Class Action Lawsuit for Rod Bearing issue, LETS FINALLY DO THIS

[Rich150001]

Originally Posted by mjposner

Spoke to my class action guy today. He said $100k easy and no hybrid allowed, so lawyer has to front all costs and risks to get possible reward. Let's say 5% failure rate. Out of those 1/2 are in warranty and 1/2 out, leaving 2.5% affected. If half mod then only 1.25% are potentially class eligible. I suggest someone start a web site to track this issue to see if a large deep pocket firm might be interested. We are too small to take on this risk. Assuming 25k installed, and 1,000 engines to replace, that is 25 million in claims.

Seems like a lot of money/risk involved. I wonder who coughed up the funds for the N54 Class action law suit. I know the OP reached out to them, so I'm curious how that is going to play out and what they will say.

[MPowerZ32]

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

Parallel to the class action suit, we can also start reporting the RB issue and the potential threat to public safety.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by Rich150001

Seems like a lot of money/risk involved. I wonder who coughed up the funds for the N54 Class action law suit. I know the OP reached out to them, so I'm curious how that is going to play out and what they will say.

I think a bad fuel pump on a high volume engine would be a much easier case. What could you possible do to a fuel pump to make it fail?

I think failures in a limited run, 8400 rpm, high performance engine loosely based on a V10 designed for Formula 1 would not seem like a slam dunk win. I'm sure all of the track videos and pictures we post won't help.

[SteveInfante]

This is a great idea if it were to ever happen. I like the idea of the extended powertrain warranty. This would solve a lot of worried owners worry. It's very few an far between that there is a car out there that isn't modded. I'm going to buy used and it's hard to find a "clean" unmolested example to purchase.

If there were some tried and true fix for this and not much guesswork involved then that would be a different story but no one has nailed the cause and solution down as of yet. The M3 owners that I know just replace their bearings and go on about their business taking into account the nature and history of this engine.

The arguing about the data that was presented is clouding up the thread devoted to gaining support for this movement. If you don't want to support it then start another thread against it and argue with yourself about where you got your data and how you can manipulate it to prove your point. Happens all the time. Numbers don't lie.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I think a bad fuel pump on a high volume engine would be a much easier case. What could you possible do to a fuel pump to make it fail?

I think failures in a limited run, 8400 rpm, high performance engine loosely based on a V10 designed for Formula 1 would not seem like a slam dunk win. I'm sure all of the track videos and pictures we post won't help.

Take em down no one will know.

[Scrippy]

My car developed this rod bearing issue at 42,000. It's a 2011 M3 Coupe. My tapping was audible from 1,000-2,000 RPM under light load. I could always hear it going up my driveway and when alongside K rail in freeway traffic. My dealer is denying any issues. My last service appointment was a waste of time. They said they drove it thoroughly and couldn't produce the noise. I came down to take a spin with a tech and I couldn't hear it now either. I did notice only 1 additional mile on it after my original drop off. I took the car back and the noise came back 20 miles later. I think they put an additive in my oil to quiet it. I took my car to European Auto Source for bearing replacement. They send your oil out to be analyzed for metal. I'm just paying for the work and then going to small claims court with my oil report and receipts and trying to recoup my money. The replacement is costing me $2,300 but I'll have a purring kitten again. Trust me ya'll.......DEALERS ARE NOT EQUIPPED TO DEAL WITH THIS. They pay their in-experienced techs shit money and so you pay for SHIT work! I love the manufacturer but despise BMW dealers. I would love to find a factory owned dealership to use near LA!!!!

[bigjae1976]

I think there are a lot of flaws in the service tech/advisor setup. First...most advisors don't know shit about cars. Good advisors probably won't be advisors forever. So it's a high turnover position.

The advisor should be your voice to advocate to BMW for warranty stuff. Many just see it as I'm taking cars in and getting 10's. I've had a few good advisors and they make a huge difference. When you find a good one...stick with them.

