Custom ECU Tuners

tom @ eas wrote

As stated numerous times, dyno again a couple of weeks later and see if you reach the same power. Or don't - it's your $$.

Oh okay, so are you saying that when you posted that dyno chart after running those dyno runs, you hadn't waited a couple weeks in between for adaptations?

SilverSlug wrote

Oh okay, so are you saying that when you posted that dyno chart after running those dyno runs, you hadn't waited a couple weeks in between for adaptations?

No, the M3 was still strapped to the dyno during the update and plug change.

You're also bumping a 10 year old thread.

tom @ eas wrote

Looks like you're taking things out of context. The original thread was to explain how maintenance can regain lost (not additional) power. That particular M3 had 080E software and old spark plugs.

As stated numerous times, dyno again a couple of weeks later and see if you reach the same power. Or don't - it's your $$.

Ah ok, so if older software won't have a difference in power, old spark plugs would result in a 20hp power loss?

Not trying to take anything out of context... I'm still learning here

tom @ eas wrote

No, the M3 was still strapped to the dyno during the update and plug change.

You're also bumping a 10 year old thread.

Hmmm not to put EAS tush to the fire or anything, but seems a bit _____ to advertise tuning services by posting a "before/after dyno" chart, then later say that very dyno chart is actually inaccurate because you didn't wait for adaptations?

... is that why after 10 years that dyno chart just got deleted from that post

Its stuff like this why I agree with Z K on tuner services. Just saying. Love you either way.

SilverSlug wrote

Hmmm not to put EAS tush to the fire or anything, but seems a bit _____ to advertise tuning services by posting a dyno "before/after dyno" chart, then later say that very dyno chart is actually inaccurate because you didn't wait for adaptations?

... is that why that dyno chart just got deleted from that post

Just saying.

Nothing has been deleted. As mentioned before, software updates are not tunes.

About 7 posts ago, you didn't even know what adaptations were, and now you're going on the attack to someone that's been trying to help without trying to sell you something. Do some reading and learn before just asking random questions and spending unneeded money.

tom @ eas wrote

Nothing has been deleted. As mentioned before, software updates are not tunes.

About 7 posts ago, you didn't even know what adaptations were, and now you're going on the attack to someone that's been trying to help without trying to sell you something. Do some reading and learn before just asking random questions and spending unneeded money.

I'm very familiar with what adaptations are, Z K assumed I'm "new to all this" and you joined the bandwagon in that assumption.

And I'm honestly not trying to attack you or anyone, just open discourse... I appreciate your feedback, but how would you explain advertising a +20hp increase from a software update by posting that "before/after dyno" chart if now your stance is that software updates don't provide any gains?

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=686166

SilverSlug wrote

I'm very familiar with what adaptations are, Z K assumed I'm "new to all this" and you joined the bandwagon in that assumption.

And I'm honestly not trying to attack you or anyone, just open discourse... I appreciate your feedback, but how would you explain advertising a +20hp increase from a software update by posting that "before/after dyno" chart if now your stance is that software updates don't provide any gains?

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=686166

Again, this was explained in post #103. The gains were reclaimed power as a result of poor maintenance before adding a supercharger, not additional power. 308hp is well below the typical baseline threshold.

Best of luck on your tuning journey.

jp1984 wrote

This is easier than you may think!

Have you considered ECUWorx to tune your own mss60? That is what I did, It is really easy and it gives you total access to all the tuner options like CEL monitoring, SAP Delete, top speed delete, even lets you cap red lines based on engine temp.

It also lets you raise each gears redline AND (this is for the real pros) change out your rear diff ratio (though I wouldn't mess with that).

EcuWorx is a great easy to use interface. But using mss6xflasher you can read and write modified bin files. I was able to suppress SAP, secondary O2 DTCs, remove the top speed limiter, lower the cold start redline, remove the cold start cat heating. It's possible to change tuning tables too, but I don't touch any of that stuff. All public info if you search, hopefully some day the mss60 will be like the E46 M3 ecu where everything is open source and fully defined, they have a GitHub with fully defined .ols available to anyone.

tom @ eas wrote

Again, this was explained in post #103. The gains were reclaimed power as a result of poor maintenance before adding a supercharger, not additional power. 308hp is well below the typical baseline threshold.

