M3 vs. 335is - which is faster?

Reading this thread (and all the other related ones) remind me of a great episode of Top Gear comparing the M3, C63AMG, and RS4. The entire video is good, but the "mine is bigger than yours" section (like all these threads end up) starts at 6 minutes until the end. Entire clip is worth the time. Makes me want to go to the track.

footie wrote

I'm more interested to see track times, if only to see what improvement have been made else where.

Yes that is what I mean by "how it performs".

Back on topic guys....I believe the M3 would be faster stock for stock.


What is your opinion?

335is will be slower, but I am curious what tech they have added. I think it might get EDC... obviously we know it gets DCT and suspension upgrades. One thing it won't have is a mechanical LSD

mkoesel wrote

obviously we know it gets DCT and suspension upgrades. One thing it won't have is a mechanical LSD

Which, IMO, is a must. If I was into modifying cars, that is probably the first thing I would change on my previous 335i. It is hard to put the power down without LSD. Way too easy to break the rear tire loose.

RichB wrote

Which, IMO, is a must. If I was into modifying cars, that is probably the first thing I would change on my previous 335i. It is hard to put the power down without LSD. Way too easy to break the rear tire loose.

I agree the LSD is a big piece of the M puzzle. Cayman S (to my knowledge) still does not have one, and this is a common complaint about that car when comparing to the M3.

xxe92xx wrote

point being i dont find this interesting at all theres other cars that could be discussed....

It's quite easy: There's no need to participate in this discussion if you're not interested.

Besides, we should not derail this thread by discussing if the discussion is worth being discussed. Back to topic, please.


Best regards,
south

mkoesel wrote

I agree the LSD is a big piece of the M puzzle. Cayman S (to my knowledge) still does not have one, and this is a common complaint about that car when comparing to the M3.

You can get an LSD for the facelifted Cayman S as a factory option.


Best regards,
south

It sounds like the 335is may be inheriting many of the ///M components from the M3 (i.e., DCT, LSD, etc...). If this happens to be true, then I can see the 335is giving the M3 a run for its money because it will essentially be close to an M3 with a different engine. However, the chances of all of these unique M components making it into a non-M car may be slim unless of course, the M division has developed superior components in which they will be updating the M3 with. Either way, M cars should always outperform their non-M variant. It makes no sense in terms of marketing or heritage for BMW to make non-M cars comparable to their M brothers in terms of performance and style. If so, the M Division may be working itself out of a job LOL!

-SZ

If the 335is would get some additional tech gizmos, for sure they would be reflected in a sensible price hike....if 335is happens to come close to M3 in terms of pricing, then it's a no brainer to choose the M3 over the overpriced 3 series...

RichB wrote

Which, IMO, is a must. If I was into modifying cars, that is probably the first thing I would change on my previous 335i. It is hard to put the power down without LSD. Way too easy to break the rear tire loose.

+1

Unless on the perfect road surface, my previous 335i was a nightmare on the 1st and 2nd gear....

brava09 wrote

If the 335is would get some additional tech gizmos, for sure they would be reflected in a sensible price hike....if 335is happens to come close to M3 in terms of pricing, then it's a no brainer to choose the M3 over the overpriced 3 series...

Based on previous "performance upgrade" prices on the E46 models, I estimate the 335is will start at least $5k more than the regular 335i.

$2k for the power hike (similar to the Perf catalog item), $2k for the modified aero, $1k for any suspension changes, plus assorted cosmetic items that are unknown at this point.

There is a good chance it will get some sort of EDC as an option, I think similar to what the Z4 has - but not standard perhaps? Another point is that it will come with runflats, so figure at least another $1200-1500 for a tire swap, more if you want to do wheels too.

In any case, if it starts at $45k and gets to $50k by the time you add a few options, then I would still prefer the M3. It's not hard for BMW to improve the handling on the "is", but if they still tune it for the harsh runflats, it will not have that extra edge that the M has. IMO.

I just hope the newer* 3 series don't get the gawd-awful grills like the new 7's. But interesting that there will even be an *IS. Has BWM ever made a mechanical LSD non-M car?

artifice wrote

Has BWM ever made a mechanical LSD non-M car?