[swagkingcole]

Originally Posted by Scrippy

My car developed this rod bearing issue at 42,000. It's a 2011 M3 Coupe. My tapping was audible from 1,000-2,000 RPM under light load. I could always hear it going up my driveway and when alongside K rail in freeway traffic. My dealer is denying any issues. My last service appointment was a waste of time. They said they drove it thoroughly and couldn't produce the noise. I came down to take a spin with a tech and I couldn't hear it now either. I did notice only 1 additional mile on it after my original drop off. I took the car back and the noise came back 20 miles later. I think they put an additive in my oil to quiet it. I took my car to European Auto Source for bearing replacement. They send your oil out to be analyzed for metal. I'm just paying for the work and then going to small claims court with my oil report and receipts and trying to recoup my money. The replacement is costing me $2,300 but I'll have a purring kitten again. Trust me ya'll.......DEALERS ARE NOT EQUIPPED TO DEAL WITH THIS. They pay their in-experienced techs shit money and so you pay for SHIT work! I love the manufacturer but despise BMW dealers. I would love to find a factory owned dealership to use near LA!!!!

Local BMW dealer wanted to charge me 9,500 for the job LOL

[Scrippy]

Originally Posted by swagkingcole

Local BMW dealer wanted to charge me 9,500 for the job LOL

Dealers!

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by Scrippy

My car developed this rod bearing issue at 42,000. It's a 2011 M3 Coupe. My tapping was audible from 1,000-2,000 RPM under light load. I could always hear it going up my driveway and when alongside K rail in freeway traffic. My dealer is denying any issues. My last service appointment was a waste of time. They said they drove it thoroughly and couldn't produce the noise.

That will be because if the tapping noise you heard was rod bearings your engine would be a bag of bits by now.

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by Stevedotmil

If there were some tried and true fix for this and not much guesswork involved then that would be a different story but no one has nailed the cause and solution down as of yet. The M3 owners that I know just replace their bearings and go on about their business taking into account the nature and history of this engine.

This:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=892838

And this:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1069180

[SteveInfante]

Thanks for the info. Did anyone else notice the change in rotating assembly weight in the alter models of S65? Down to 41 from 43.

[Scrippy]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

That will be because if the tapping noise you heard was rod bearings your engine would be a bag of bits by now.

I'm not sure what you mean bud? Rod bearings tap when the bearings wear away and lose material. This produces a void which allows the rod to tap once per revolution. This doesn't mean your motor will blow up. If left in this condition too long, you risk losing material on the journal of the crank. Or if left too long like this and you attempt to mash on the throttle.....you may cause the failure. Just hearing noise doesn't mean your engines wasted. If people think that than I'll by any S65 motor off someone if it just has a slight tick!!!! Then I'll fix it for $2,300 and slang it for 10,000. The fact that the bearings wear on a daily driver that gets taken care of is bullshit! Pisses me off! My 335i had wastegate rattle and I had to replace the turbos on my dime and now this with my M3!

[Rich150001]

Originally Posted by Scrippy

I'm not sure what you mean bud? Rod bearings tap when the bearings wear away and lose material. This produces a void which allows the rod to tap once per revolution. This doesn't mean your motor will blow up. If left in this condition too long, you risk losing material on the journal of the crank. Or if left too long like this and you attempt to mash on the throttle.....you may cause the failure. Just hearing noise doesn't mean your engines wasted. If people think that than I'll by any S65 motor off someone if it just has a slight tick!!!! Then I'll fix it for $2,300 and slang it for 10,000. The fact that the bearings wear on a daily driver that gets taken care of is bullshit! Pisses me off! My 335i had wastegate rattle and I had to replace the turbos on my dime and now this with my M3!

Ouch...so the lawsuit for the 335i allowed me to get new turbos through a BMW extended warranty. You must've had to replace yours before BMW extended the warranty.

