SERIOUSLY WTF? 1,769miles +1qt?

I know some people tend to exagerate on forums, but I will post pictures indicating actual miles and my frustrating experience with my service visit. Even though my M3 is a DD, I work relatively close to home and as a result I don't put too many miles on the clock. After my 1,200 mile service I waited 1 full year to get my oil changed, exactly 10,726 miles in 12 mos. So this last Oct.7th I took the car in for a free low mileage oil change (no filter, etc.).



When I picked up the car, the oil level was reading just like it was prior to taking it in (1/2). I talked myself out of thinking they didn't even change the oil and just wrote it off as another example of the crappy Edipstick. I decided to drive it around for a few days to see if it would self adjust. A few days turned into a few weeks and still at 1/2. I called my SA and he said no biggy this is normal. I know this the car likes to drink a bit of oil, but this soon after an oil change, which should have put the exact amount of oil needed? He said keep driving it and when it says +1qt come in and he would give me a free qt like he always does (great customer service from my SA).



Fast forward to Monday Friday Dec. 25th. My car is now displaying +1qt., 2 1/2 months later and 1,769 miles later! So did my car really chew through a whole qt? Did the oil even get changed? Or is the oil level sensor faulty? Seems like these are my 3 options for any logical explanation.... thoughts?

I would say that they didn't nail the oil level when they changed it man. I walked back in the shop to talk to the tech when I was having my 16k service. There was an unrelated rattle that he was unable to duplicate and he wanted to talk to me. Anyway, when I walked up to the car, he was visibly aggrevated with the oil level indicator. I think it's just a pain in the ass for them sometimes to get it perfect.

I doubt they didn't change your oil - that is pretty serious fraud on their part. I would just add a quart and monitor.

Singletrack wrote

I would say that they didn't nail the oil level when they changed it man. I walked back in the shop to talk to the tech when I was having my 16k service. There was an unrelated rattle that he was unable to duplicate and he wanted to talk to me. Anyway, when I walked up to the car, he was visibly aggrevated with the oil level indicator. I think it's just a pain in the ass for them sometimes to get it perfect.

I doubt they didn't change your oil - that is pretty serious fraud on their part. I would just add a quart and monitor.

Though it is a very small possiblity, I do think it is extremely unlikely the oil wasn't changed. Though a part of me wants to send a sample to Blackstone Laboratories out of curiousity. I still don't know why the mechanics would even care what the sensor is reading while filling it back up. Once drained, don't they know exactly how much they need to put back into the engine? What is the oil capacity of the engine? Is'nt it 9.3 quarts w/ filter? If you know that, how could you be off by a whole qt after an oil change? That's all I'm saying....

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129886

Calm down buddy . First of all, worse case scenario is your engine drank HALF a quart, not a full quart, since it was at the middle (per your own admission).
Now, I posted this a ton of times, but let me do it once more. You can't trust the oil gauge if you don't 'reset' it properly. Best way to do it is with the engine fully hot (15+ miles of driving), on the same spot, IDLING, then pressing the stalk end button while on oil mode. It should take less than a minute to record oil level. That's your correct level, but you also need to remember the sensor is graduated in 1/4-lt increments, so it still won't be perfectly accurate that way. They way I do it is I top off oil level myself (little by little over time) until it jumps to the top mark. At that point you know if right at the top. Check oil level in 1K-mile increments (the way I described above, not just looking at the gauge while driving) and you'll know much more accurately how much it's consuming. By the way, I always keep oil topped up myself, just like on my other cars, but many owners believe in following the manual like if it was a bible (Germans think we're stupid IMO), so those guys need not apply. Only problem with the manual approach is you're running your engine low on oil when close to a quart low, and if you don't carry a freaking quart in your trunk when the message 'add +1 quart or risk engine damage' pops up, it can become a major inconvenience on a trip. Just knowing how the sensor works, how to add oil, and how to read oil level, you can treat it like a half-a$$ dipstick (with 1/4-qt increments) . Your call, but at any rate, 1/2-qt in 1.8K miles (1-qt every 3.6K miles) is not bad at all in M-land buddy .

Forgot to comment on the oil filter. Not replacing it is crazy IMO. I'm pretty sure any oil change calls for filter change (even the low-mileage one, which I'll also get), but if they didn't replace it, I'd do it myself asap. It's pretty cheap, and quite easy to replace as well (cap is on top of engine). Take care.

elp_jc wrote

Calm down buddy .........

Ditto, buddy

elp_jc wrote

....They way I do it is I top off oil level myself (little by little over time) until it jumps to the top mark. At that point you know if right at the top....... but many owners believe in following the manual like if it was a bible (Germans think we're stupid IMO), so those guys need not apply. Only problem with the manual approach is you're running your engine low on oil when close to a quart low.......Your call, but at any rate, 1/2-qt in 1.8K miles (1-qt every 3.6K miles) is not bad at all in M-land buddy .

