds were categorized like this:

C70 - Soft Compound
C50 - Medium Compound
C30 - Hard Compound.

They simply changed it to C7, C5 and C3.

I have never seen a C50 - Medium Compound in person. In the past, I don't think the C50 was even available here in the USA.

The C70 Soft Compound is what I have run for several years. It provides very high grip. When people think of a TD and it's abilities, they are thinking of the C70 - Soft. I would generally recommend against the C30 Hard compound. It is not grippy at all compared to the Soft. It's not even remotely close to a C70. It barely compares to an R-S3 in terms of grip. A C30 tire does seem to last FOREVER though. But it's a low-grip-forever....

In terms of "feel", the C70 - Soft compound is excellent during braking. It's excellent for cornering grip. The one place that people make comments is when you go beyond the grip limit of the tire. Once you push a TD beyond the grip limit, the tire REALLY fights back for the grip aggressively which is not a smooth feeling. So, it can get chattery beyond the grip limit. Basically, this is not a good tire to smoothly drift with. The TD doesn't squeal at the limit, but it does make more noise. You know it's getting to it's limit so it's not a surprise as it let's go. (A tire like Hoosier R7 goes beyond the grip limit and back gracefully.)

A TD Soft Compound is a significantly faster tire than NT01---like 4 seconds faster at Buttonwillow. The NT01 and TD should not be classified as comparable tires. TD's and Hoosier R7's are comparable as far as lap times (In my experience, TD's were faster than Hoosier R6. I don't have experience with R7, although my friend in a GT3 compared both R7 and TD and was faster on TD). TD's and R1S's are also comparable with lap times. Generally, my experience is that R1S is faster, although TD still has my PR at both Chuckwalla and Auto Club, while R1S has my PR at Buttonwillow and Big Willow.

If you really want to feel a step up in grip from AD08 or RS3 or RE71R, get TD soft compound. I jumped up to TD from Hankook R-S3 and immediately smashed my old PR on the first lap. All the grip and turn-in you wished the car had suddenly appears.

This world of faster and more finicky tires brings up a new problem that's not as much an issue with more generic street tires. TD's are fastest in their first heat cycle. Heat cycles 1-5 are the best. As heat cycling continues, the tire's grip reduces gradually but noticeably. What this means is that you need to find clean, open, uninterrupted laps when the tires are new. This can be a challenge at a regular HPDE because you may find people blocking your path. This is quite frustrating because you're just throwing away the cherry laps of your fresh tires.

One last note about TD's: they do not enjoy lap after lap after lap after lap of fast hot laps. (I'm talking about 1:51 laps at Buttonwillow 13CW.) They prefer one hot, one cool down, one hot, one cool down, etc. If you go out and abuse the crap out of them, they will lose grip and they will come in with the rubber chunking---even in their first heat cycle. My GT3 friend had fresh TD's at Big Willow. He ran them hard in their first session. He got a great lap time for a 996 GT3---1:28, but he drove them hard lap after lap because the Porsche doesn't overheat. When he came in, the driver's side tires were basically ruined. I think he ran them one more session, pulled them off and they were done. He was quite unhappy.

Anyway, a little food for thought.

[roastbeef]

have you ever ran a medium compound TD?

i'm somewhat reluctant to experiment with anything other than the nt01, mostly because i can get as set for $800 shipped, i'm familiar with them, and they last a decent amount of time. if i could get a superior tire for maybe a little more, but has more grip, i might experiment.

[evilspiritM3]

Wife surprised me with this set up today!

[YMB_M3]

Here are some of the quick pics I took comparing the width of a 265/35/18 Hankook TD, a 265/35/18 Hankook RS3, and a mounted 275/35/18 NT01. I apologize because the pics are pretty crappy and I couldn't get my hands on a tape measure. Attachment 1504611

Hearing that Dogbone experienced the TDs to be 4 seconds faster than NT01s makes me really want to mount these before I hit the track next. I'm just not sure if it's worth it financially to run these tires for a HPDE. It would be nice though to turn a 1:55 range lap time at Buttonwillow lol.

EDIT: Working on getting these pics to upload from my phone, seems to not be working. Only one of them uploaded, I'll get to the rest when I get access to a computer

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by dogbone

In the past, Hankook TD compounds were categorized like this:

C70 - Soft Compound
C50 - Medium Compound
C30 - Hard Compound.

They simply changed it to C7, C5 and C3.

I have never seen a C50 - Medium Compound in person. In the past, I don't think the C50 was even available here in the USA.

The C70 Soft Compound is what I have run for several years. It provides very high grip. When people think of a TD and it's abilities, they are thinking of the C70 - Soft. I would generally recommend against the C30 Hard compound. It is not grippy at all compared to the Soft. It's not even remotely close to a C70. It barely compares to an R-S3 in terms of grip. A C30 tire does seem to last FOREVER though. But it's a low-grip-forever....

