Oil Analysis Reports

[IIAp3x]

Originally Posted by jackjhart

I decided to have an analysis because I just bought my 2009 M3 with 54k miles.

LEAD is high, but the oil change was a little overdue (less than 1k overdue) That is all the info that I have.

What do you guys think? I heard that "if you have high lead, that it may be a bearing issue" but I wanted your opinion. I want to start tracking my car at the end of September, so I want to make sure everything is OK prior to that.

I have looked at nearly every Blackstone report available on M3Post over the last few months...

The metal counts aren't nearly as reliable as they should be...

I have looked at a dozen reports from people with high lead and copper counts, where many of them had reoccurring lead counts in the 20-30s and copper counts in the 10-15s over the course of 3-4 oil change intervals without bearing failure... Some of these guys even tracked their cars...

My car spun a rod bearing 1000 miles after a fairly healthy BS report at 56k miles!

Not trying to freak you out here, as your engine could last another 200k miles as far as any of us know... But if I had the chance to do it again I would have just simply paid to have the rod bearings refreshed for $2500 when the car crossed the 50k mile mark instead of suffering an engine failure...

Then you can truly drive it like you stole it without worrying about it!

[Doc Oc]

Just got my first blackstone done. Not too happy with the results considering there's less than 2000 miles on the oil. What do you all think? and sorry, I don't know how to display the report like everyone else has.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

Just got my first blackstone done. Not too happy with the results considering there's less than 2000 miles on the oil. What do you all think?

No worries .

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

No worries .

I was a little worried due to the oci of 2k miles. Seen cars with 5-7k have equal or better results...but I'm probably being paranoid. Anyone know what's up with the high boron? Is that the ceratek?

Thanks

[Shredicus]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

I was a little worried due to the oci of 2k miles. Seen cars with 5-7k have equal or better results...but I'm probably being paranoid. Anyone know what's up with the high boron? Is that the ceratek?

Thanks

Yes. Ceratec has nothing to do with actual ceramic, but is a boron nitride additive

[IIAp3x]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

Just got my first blackstone done. Not too happy with the results considering there's less than 2000 miles on the oil. What do you all think? and sorry, I don't know how to display the report like everyone else has.

A lot of guys are running 0w 40 to reduce their lead and copper count, and from what I can see many of their preceding reports do indicate a significant decrease in those two metals... Looks like a great cure for the cold start dilemma but the performance of the 40 at full operating temps seems to be the meandering debate...

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by IIAp3x

A lot of guys are running 0w 40 to reduce their lead and copper count, and from what I can see many of their preceding reports do indicate a significant decrease in those two metals... Looks like a great cure for the cold start dilemma but the performance of the 40 at full operating temps seems to be the meandering debate...

Thanks. I'm putting in Pennzoil Ultra 5w40 this weekend for the summer and am going with the m1 for winter.

[IIAp3x]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

Thanks. I'm putting in Pennzoil Ultra 5w40 this weekend for the summer and am going with the m1 for winter.

The problem with the BS reports are the metal data averages and the inconsistency in the reports... Some people find them useful for making tough decisions like upgrading their bearings...

Its hard to know what the true PPM averages are when you have a lot of guys running leaded racing gas for track events, which contaminates the oil causing the high PPM number in their next blackstone report... Their data actually skews the average for most of us with normal street cars that never taste leaded fuel... I think the true PPM average for the lead count in an E92 M3 is likely a lot less than what blackstone states it is...

Being that your measures indicate an 8 PPM count at only 2k miles might be a concern... That is if you had reliable data to base it on... I would have another BS report done your next oil change and see if there are improvements... At least your first report will serve a more reliable baseline...

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by IIAp3x

The problem with the BS reports are the metal data averages and the inconsistency in the reports... Some people find them useful for making tough decisions like upgrading their bearings...

Its hard to know what the true PPM averages are when you have a lot of guys running leaded racing gas for track events, which contaminates the oil causing the high PPM number in their next blackstone report... Their data actually skews the average for most of us with normal street cars that never taste leaded fuel... I think the true PPM average for the lead count in an E92 M3 is likely a lot less than what blackstone states it is...

Being that your measures indicate an 8 PPM count at only 2k miles might be a concern... That is if you had reliable data to base it on... I would have another BS report done your next oil change and see if there are improvements... At least your first report will serve a more reliable baseline...

Good points, thanks. If this was a a full oci I wouldn't be as worried, but its really only about 1600-1700 miles, so those numbers (I imagine) would be around 4 times higher with a 7-8k oci, right? Or does it not work like that ?

[IIAp3x]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

Thanks. I'm putting in Pennzoil Ultra 5w40 this weekend for the summer and am going with the m1 for winter.

I have been thinking about making the 0w 40 switch myself... Just not sure its good enough for the Florida summer...

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by IIAp3x

I have been thinking about making the 0w 40 switch myself... Just not sure its good enough for the Florida summer...

We literally haven't had a day under 90 in June so I was going to wait for the Blackstone before switching, but I don't like the numbers so I'm putting the 5w in and taking it easy until the next report.

[IIAp3x]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

We literally haven't had a day under 90 in June so I was going to wait for the Blackstone before switching, but I don't like the numbers so I'm putting the 5w in and taking it easy until the next report.

If my oil education serves me well, the cold weight is the 5w- which basically means that the oil performs at a SAE of 5 at colder temperatures, but still operates at a SAE of 40 at full operating temperatures...

