Rod bearing change at 86k miles

[e92zero]

I just changed my rod bearings at 86k miles with WPC treated OEM one and ARP bolts. I pretty much followed the post by Rennwerks here:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1018487

Bearings were assembled with Clevite assembly lube and the bolts with ARP lube. After putting everything back together, I pulled the #39 fuse to disable the coil and fuel injectors and just crank the engine with the starter to prime the oil pump. Not sure if that's the golden rule but I read a lot of people do it this way. It took a good few turns for the engine to build any oil pressure. After that I start the engine and everything was good.

I did it in my garage with jacks and jack stands. Overall, it's not a tough job but it's very time consuming. I took the chance to put in the Vibra-Technics motor mount, VFE oil cooler, new PS reservoir and a flush on the system, new deflection pulleys and belts. Car feels great now with oil temp, oil pressure, coolant temp back to 'normal'. I do have a set of stack gauges to monitor these.

I have been following the bearings threads through out and what prompted me to do it now is because I noticed my oil/coolant temp was creeping up during my same freeway commute for apparently no reason, along with my oil pressure has also been dropping in the last 10k miles or so. Are these definite clues to bearings wear? I don't know for sure but from my driving after the bearing change, they definitely seem to be correlated. So I would highly recommend at least an oil pressure gauge for those that worry about their bearings.

Background on my car: I took delivery in Aug 2010. It's an early 2011 model. I am old school so break in was done as follow: never exceeded 3500 rpm the first 1200 miles. The next 7000 miles, I gradually increase the rpm until I hit red line. At 8200, I did an oil change and call break in complete. Oil change was with Castrol 10w60 every 7500 miles after that. At 67500, I switched over to M1 0w40 and oil change was done at 5000 miles. You can find my post on the M1 0w40 and oil analysis reports. I believe I have one of the cleanest report posted on this forum. I am the only driver of this car, never tracked, never abused. Never exceeded 3500 rpm until oil is up to operating temp. Never approached redline until I have an oil level reading. Mostly freeway commute and rarely hit redlines. Only on special 'occasions'. Car has no leak and doesn't burn any oil between change interval -- oil level never drop. (edit/add) There are also talk of fuel system/detonation issue causing the accelerated bearing wears so I figure I will add this here as background. My car has no hick-up at all in this area, no problem with any servo/sensors/coils. Spark plugs were changed at 35k miles. 2 tanks before I change the plugs, I would put in Techron concentrated fuel system cleaner in the tank. Evolve Stage 1 tune was put on the car at 38k miles. Main reason was for the smoother throttle response and the cold start removal as I cannot think of one reason that it's healthy for the engine to rev at 1500 rpm as soon as it's started when cold. Redline was not changed with the tune.

Finding: I have no idea how much longer these bearings will last but they do show wear pattern consistent with other bearings have shown on this forum. What's interesting is that a couple of them kinda just pop right off the cap as I was removing them which make me feel they are on the loose side already. Also the back side of the top bearings on cylinder 5-8 are significantly darker than the other ones. I don't have any idea what it means and if it will show up on the pictures. All the used bearings are the 703/702 family and the marking/numbers on them are all 0690B. The new bearings are also of the same family with the blue ones (top) having 1284A marking while the red ones (bottom) having 1274C. I don't have the slightest clue as to what these numbers mean but figure I would just put them here. I have a habit of having extra for just in case scenarios so I ordered 9 sets of bearings and have them treated. So I have one set left over and you can see the comparison with the old ones in the pictures. (edit/add) On the other hand, I don't think my engine have any side clearance issue that was discussed in the other threads. I don't have the equipment to measure it. However, the side of the rods/caps look perfect with almost all of the criss-cross pattern (from machining/honing?) still in tack. The side of the crank also look perfect. No discoloration/spot of any sort. No rub marks like the ones shown in the clearance wiki. I also was able to shift them side to side with decent amount of play. Didn't BMW change the crank part number over the year? Maybe they adjusted something over time here? If I do this next time, I will use a feeder gauge to measure it. At the moment, I am not worry about side clearance on my engine.

Going forward: I will stick with Castrol 10w60. There should be more findings/results on how treated/coated bearings wear in the S65 in the coming years. If the new finding by MRF that ARP bolt is the solution, I will leave the engine alone. If not, I will attempt this again in another 85k miles and check back on the WPC bearings with the 10w60 and report back here.