[Scrippy]

Originally Posted by Rich150001

Ouch...so the lawsuit for the 335i allowed me to get new turbos through a BMW extended warranty. You must've had to replace yours before BMW extended the warranty.

No, my local dealer fucked me like they did with my bearing issue....."couldn't produce issue"....."vehicle operates as designed"!!!! I could scan at least 4 work invoices from my at the time under warranty 335i and 3 work orders from my out of warranty M3. For both issues, I was quoted REDICULOUS amounts to repair. I did the turbos myself and now I'm paying for my S65 bearings myself. I'm out of warranty on years not miles! Fucking unreal!

[avusm3]

I would support the class action. I've been driving BMWs for 15 yrs (including beating the heck out of a Euro motor E36 M3 for the last eight year on track) and I have never had a serious issue until the motor let go in my E92 M3.

These cars clearly have a design flaw. I'm honestly not sure what the answer/fix is, but BMW should be forced to formally address the issue rather than making individual owners fight it out.

In my case it was replaced under warranty, but if I was 10k miles further down the road I would have had a $25k bill....

[OneMmmm]

I most likely wouldn't see any benefit due to modifications, but I do support this effort. At the very least, I'd like to see BMW formally respond to the issue at hand.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by Scrippy

I'm not sure what you mean bud? Rod bearings tap when the bearings wear away and lose material. This produces a void which allows the rod to tap once per revolution. This doesn't mean your motor will blow up. If left in this condition too long, you risk losing material on the journal of the crank. Or if left too long like this and you attempt to mash on the throttle.....you may cause the failure. Just hearing noise doesn't mean your engines wasted.

A tapping noise you have had for a while that can go away for 20 minutes, is not usually a symptom of imminent rod bearing failure. If you really think you have a bearing problem then don't waste your time trying to record random tapping sounds, pull your oil filter and cut it open...if you can see sparkly copper particles then that will be the time to park up until its investigated.

This is what a failing rod bearing sounds like:

[davesaddiction]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

A tapping noise you have had for a while that can go away for 20 minutes, is not usually a symptom of imminent rod bearing failure. If you really think you have a bearing problem then don't waste your time trying to record random tapping sounds, pull your oil filter and cut it open...if you can see sparkly copper particles then that will be the time to park up until its investigated.

This is what a failing rod bearing sounds like:

Yeah, definitely a unique noise compared with our engine's normal ticking sound.

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I think failures in a limited run, 8400 rpm, high performance engine loosely based on a V10 designed for Formula 1 would not seem like a slam dunk win. I'm sure all of the track videos and pictures we post won't help.

Considering BMW marketed the car as track capable, I'm sure it wouldn't hurt, either.

If this lawsuit were to come to fruition, the only thing that I would be miffed about is this: the people on here claiming that this is a frivolous pursuit would be covered, as well, after all of their naysaying and ridiculing.

[regular guy]

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

Considering BMW marketed the car as track capable, I'm sure it wouldn't hurt, either.

If this lawsuit were to come to fruition, the only thing that I would be miffed about is this: the people on here claiming that this is a frivolous pursuit would be covered, as well, after all of their naysaying and ridiculing.

As a matter of principle, they should all publicly announce they will not become beneficiaries or accept any of the benefits of a judgment or settlement should either ever come. Just as I have already announced, as a matter of principle, that I would not join the class because I had decided to build a stroker motor only four months after buying the car back in April 2008.

[Scrippy]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

A tapping noise you have had for a while that can go away for 20 minutes, is not usually a symptom of imminent rod bearing failure. If you really think you have a bearing problem then don't waste your time trying to record random tapping sounds, pull your oil filter and cut it open...if you can see sparkly copper particles then that will be the time to park up until its investigated.

This is what a failing rod bearing sounds like:

Wow! Great info dude! I never thought about doing that. Can the metal get that high up on the motor though? Thanx again....great idea!