Rod bearing change at 86k miles

[e92zero]

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

Thanks for posting. How long would you say this took you?

It took me like 3.5 days from the first moment I step into the garage until the moment I cleaned up and put everything away. I ran into some problems removing the stud from the factory oil cooler and had to run out to a hardware store to pick up some M8x1.25x16mm socket head screws for the VFE oil cooler. I also stop the first day after I drop the oil pan to let the oil drip out as I didn't want to have to fight with oil dripping on my face. I 'really' took my time to figure out how to remove/reroute things and cleaned up all the bolts that had thread locks on them. If I have to do this again, I should be able to get it done in less than 3 days. It should be doable in 2 though I think. If you have a lift, it will be much faster. A lot of the time was spend lowering/raising the subframe/suspension arms and trying to line everything up. I was doing this all by myself with no other helping hand.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by e92zero

It took me like 3.5 days from the first moment I step into the garage until the moment I cleaned up and put everything away. I ran into some problems removing the stud from the factory oil cooler and had to run out to a hardware store to pick up some M8x1.25x16mm socket head screws for the VFE oil cooler. I also stop the first day after I drop the oil pan to let the oil drip out as I didn't want to have to fight with oil dripping on my face. I 'really' took my time to figure out how to remove/reroute things and cleaned up all the bolts that had thread locks on them. If I have to do this again, I should be able to get it done in less than 3 days. It should be doable in 2 though I think. If you have a lift, it will be much faster. A lot of the time was spend lowering/raising the subframe/suspension arms and trying to line everything up. I was doing this all by myself with no other helping hand.

After reading and seen what you have done ...I've realy for you !

[e92zero]

Originally Posted by ||||||||||

I definitely want to do my rod bearings at some point. What would everyone say is the absolute longest they would go on OEM bearings before taking the plunge and replacing them? I am at 43k miles now and the car was very well taken care of with proper break in and all dealer maintenance done on time. I have no reasons to worry yet but the only thing that makes me nervous is the previous owners did oil changes around 13500 miles and never did a DIY oil change in between. I am going to start that trend next month with a Blackstone analysis but the damage may have already been done.

I can't say for sure as failure seems to be ranging from 6k miles to engines running perfectly fine at 150k. Again, I would not have done this right now at 86k given how I maintained my car if not for the drop in oil pressure and the temp creeping up on me. I did oil analysis every single oil change and they didn't show anything abnormal. My bearings look great compare to some of the other ones on here but they are definitely not normal given that I rarely spend any time in the high rpm range, much less redlining it. Most of the time it's just very light load freeway cruising. I think an oil pressure gauge should have come standard on this car just like the P-cars.

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

After reading and seen what you have done ...I've realy for you !

+1

Originally Posted by e92zero

I can't say for sure as failure seems to be ranging from 6k miles to engines running perfectly fine at 150k. Again, I would not have done this right now at 86k given how I maintained my car if not for the drop in oil pressure and the temp creeping up on me. I did oil analysis every single oil change and they didn't show anything abnormal. My bearings look great compare to some of the other ones on here but they are definitely not normal given that I rarely spend any time in the high rpm range, much less redlining it. Most of the time it's just very light load freeway cruising. I think an oil pressure gauge should have come standard on this car just like the P-cars.

I am sure the bearing would have given at some point in time. But given the condition yours' are I don't think anyone can say what the wear rate should be at a given mileage. Yours' look a lot better than most that we've seen here. I don't know when exactly the bearing wear happens - high or low rpm. I am the same like you, religiously warming up and keeping under 4k rpm before driving hard. But I don't baby my car and I do take it to redline most often.

I am about to be hit with a big bill for TVA, with bank 1 starting to play up. I am going to DIY thanks to an excellent post by W/// and others. I am currently approaching 48k km on a '07 built car.

Thank you for posting your experience and helping the community. But to be honest it's not a DIY for me. I don't have the confidence. Kudos to you for doing it.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by e92zero

A lot of people said the Harbor Freight one is good enough. I checked that out in person and didn't like the weld and the padding on it. So I ended up ordering the OTC one from Aamazon:

http://www.amazon.com/OTC-4324-Sting.../dp/B0002SR47C

HF engine support for half the money is fine -- I have used one on a few jobs over the past 5 years including my e90m3 rod bearing change. But the OTC looks fine and $130 is not that much money.

[e92zero]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

HF engine support for half the money is fine -- I have used one on a few jobs over the past 5 years including my e90m3 rod bearing change. But the OTC looks fine and $130 is not that much money.

Maybe it was the one I saw but the weld didn't give me enough confident.
And as you said the OTC is not really that much more money but it looks much more solid than the HF.

Thank you all for the kind words. I learned a lot on this forum from you guys that I just want to give back a good data point and share my experience.

[Richbot]

Interesting the bottom halves on bank 2 show a different pattern than bank 1

[e92zero]

Originally Posted by Richbot

Interesting the bottom halves on bank 2 show a different pattern than bank 1

bank 2 assuming 5-8? Along with the fact that back side of the top halves on this bank are a good shade or 2 darker than the rest also. I am not sure if that's a sign of the bearing heating up too much or not. Would love to hear some feedback/opinion on this.