Well buddy, I'll stick to the manual. Your method is going to take an already inaccurate dipstick and make it even more unreliable. BTW, I have been residing in "M-land" for about 12years and 4 M cars, buddy! If you have read any of the threads on here, many owners report very little to amost no oil consumption. I think 1/2qt in 1,800miles is exessive! I have owned two S54 engines and they had very little consumption (~1/2qt in 10k miles) Besides, if you follow the manual there is no need to let it get down to +1qt, you can add 1/2qt when it gets to that point.

elp_jc wrote

Forgot to comment on the oil filter. Not replacing it is crazy IMO. I'm pretty sure any oil change calls for filter change (even the low-mileage one, which I'll also get), but if they didn't replace it, I'd do it myself asap. It's pretty cheap, and quite easy to replace as well (cap is on top of engine). Take care.

I never said they didn't replace the oil filter. Take care.

///Metak wrote

I never said they didn't replace the oil filter. Take care.

I think the comment from your first post (see below) is why he thought you didn't change the oil.

///Metak wrote

So this last Oct.7th I took the car in for a free low mileage oil change (no filter, etc.).

gthal wrote

I think the comment from your first post (see below) is why he thought you didn't change the oil.

Could be. The low mileage oil change includes oil/oil filter change. I figured that it was understood that the oil filter was part of the oil change. The filters, etc. I was refering to was the cabin filter, air filter, and etc.(wipers, blah, blah blah...) I understand the possible confusion.

I think they either came up short on the refill or didn't change the oil at all.

///Metak wrote

Though it is a very small possiblity, I do think it is extremely unlikely the oil wasn't changed. Though a part of me wants to send a sample to Blackstone Laboratories out of curiousity. I still don't know why the mechanics would even care what the sensor is reading while filling it back up. Once drained, don't they know exactly how much they need to put back into the engine? What is the oil capacity of the engine? Is'nt it 9.3 quarts w/ filter? If you know that, how could you be off by a whole qt after an oil change? That's all I'm saying....

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129886

You would think it would be that easy, but I can tell you from my personal experience that getting the oil perfect can be aggravating for the techs. Thus, I don't think it is as easy as you would think : ) If you search also, there are MANY people that had issues with oil being too low after the 1200 mile service. There is also a DIY that details the procedure to heat up the engine and measure the oil properly. Maybe they rushed it? In your defense, my dealership got it perfect in both my changes, but they also know I'm a serious ball-buster.

The problem with sending it to blackstone is that you would really need to drain quite a bit. They recommend that you sample the oil mid-stream, rather than at the beginning or the end.

How does the oil filter look? If it is totally filthy and you haven't driven it much, that could be a "tell" that they didn't change it.

///Metak wrote

I'll stick to the manual. Your method is going to take an already inaccurate dipstick and make it even more unreliable.

On the contrary, but am not going to argue; whatever makes you happy . Was just trying to help.

///Metak wrote

BTW, I have been residing in "M-land" for about 12years and 4 M cars

This is my first and last M, but I was going by what I read, including an extensive 'poll' on oil consumption. Oil consumption is not acceptable to me either, but seems to be a known M trait, so I'm expecting it. So far I'm still full with 1,500 miles since 1,200-mile oil change . Many owners report 1-qt in 1,500 miles, which is more than twice your supposed rate, so your car is not bad at all.

elp_jc wrote

This is my first and last M, but I was going by what I read, including an extensive 'poll' on oil consumption. Oil consumption is not acceptable to me either, but seems to be a known M trait, so I'm expecting it. So far I'm still full with 1,500 miles since 1,200-mile oil change . Many owners report 1-qt in 1,500 miles, which is more than twice your supposed rate, so your car is not bad at all.

Oil consumption is pretty normal with many high performance engines; it really is not limited to BMW M engines. Likewise, I wouldn't say there is any negative connotation that should be associated with it, unless it is truly excessive.

Singletrack wrote

Oil consumption is pretty normal with many high performance engines; it really is not limited to BMW M engines. Likewise, I wouldn't say there is any negative connotation that should be associated with it, unless it is truly excessive.

I guess that is the million $ question. What is excessive? This is not my first "high" performance car. But seems to me that 1qt every 1.5k is pretty bad. I will do a search for the DIY you are refering to. I've never changed the oil on this car but have done so on many different cars. You drain it, then you put in the recomended capacity. In this case 9.3qts. Seems straight forward to me. Maybe the dual sumps might add to the complexity of pinning down exactly how much oil to put in after draining, dunno?

Thanks for the feedback guys.