Best of luck on your tuning journey.

I understand your explanation now, however it still doesn't explain advertising +20hp gains from a software update back then... Perhaps you were still learning about adaptations back then as well?

In any case, you/EAS are obviously very knowledgeable and highly experienced, I do appreciate your feedback regardless, and don't mean to put you on the spot, just wanted to inquire for clarification on seemingly conflicting info.

One way to settle all this... Let me use your dyno for my 241E vs Dinan comparison runs

Just my attempt to clear a few things up.

241E/240E and newer software versions contained changes that were said to not pull timing as aggressively, therefore giving the illusion of making more power in certain conditions. But in optimal conditions they'd both make the same power. Later software was also better at detecting misfires and other faults. Again all just rumors from others experience and BMW isn't going to confirm or give exact detail.

Now the part about "Tunes", and the two above arguing semantics. The dme software, let's say 241E is pretty complex but some like to break it down into two parts, the programmatic part of the dme, let's say contains all the logic and programming for what the car does and how. Then the "Tune" portion is the tuning parameters, usually referring to tables such as ignition timing, vanos, fuel, target afrs, etc etc.

Rumor has it BMW didn't really make any changes to the "Tune" portion from 240E to 241E so not much of an upgrade. The changes were mostly in the program part of the ecu.

Changes to the "Tune" portion is usually what is referred to as "Tuning" or a "Tune" (aftermarket).

That is how I understand it atleast.

tdott wrote

Just my attempt to clear a few things up.

241E/240E and newer software versions contained changes that were said to not pull timing as aggressively, therefore giving the illusion of making more power in certain conditions. But in optimal conditions they'd both make the same power. Later software was also better at detecting misfires and other faults. Again all just rumors from others experience and BMW isn't going to confirm or give exact detail.

Now the part about "Tunes", and the two above arguing semantics. The dme software, let's say 241E is pretty complex but some like to break it down into two parts, the programmatic part of the dme, let's say contains all the logic and programming for what the car does and how. Then the "Tune" portion is the tuning parameters, usually referring to tables such as ignition timing, vanos, fuel, target afrs, etc etc.

Rumor has it BMW didn't really make any changes to the "Tune" portion from 240E to 241E so not much of an upgrade. The changes were mostly in the program part of the ecu.

Changes to the "Tune" portion is usually what is referred to as "Tuning" or a "Tune" (aftermarket).

That is how I understand it atleast.

Pretty spot on. Most changes on 241E were due to emissions, you'll find most tuners will stay on 240E when tuning while a few others go their own preferred route.

tdott wrote

EcuWorx is a great easy to use interface. But using mss6xflasher you can read and write modified bin files. I was able to suppress SAP, secondary O2 DTCs, remove the top speed limiter, lower the cold start redline, remove the cold start cat heating. It's possible to change tuning tables too, but I don't touch any of that stuff. All public info if you search, hopefully some day the mss60 will be like the E46 M3 ecu where everything is open source and fully defined, they have a GitHub with fully defined .ols available to anyone.

I am asking Martyn to add in an easy Euro MDM update! I don't see why it should be too hard considering everything I see in the MSS60 and MSS54 binary mod tools

Oh man, maybe I should ask Martyn what it would take to add GTS coding too. In MSS54 binary tool you can flash the CSL SMG updates so maybe it is possible.

SilverSlug wrote

I understand your explanation now, however it still doesn't explain advertising +20hp gains from a software update back then... Perhaps you were still learning about adaptations back then as well?

In any case, you/EAS are obviously very knowledgeable and highly experienced, I do appreciate your feedback regardless, and don't mean to put you on the spot, just wanted to inquire for clarification on seemingly conflicting info.

One way to settle all this... Let me use your dyno for my 241E vs Dinan comparison runs

I still don't think you are fully understanding what everyone has been telling you which is odd because you also got a little confrontational when it was pointed out.