Sorry for the long post and hopefully I put enough info here for a good data point for references by others. I have attached some of the pictures. The little arrow points to the front of the engine. You will notice some scratch on the bearings but they are from my handling them afterward. They don't have any sharp scatches/markings on them when removed. Top ones just all have a very polished/shinny look at the wear location.

I want to thank the members on this forum for all that I have learned to be able to catch this and perform this task before something bad happens. You guys are great. Happy New Year!

[Rupes]

God, if we all could have bearings that looked that good after 86k miles! Thanks for sharing. They aren't perfect of course, but I am guessing you could have easily doubled the mileage and still had some decent looking bearings. This puts more faith for me in oil analysis if yours were always clean.

[e92zero]

Thanks but I doubt I can double the mileage on them. They don't show up on the pictures because my camera is really old. Almost all of them look like they worn through a layer or 2 already. I also couldn't find an explanation for the apparent darkening of the back side of 5-8 top shells.

[Rupes]

I'll allow others to chime in, I just have seen much, much worse in functioning condition which is why I suggested the "double" number. Who knows though, right? Either way, it gives me some pause when I see older bearings in this condition. Good news for owners looking to keep their car a while.

[e92zero]

yup yup. I see what you mean. I plan to keep this car for as long as I can so I do hope to see/find a solution at some point.

[wrecklessfool]

I plan to post the same type of thread once I change mine out. I currently just turned over 12k miles on my 2012 (10/11 build), so it will be interesting to add a lower mileage sample to the mix. Currently we mostly have bearings between 30-85k miles as examples of wear patterns with a few below 20k here and there. Thanks for posting.

[Hujan]

Interesting findings. Based on the current state of knowledge, I'd say WPC treated bearings and ARP bolts is the safest bet, though of course there is still very much uncertainty. If I were to do my bearings today, I would choose WPC and ARP.

[Flea7]

As the issue of rod bearings continues, I think a lot of people are looking to DIY bearing swap......me included. I have a lift in my garage so it should make it easier. What kind of transverse motor support did you use?

Thanks for posting!

[e92zero]

A lot of people said the Harbor Freight one is good enough. I checked that out in person and didn't like the weld and the padding on it. So I ended up ordering the OTC one from Aamazon:

http://www.amazon.com/OTC-4324-Sting.../dp/B0002SR47C

[jdamore]

Thanks OP! Good stuff!
Can you hurry and put the milage on so you can report back your success!

Subscribed!

[Flea7]

Great! Thank you! Any additional info & pics are greatly appreciated.

[Beedub]

total respect for the home DIYers that do this on their back in the garage on the floor. serious respect.

[e92zero]

If you follow the guide by Rennerks, it should be pretty straight forward. Just take your time and note down all the bolts location and the lines routeings (which ever ones you removed). Pictures are great for these.

A couple things to note:

- highly recommend the ARP bolts. It will make your life much easier, especially if you are doing this with your back on the ground. If the other thread finding is true, then there is really no reason not to use them anyway.

- if you are changing the engine mounts, I put them on the subframe first but didn't tighten them all the way, just enough that the dowel pin is in so it won't spin. It will give you some room to move them a bit to line them up with the engine brackets.

- the bolts that mounts the oil tube to the engine block seems to have thread locking compounds on them. I cleaned up the old one and used the blue surface insenstive one back on these bolts. Same thing with the steering knuckle bolt at the bottom near the steering rack that you will have to remove. I cleaned this one and used new thread locks on it.

- (edit/add) there is not much room to work with the top shells. Shift the top shells back and forth along the same direction as the engine and it will come loosen/off after a few times. This means across the rod and not radially. Make sure the rod and the bearing do not come into contact with the journal. This is the easiest way I found to get the top off. Do not try to use anything to pick them out, you will scratch up something.

- when putting the subframe back together, after I positioned it back up before tightening everything back down, I used the rear 2 most bolts (they are the stretch bolts) to line it back up to the exact location as before. These bolts have washers that have 4 notches in them. And I spin the washers til those 4 notches lined right back up to their old marks and indentations. You will know what I mean when you get there. I think this is the easiest way to make sure the subframe is in the same spot as before. The manual call for these bolts to be tighten up last so don't crank them all the way down, just hand tighten them to more or less lock the subframe back in position and you should be good.