///Metak wrote

I guess that is the million $ question. What is excessive? This is not my first "high" performance car. But seems to me that 1qt every 1.5k is pretty bad. I will do a search for the DIY you are refering to. I've never changed the oil on this car but have done so on many different cars. You drain it, then you put in the recomended capacity. In this case 9.3qts. Seems straight forward to me. Maybe the dual sumps might add to the complexity of pinning down exactly how much oil to put in after draining, dunno?

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Concur - it isn't well defined, and I would guess that the shop foreman will give you a figure you do not like. I've seen people throw around the 1qt in 1k miles. I wouldn't accept that personally. On the other hand, 1k miles is not 1k miles - i.e. highway vs. track could make a big difference.

I wouldn't sweat it man. I bet they under-filled it, right on the verge of where it would show on the lowest setting. You drove it a little while, and it dropped. I had something similar happen to me after I had my oil cooler replaced (deer). I just filled it per the computer and monitored, and the oil consumption went back to normal.

If you keep burning 1qt every 1.5k miles, then that is a different story. This was the first time with that kind of consumption right? You said you had over 10k on the clock before the change...

///Metak wrote

But seems to me that 1qt every 1.5k is pretty bad.

Why you keep saying you're burning 1-qt every 1.5K miles if your oil level was at HALF after the oil change, which means 1/2-qt away from the 'add 1 qt' message?

Since you don't feel qualified to top off your oil, have your dealer do it for you and monitor it from there. You'd see that you won't get to the 'add +1' message until much later than 1,700 miles. Signing off this thread. Good luck man.

elp_jc wrote

Why you keep saying you're burning 1-qt every 1.5K miles if your oil level was at HALF after the oil change, which means 1/2-qt away from the 'add 1 qt' message?

Since you don't feel qualified to top off your oil, have your dealer do it for you and monitor it from there. You'd see that you won't get to the 'add +1' message until much later than 1,700 miles. Signing off this thread. Good luck man.

I have never seen this side of you??? Are you stupid or are you just in the mood to argue or something. I was directly refering to YOUR quote about how many owners report 1qt in 1,500 miles. Qualified? I suppose the dealership that did my oil change is more qualified since they more than likely underfilled it? I intentionally followed the dealerships advice to prove a point! I shouldn't have to be filling the car with a qt of oil 1,700 miles after an oil change, if it was done properly. Why is that so hard for you to understand? Well I guess we'll never know, since you "signed off" on this thread. Thanks!

elp_jc wrote

On the contrary, but am not going to argue; whatever makes you happy ........Many owners report 1-qt in 1,500 miles, which is more than twice your supposed rate, so your car is not bad at all.

Singletrack wrote

Concur - it isn't well defined, and I would guess that the shop foreman will give you a figure you do not like. I've seen people throw around the 1qt in 1k miles. I wouldn't accept that personally. On the other hand, 1k miles is not 1k miles - i.e. highway vs. track could make a big difference........If you keep burning 1qt every 1.5k miles, then that is a different story. This was the first time with that kind of consumption right? You said you had over 10k on the clock before the change...

Yeah I had 1/2qt at about ~6k and then as I said I was down about 1/2 at the time of the oil change but didn't fill it as I was getting it changed soon anyways. I am not really worried about the car, just a bit frustrated when I get doulbe-talk and the run around at the dealership. If they had said, "I'm affraid it is difficult to exactly fill this engine properly and it was a bit underfilled, here is a qt to top it off", I would fine with that, I am a totally reasonable person. But when they say it's perfectly normal to burn a 1qt every 1.5k? I will not accept that, especially since my car is being used as a DD(not tracked) and doesn't see past the light of 6k RPM as much as I would like....

Please guys, take it easy. Thanks!


Best regards,
south

I've got 11,000 miles and haven't had to add any.

Always a bit reluctant to post...this is the most ego sensitive forum I've ever participated in... Oil changed at 1200. Accumulated 5000 plus miles in the first year at next change. Added ~1/2 qt over that time. Since the change at 5500 mi accumulated ~2000 miles and the level just went to the mid level. I was thinking that was a bit more usage but based on feedback here it seems that the resolution is not that fine. Perhaps the original 'full' indication was 'just' high enough to indicate the 'full' measurement. Upon using just a bit of oil the measurement now is just a bit lower but registering 'half'. I've asked a few life BMW guys that convinced me to try BMW and they have said that the oil usage varies. Some have said that after 15K-17K the usage diminishes. Seems to vary.

Update
I was on a trip with the car. Pulled into the destination and got a low oil warning add one quart. After meetings found local dealer (Greensboro, NC) and took it over. They checked the level and added a quart. That is one quart in 4000 miles. I talked with their master M tech and he said that is not unusual, race motor.....It isn't considered an issue with the S65 unless it's 1 quart in 750 miles. Don't feel good about it. I haven't had to carry a spare quart in my trunk since my Chevy Vega :-) years ago. Oh well.