The problem with lower "w" oils is that they have more additives in them to make them thinner at colder temps, and the additives can leave residue and don't clean off of the engine components as well as higher "w" oils- which have less additives... It's a trade off in some ways... The additives can also break down at higher temps and cake up, where higher "w" oils will not... Most of these test are performed at 400 degrees, which is an unrealistic engine temp for most of us considering our engines typically operate in the 225 - 250 range...

After having run castrol 10w 60 for several months in the spring this year and now I am running the Shell 10w 60- I can honestly say that the Shell oil seems a little thinner than the castrol... I notice that it warms up a littler faster also... For me, I think the Shell 10w 60 is a great summer oil and it has less additives than 0w 40... For the Winter I may be trading up for 0w-40...

Good sources

bobistheoilguy.com
tribology-abc.com/abc/viscosity.htm#VI

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

I was a little worried due to the oci of 2k miles. Seen cars with 5-7k have equal or better results...but I'm probably being paranoid. Anyone know what's up with the high boron? Is that the ceratek?

Thanks

Additive .
The big question is...
Is Blackstone a guarantee for our S65's ?
Personal I'm not sure because I saw a few just go after a good Blackstone report with M1 and Castrol .
So ...For me personal the oil is NOT the problem .

[JEllis]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Additive .
The big question is...
Is Blackstone a guarantee for our S65's ?
Personal I'm not sure because I saw a few just go after a good Blackstone report with M1 and Castrol .
So ...For me personal the oil is NOT the problem .

One report says nothing.

Oil analysis is used heavily for engines that are continuously running like large generators, pumps ect.... analysis needs to be done regularly to develop trends. A single report says nothing.

Long story short, if your going to use oil analysis you want to start early and do it often to track particulates in your oil.

Will it help predict bearing failure on our cars? I have yet to see anyone post a significant analysis history that proves anything one way or the other.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by JEllis

One report says nothing.

Oil analysis is used heavily for engines that are continuously running like large generators, pumps ect.... analysis needs to be done regularly to develop trends. A single report says nothing.

Long story short, if your going to use oil analysis you want to start early and do it often to track particulates in your oil.

Will it help predict bearing failure on our cars? I have yet to see anyone post a significant analysis history that proves anything one way or the other.

I know .
Saw also the opposite... of one member on here with one Blackstone analysis .
Report showed + 70 ppm of lead , and the guy changed the bearings ,his bearings were like crap through the copper .
No matter what kind of oil is used , we cannot change the design flaw of our bearings .
Edit : Here is one with 37 ppm of lead => http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1140239

[blankstar43]

Posting my 5th oil analysis for my 2012 M3. Given the year of my car I don't have the older generation of bearings with lead. I am still a bit confused as to if there is a different metal to watch the wear trends on for the later bearings without lead, but my numbers seem pretty consistent.

Still on the fence on whether to pick up an aftermarket warranty now that I am a few thousand past 50k

[JEllis]

Originally Posted by blankstar43

Posting my 5th oil analysis for my 2012 M3. Given the year of my car I don't have the older generation of bearings with lead. I am still a bit confused as to if there is a different metal to watch the wear trends on for the later bearings without lead, but my numbers seem pretty consistent.

Still on the fence on whether to pick up an aftermarket warranty now that I am a few thousand past 50k

Any significant rise in wear metals would be concerning. A rise in Copper would show you are potentially through the first layer of the bearings.

[Johndong888]

This is my BS report from 6/7/2014 (26k) and 5/12/2015 (38k). My car is a 2012 E92 M3, First and only owner/driver of the car. Car is driven in NJ all year round. Only engine mods is BPM Stg 1 Tune and AA Green Filter.

I do my own oil change in between dealer 15k oil change intervals, so right around the 7-8k mark.

I only use OEM BMW oil from GETBMWPARTS which is the Castrol 10W/60. I Just switched to the BMW brand oil at 38k Miles.

I have also attached the DCT BS report from a 2011 M3 with 63k miles on it, factory filled of course.

[e92zero]

Here is my latest oil analysis report. This is roughly 10k after rod bearing change.

[Leonardo629]

e92zero, I noticed you did a short stint with M1 0W40 (or a 40wt oil of your choice) with excellent results.

Tin is at 5ppm this time around, and that could be bearing wear (new bearings break-in perhaps). I say keep whatever you're doing, but keep an eye on that tin.

[e92zero]

Originally Posted by Leonardo629

e92zero, I noticed you did a short stint with M1 0W40 (or a 40wt oil of your choice) with excellent results.

Tin is at 5ppm this time around, and that could be bearing wear (new bearings break-in perhaps). I say keep whatever you're doing, but keep an eye on that tin.

Thanks and I agree with you. Will keep an eye on that tin. However, my first oil change at 7500 when the car was brand new had tin at 8ppm. Which I hope/think it's the new bearing breaking in. Hopefully next time around, it will go down.

[Leonardo629]

Originally Posted by e92zero

Thanks and I agree with you. Will keep an eye on that tin. However, my first oil change at 7500 when the car was brand new had tin at 8ppm. Which I hope/think it's the new bearing breaking in. Hopefully next time around, it will go down.

Just curious, what was the condition of your old bearings? Your previous UOAs showed excellent wear. My pedestrian Honda Accord spewed more metals into the oil, and that thing never revs higher than 3000rpm.