Yes, many. My 1990 325i had one. The last car to feature one, as far as I can tell, was the 2000 or 2001 Z3 3.0.

Well then.

Cool. But they forgot to list:

- Big block of ice for even more cooling.

- A refrigerator - for even more cooling that that.

I don't think that's the full spec list though...

Here's more, I guess:

Official 2011 BMW 335is Coupe & Cabriolet info! 322hp / 332tq (369tq w/ overboost)

Meh. Why both a 6AT and M-DCT? And it appears no suspension changes or anything else that would effect performance other than the engine and transmission. Plus it only get 322hp apparently. Nothing to see here really, I guess. BMW crippled it plenty to give a comfortable distance between it and the M3.

I hope the new 335is will keep up with the Audi S4....as for the M3, the 335is is not even close.

brava09 wrote

I hope the new 335is will keep up with the Audi S4....as for the M3, the 335is is not even close.

I think the title of the thread was very much tongue in cheek, but as for the opinion of competing with the S4 then that is most definitely BMW's primary goal with this car. Especially as this will be the first DCT 3 series sold stateside apart from the M3, another similarity with the S4, as is the output figures which are closer than ever before.

This car should pull back a few that may have either thought of switching to the four rings or any other brand.

acs1.35i wrote

It's an open door. We all know. I am the only one to say it out loud: the .35i is much faster than the M3. Lets face it. It's that simple. Here is just one video:
dragrace 135i vs. e92m3

People just do not get it !
It's not about drag racing- it's about racing on a real track with a lot of turns/twists. The M3 will smoke many cars on a REAL TRACK. If you want to drag race- buy a viper/mustang/corvette etc. We all know that the c63 AMG is fast in a straight line, but the car is a slob around corners. It really doesn't bother me as there are always faster cars. Plus it's getting more and more difficult to speed on the streets nowadays with all the cameras etc. Time to head for the track !!

footie wrote

I think the title of the thread was very much tongue in cheek,

Yep.

but as for the opinion of competing with the S4 then that is most definitely BMW's primary goal with this car.

There's only one problem though: the 335is is coupe and convertible only, and the S4 is sedan and wagon (edit only sedan in the US, which is where the 335is primary market is). So, in reality they are only competing in a very select few cases where the buyer doesn't care about the form factor or their car.

There is the S5 of course, and that seems like the more direct competitor here. It comes in coupe and convertible just like the 335is, although the coupe still has the V8 as far as I know, whereas the convertible does have the supercharged V6. Power wise though, the engines are pretty close to each other and yes pretty close to the 335is as well.

Alright then. Next thread: M3 vs. M1. We'll see if we can pull some more haters out of the woodwork.

mkoesel wrote

Yep.



There's only one problem though: the 335is is coupe and sedan only, and the S4 is sedan and wagon only. So, in reality they are only competing in a very select few cases where the buyer doesn't care about the form factor or their car.

There is the S5 of course, and that seems like the more direct competitor here. It comes in coupe and convertible just like the 335is, although the coupe still has the V8 as far as I know, whereas the convertible does have the supercharged V6. Power wise though, the engines are pretty close to each other and yes pretty close to the 335is as well.

You are quite right about this, though in the not to distant future the S5 may very well switch to the V6 as well, though as of yet there has been no confirmation from Audi on this. Probably best to say that this model was developed to compete with the S4/S5 and leave it at that.

mkoesel wrote

Alright then. Next thread: M3 vs. M1. We'll see if we can pull some more haters out of the woodwork.

Well I bet I could get more hatred going with a TT-RS vs M3 thread but then that only get most of the hatred directed at me and not the cars. As for such a thread about the M1 and M3, to many I see it as a logical step, especially for the ones already complaining about the weight of the present M3, but as one is close to ending it's life cycle and the other in the process of about to begin it's I don't really see a thread generating the kind of interest needed to get a great debate going.

Now if it was to debate the TT-RS vs M1, well then I think a good few hundred posted would be easily achieved, especially as both models with offer manual and DCT at the same time, you are sure to get all the hatred one could ever wish for.