- (edit/add) if you use the fuse pulling method (#39 on 2011) to prime your engine, the check engine light will be on complaining about fuel pump. You can reset this afterward. I just let it be and it went away after a few cycles.

Other than those, I think everything else should be pretty straight forward. Just take your time and it should be kind of fun. Let me know if you have any questions.

[e92zero]

Here is a picture of how I raised the subframe in a level way back up to the car. Don't laugh as it's kinda a hack but it works perfectly. :P

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by Rupes

God, if we all could have bearings that looked that good after 86k miles! Thanks for sharing. They aren't perfect of course, but I am guessing you could have easily doubled the mileage and still had some decent looking bearings. This puts more faith for me in oil analysis if yours were always clean.

+1! OP had great looking bearings

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

+1! OP had great looking bearings

+ 2 !
Would love to have bearings in that condition even in my situation with only 32K on it .
Anyway OP took the right decision knowing what's going on !
But seeing OP bearings with 86K on it makes it's very clear that something must be wrong from when our S65's were built in the factory ...perhaps like I said before maybe mounting or fitting problems of the bearings !
And Op is using Castrol TWS 10W60 and a lot of people change to M1 because they think Castrol is not good ?...
I just want to mention that we saw blown engines with only 6K on it and built of end of 2013 , and when we look at OP's bearings and with 86K on it.....Well..where of what is the difference....Maybe the blown S65's were built on mondays... ?!?!
EDIT...Forgot to say OP thanks for sharing

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by e92zero

Here is a picture of how I raised the subframe in a level way back up to the car. Don't laugh as it's kinda a hack but it works perfectly. :P

Thats just Old School...

[whats77inaname]

Thanks for posting. How long would you say this took you?

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

+ 2 !
Would love to have bearings in that condition even in my situation with only 32K on it .
Anyway OP took the right decision knowing what's going on !
But seeing OP bearings with 86K on it makes it's very clear that something must be wrong from when our S65's were built in the factory ...perhaps like I said before maybe mounting or fitting problems of the bearings !
And Op is using Castrol TWS 10W60 and a lot of people change to M1 because they think Castrol is not good ?...
I just want to mention that we saw blown engines with only 6K on it and built of end of 2013 , and when we look at OP's bearings and with 86K on it.....Well..where of what is the difference....Maybe the blown S65's were built on mondays... ?!?!
EDIT...Forgot to say OP thanks for sharing

OP used castrol 10W60, at 7,500 mile intervals, but then switched to M1 0W40 with 5,000 mile intervals. We don't have enough evidence to show that M1 was superior, but this is at least a big statement for lower oil change intervals. Castrol 10W60 with 15K oil change intervals, would not have produced pristine bearings like this.

Lower oil change intervals like OP's also proves why none of the track guys in the track section see bearing issues. They most likely have bearings that look like OP's!

The bad BMW engines must have been assembled during bayern munich games!

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

OP used castrol 10W60, at 7,500 mile intervals, but then switched to M1 0W40 with 5,000 mile intervals. We don't have enough evidence to show that M1 was superior, but this is at least a big statement for lower oil change intervals. Castrol 10W60 with 15K oil change intervals, would not have produced pristine bearings like this.

Lower oil change intervals like OP's also proves why none of the track guys in the track section see bearing issues. They most likely have bearings that look like OP's!

The bad BMW engines must have been assembled during bayern munich games!

With Munich games I suppose you meant...Beer fest ?
Back serious now...It's realy strange you guys,so actualy US guys almost never talk about the Castrol 10W60 Profesional EDGE ?
My BMW/Dealer changed/updated last year from TWS to EDGE and I noticed that my engine runs mutch smoother and consumes almost no oil anymore ?

[Rat3d ///M]

I definitely want to do my rod bearings at some point. What would everyone say is the absolute longest they would go on OEM bearings before taking the plunge and replacing them? I am at 43k miles now and the car was very well taken care of with proper break in and all dealer maintenance done on time. I have no reasons to worry yet but the only thing that makes me nervous is the previous owners did oil changes around 13500 miles and never did a DIY oil change in between. I am going to start that trend next month with a Blackstone analysis but the damage may have already been done.

[squartus]

Its hard to say, my bearings a 31k looked MUCH worse than the OPs at 80k. That's with oil changes at 7500 proper warm up etc.

I wouldn't let it go past 50k without a bearing change, danger scale just starts getting to high past that. Some spin bearings at 20k some at 70k just a gamble