[SenorFunkyPants]

If you aren't seeing any signs of exposed copper on the bearings then Clevite would most likely call that normal wear. Some pics with better lighting might reveal more.
One thing that stands out (apart from the dark colour on the back of some ) is that the lower bearings show more signs of wear than is usual.

[W///]

Originally Posted by ||||||||||

I definitely want to do my rod bearings at some point. What would everyone say is the absolute longest they would go on OEM bearings before taking the plunge and replacing them? I am at 43k miles now and the car was very well taken care of with proper break in and all dealer maintenance done on time. I have no reasons to worry yet but the only thing that makes me nervous is the previous owners did oil changes around 13500 miles and never did a DIY oil change in between. I am going to start that trend next month with a Blackstone analysis but the damage may have already been done.

There's absolutely no way to tell. We've seen engine go boom anywhere between 6k to 100k+.

OP, great job! Much respect, especially because you did it on jack stands. I personally have no patience and don't have the confience in doing a job like this quite yet. I'm waiting for the new custom bearings to come out and will nag Kawasaki00 to help me DIY haha. I'm just about to turn over roll over 83k miles, and while my car has been pretty issue free, it's time to start thinking about doing this.

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

If you aren't seeing any signs of exposed copper on the bearings then Clevite would most likely call that normal wear. Some pics with better lighting might reveal more.
One thing that stands out (apart from the dark colour on the back of some ) is that the lower bearings show more signs of wear than is usual.

Were copper bearings still in use on 2011 cars?

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by W///

There's absolutely no way to tell. We've seen engine go boom anywhere between 6k to 100k+.

OP, great job! Much respect, especially because you did it on jack stands. I personally have no patience and don't have the confience in doing a job like this quite yet. I'm waiting for the new custom bearings to come out and will nag Kawasaki00 to help me DIY haha. I'm just about to turn over roll over 83k miles, and while my car has been pretty issue free, it's time to start thinking about doing this.

Indeed 83K miles = 133.575 KM !
If you change your bearings, please post pics,at least if it's possible..
I'm on 32K miles and think to wait another 32K , and for the moment my S65 sounds just perfect, no ticking noises !
But the big question is ...Are the Clevite bearings better , because I realy don't like to see my S65 as an experiment....
BTW....Happy New Year my friend .

[W///]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Indeed 83K miles = 133.575 KM !
If you change your bearings, please post pics,at least if it's possible..
I'm on 32K miles and think to wait another 32K , and for the moment my S65 sounds just perfect, no ticking noises !
But the big question is ...Are the Clevite bearings better , because I realy don't like to see my S65 as an experiment....
BTW....Happy New Year my friend .

She's running like a champ currently, but who knows what exactly is going on inside the engine itself. That's why I'm not in a huge rush though.

I haven't 100% thought about what kind of bearing I'd chose, or when I'd change it. I've met Kawasaki00 in person and keep in touch with him all the time. Because of that, I know what he does for a living and more than trust his abilities and judgement. Heck, he was the one that told me to switch from LM 10W60 to M1. So we'll see what happens. I'll cross that bridge when its' time.

There's one thing I know for sure though. Took the E92 out on a mountain run yesterday, and I'm more convinced that I adore this car. Happy new years!!

[e92zero]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

If you aren't seeing any signs of exposed copper on the bearings then Clevite would most likely call that normal wear. Some pics with better lighting might reveal more.
One thing that stands out (apart from the dark colour on the back of some ) is that the lower bearings show more signs of wear than is usual.

I am not sure if the new bearings have copper core and by the time the copper is shown, I think the engine is on borrowed time, no? My guess on the more wear on the lower bearing than others is because of my use. As most of the time, this engine is in light load application, the wear is more uniform on both top and bottom where as engines that spends more time in the high rpm range will show more wear on top perhaps?

I don't want to start a debate here but based on this paper from Clevite:

http://www.remotech.info/uploads/cle..._tech_info.pdf

my bearings look nothing like their normal wear picture. Furthermore, I looked around the internet and there are some Integra, S2000 bearings on much higher mileage engines that showed 'normal' wear similar to Clevite's picture. (I can't really find any Ferrari or Porshce bearing pictures to compare). I was looking for high revving/specific output engines specifically. Although I agree my bearings look to be in very good shape compare with some of the ones shown here and on the M5 forum, I do not think this is normal at all. Not for a modern engine and especially not the way that I have meticulously maintaining it. I just hope we will find a solution for our last of the breed NA engine at some point so we can all enjoy this engine as we should.

On the other hand, I don't think my engine have any side clearance issue that was discussed in the other threads. I don't have the equipment to measure it. However, the side of the rods/caps look perfect with almost all of the criss-cross pattern (from machining/honing?) still in tack. The side of the crank also look perfect. No discoloration/spot of any sort. No rub marks like the ones shown in the clearance wiki. I also was able to shift them side to side with decent amount of play. Didn't BMW change the crank part number over the year? Maybe they adjusted something over time here? If I do this next time, I will use a feeder gauge to measure it. At the moment, I am not worry about side clearance on my engine.