In terms of "feel", the C70 - Soft compound is excellent during braking. It's excellent for cornering grip. The one place that people make comments is when you go beyond the grip limit of the tire. Once you push a TD beyond the grip limit, the tire REALLY fights back for the grip aggressively which is not a smooth feeling. So, it can get chattery beyond the grip limit. Basically, this is not a good tire to smoothly drift with. The TD doesn't squeal at the limit, but it does make more noise. You know it's getting to it's limit so it's not a surprise as it let's go. (A tire like Hoosier R7 goes beyond the grip limit and back gracefully.)

A TD Soft Compound is a significantly faster tire than NT01---like 4 seconds faster at Buttonwillow. The NT01 and TD should not be classified as comparable tires. TD's and Hoosier R7's are comparable as far as lap times (In my experience, TD's were faster than Hoosier R6. I don't have experience with R7, although my friend in a GT3 compared both R7 and TD and was faster on TD). TD's and R1S's are also comparable with lap times. Generally, my experience is that R1S is faster, although TD still has my PR at both Chuckwalla and Auto Club, while R1S has my PR at Buttonwillow and Big Willow.

If you really want to feel a step up in grip from AD08 or RS3 or RE71R, get TD soft compound. I jumped up to TD from Hankook R-S3 and immediately smashed my old PR on the first lap. All the grip and turn-in you wished the car had suddenly appears.

This world of faster and more finicky tires brings up a new problem that's not as much an issue with more generic street tires. TD's are fastest in their first heat cycle. Heat cycles 1-5 are the best. As heat cycling continues, the tire's grip reduces gradually but noticeably. What this means is that you need to find clean, open, uninterrupted laps when the tires are new. This can be a challenge at a regular HPDE because you may find people blocking your path. This is quite frustrating because you're just throwing away the cherry laps of your fresh tires.

One last note about TD's: they do not enjoy lap after lap after lap after lap of fast hot laps. (I'm talking about 1:51 laps at Buttonwillow 13CW.) They prefer one hot, one cool down, one hot, one cool down, etc. If you go out and abuse the crap out of them, they will lose grip and they will come in with the rubber chunking---even in their first heat cycle. My GT3 friend had fresh TD's at Big Willow. He ran them hard in their first session. He got a great lap time for a 996 GT3---1:28, but he drove them hard lap after lap because the Porsche doesn't overheat. When he came in, the driver's side tires were basically ruined. I think he ran them one more session, pulled them off and they were done. He was quite unhappy.

Anyway, a little food for thought.

Tldr- what are the differences in compound? Jk

Thanks for the input. So I'm guessing the 285 that people run are c7? In that case I'd run the c5. Maybe that's a good compromise between nt01 and extra grip. Don't mind the harsh kick back of regaining traction - I'm well trained.

If not, a little dust don't hurt

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

have you ever ran a medium compound TD?

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

Thanks for the input. So I'm guessing the 285 that people run are c7? In that case I'd run the c5. Maybe that's a good compromise between nt01 and extra grip.

I've never seen a C5 or C50 Medium Compound TD. I've never even heard of anyone running it. Is it even available for purchase?

I'd be curious to know what you guys find out.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by YMB_M3

Hearing that Dogbone experienced the TDs to be 4 seconds faster than NT01s makes me really want to mount these before I hit the track next. I'm just not sure if it's worth it financially to run these tires for a HPDE. It would be nice though to turn a 1:55 range lap time at Buttonwillow lol.

Remember that going faster on a higher grip tire is not just an automatic thing. It does take time to adapt to the tire's new abilities because the brake zones are different (shorter/braking later), the cornering speeds are different (higher), exiting the corner is different (sooner on the gas and more aggressive on the gas). In my experiences as an amateur, taking advantage of these new abilities does not come instantly. Yes, you will be overall faster right away, but most amateur drivers (including me) take more time to adapt because we get set in the ways of our previous setup---the feel of the G's the car can take, the feel of how hard you can press the brake pedal, the feel of when to brake, etc. One of the marks of a pro driver is the ability to [safely] take any tire to it's maximum very quickly.

So, when I say a TD (or any other tire for that matter) is a lot faster, it could take 2 or 3 sets of the tire to ultimately net the maximum benefit from it because there's a quite a bit of adaptation required. But that's what I love about motorsport! There are endless ways to challenge yourself.

[chamba002]

^^^ I kinda felt that way when I tracked in the rain.... Im so used to taking the dry line but in the wet its the complete opposite. Most of the grip is outside the dry line and its sometimes hard to get used to that. The margin of error is a lot higher too. You just have to adapt to the situation.

[///Mobbin]

I'm planning to pick up the Bilstein B16 Damptronics kit soon and will likely lower my car slightly when I install it. With that in mind I may also install adjustable front end-links at the same time, curious if anyway has a favorite brand?