[xpunisherx]

OP you are the man!

I'd been wondering if this was a DIY capable project without a lift. Seeing that you were able to do this with jacks/jack-stands/milk crate/lumber....is absolutely inspiring! Definitely sparks my personal curiosity about whether I could do it.

Did you use portions from the BMW TIS to help you with this? If so, what sections would you recommend looking up and printing to prepare for this job (i.e. information about proper removal of the sub frame, oil pan removal and installation, particular torque specs, etc....)?

Thank you for sharing your experience with all of us! Thank you for being a pioneer and treading into uncharted DIY territory. (I say uncharted because I'd wager that many of us DIYers on this forum have limited experience undertaking a job of this magnitude.)

[e92zero]

Originally Posted by xpunisherx

OP you are the man!

I'd been wondering if this was a DIY capable project without a lift. Seeing that you were able to do this with jacks/jack-stands/milk crate/lumber....is absolutely inspiring! Definitely sparks my personal curiosity about whether I could do it.

Did you use portions from the BMW TIS to help you with this? If so, what sections would you recommend looking up and printing to prepare for this job (i.e. information about proper removal of the sub frame, oil pan removal and installation, particular torque specs, etc....)?

Thank you for sharing your experience with all of us! Thank you for being a pioneer and treading into uncharted DIY territory. (I say uncharted because I'd wager that many of us DIYers on this forum have limited experience undertaking a job of this magnitude.)

Thanks for the kind words. If memory serves me right, the sections that I did read through are the subframe, oil sump, suspension, and brakes section. I pretty much only used the TIS for the torque specs for all the bolts that I removed and noted down any particular sequence/order. The only thing that stood out was how it call to tighten the bolts on the subframe from front to back which I followed. Other than that, I just went at it. When removing bolts on structure/components, I never remove one all the way out in one shot, I loosen them up a bit at a time from outside inward to avoid warping. Reverse when tightening. Good luck and let me know if you have any other questions.

[e92zero]

I have updated the first post and the follow up with some more information for people that are interested in DIY this.

[marksae]

Originally Posted by xpunisherx

OP you are the man!

I'd been wondering if this was a DIY capable project without a lift. Seeing that you were able to do this with jacks/jack-stands/milk crate/lumber....is absolutely inspiring! Definitely sparks my personal curiosity about whether I could do it.

Did you use portions from the BMW TIS to help you with this? If so, what sections would you recommend looking up and printing to prepare for this job (i.e. information about proper removal of the sub frame, oil pan removal and installation, particular torque specs, etc....)?

Thank you for sharing your experience with all of us! Thank you for being a pioneer and treading into uncharted DIY territory. (I say uncharted because I'd wager that many of us DIYers on this forum have limited experience undertaking a job of this magnitude.)

Couldn't have said it better! Reading this thread has given me the confidence to attempt this myself when the time comes to change the rod bearings.

So the rod bearings are just swapped, as in remove and replace? There's no clearance measurements taken?

[e92zero]

Originally Posted by marksae

Could have said it better! Reading this thread has given me the confidence to attempt this myself when the time comes to change the rod bearings.

So the rod bearings are just swapped, as in remove and replace? There's no clearance measurements taken?

Yup, just swapped. I would have measured it but unfortunately, I have no way of truely measuring anything meaningful with only the cap coming all the way out of the engine.

[Rat3d ///M]

Originally Posted by aussiem3

to be honest it's not a DIY for me. I don't have the confidence. Kudos to you for doing it.

I'm afraid I am in the same boat. I honestly can't remember the last time I have paid someone to work on any of my cars. I am a DIY type guy. I hate wasting money on labor when I am more than capable of doing something myself, and I prefer it that way, as I know if I am the one doing it, the job is getting done correctly.

That being said, I am not a tech. Just an average guy who enjoys working on cars. I might feel comfortable tackling this if there were a step by step DIY with pictures, but without it, I don't have the mechanical knowledge or confidence to do the job myself I'm afraid.

Is this a job that an average DIY'er could handle with some step by step guidance, or is it a job best left for professionals?

[xpunisherx]

Originally Posted by e92zero

Thanks for the kind words. If memory serves me right, the sections that I did read through are the subframe, oil sump, suspension, and brakes section. I pretty much only used the TIS for the torque specs for all the bolts that I removed and noted down any particular sequence/order. The only thing that stood out was how it call to tighten the bolts on the subframe from front to back which I followed. Other than that, I just went at it. When removing bolts on structure/components, I never remove one all the way out in one shot, I loosen them up a bit at a time from outside inward to avoid warping. Reverse when tightening. Good luck and let me know if you have any other questions.

I will absolutely have to pick your brain when the time comes for me. 24,000 miles on the clock now, and I plan to do it before I get to 50K. Thanks again for this wealth of information!

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by W///

There's one thing I know for sure though. Took the E92 out on a mountain run yesterday, and I'm more convinced that I adore this car. Happy new years!!

+1

Wishing you the same