The previous Dyno graph is showing something completely different from what you are asking

- if you had an 08 on its original OEM tune and updated to a newer OEM tune AND changed the spark plugs, you are able to recover about 20 hp that you lost. - This used to be called a "Tune up!"

- if you MOD your tune from the OEM 240E/2401E tunes to a Dinan tune you may pick up 6-9 wheel HP - but I don't know. Stage 1 Dinan tunes never made sense to me. There were always better options for same or lower price.

Message me if you want advice on who is putting in work tuning these cars still because this list of tunes below another poster noted are all junk - at least the BMW I am familiar with. (which is not an attack on the user)

"I have had flash tunes from Road Race Enginnering, Dinan, APR, Revo, COBB, 034 motorsports, Bootmod3 and GIAC on my various cars."


Also, as PS - these are very complicated pieces of machinery. Don't skimp out on the tune because you "can't see it" or it doesn't come in a Matte Forged Carbon Finish to show your friends.

It is literally the most important part of the car. Either leave it OEM or get a good tune. - sorry rant off.

jp1984 wrote

I still don't think you are fully understanding what everyone has been telling you which is odd because you also got a little confrontational when it was pointed out.

The previous Dyno graph is showing something completely different from what you are asking

- if you had an 08 on its original OEM tune and updated to a newer OEM tune AND changed the spark plugs, you are able to recover about 20 hp that you lost. - This used to be called a "Tune up!"

- if you MOD your tune from the OEM 240E/2401E tunes to a Dinan tune you may pick up 6-9 wheel HP - but I don't know. Stage 1 Dinan tunes never made sense to me. There were always better options for same or lower price.

Message me if you want advice on who is putting in work tuning these cars still because this list of tunes below another poster noted are all junk - at least the BMW I am familiar with. (which is not an attack on the user)

"I have had flash tunes from Road Race Enginnering, Dinan, APR, Revo, COBB, 034 motorsports, Bootmod3 and GIAC on my various cars."

Also, as PS - these are very complicated pieces of machinery. Don't skimp out on the tune because you "can't see it" or it doesn't come in a Matte Forged Carbon Finish to show your friends.

It is literally the most important part of the car. Either leave it OEM or get a good tune. - sorry rant off.

That was my post.

And those are not tunes I've had on my BMW M3 as I mentioned. It is all the tunes for all the cars I've owned in the past. Most of which were Japanese, some VW/Audi/Porsche and some BMWs - all of them were turbocharged cars.

I've just had shit luck and experience with most of these big name well known tuners. I wouldn't call them "junk", they all have decades of experience on the various platforms they tune for. Some work with me to fix the issues, some I've just taken the loss on. It's just not a good customer experience for the thousands I spend with them.

As I said before, I rather not tune the M3 - it really makes little difference for my use. A tune doesn't add much power, unlike turbocharged cars. And for the money, I'd get much faster lap times changing tires and brakes then a tune that adds ~10hp. Not to mention the "driver mod" of lots of track seat time.

After 10 years of tracking the M3, I'm quite used to it now. The car still looks and runs as it did when it was new - all on OEM DME software.

Z K wrote

That was my post.

And those are not tunes I've had on my BMW M3 as I mentioned. It is all the tunes for all the cars I've owned in the past. Most of which were Japanese, some VW/Audi/Porsche and some BMWs - all of them were turbocharged cars.

I've just had shit luck and experience with most of these big name well known tuners. I wouldn't call them "junk", they all have decades of experience on the various platforms they tune for. Some work with me to fix the issues, some I've just taken the loss on. It's just not a good customer experience for the thousands I spend with them.

As I said before, I rather not tune the M3 - it really makes little difference for my use. A tune doesn't add much power, unlike turbocharged cars. And for the money, I'd get much faster lap times changing tires and brakes then a tune that adds ~10hp. Not to mention the "driver mod" of lots of track seat time.

After 10 years of tracking the M3, I'm quite used to it now. The car still looks and runs as it did when it was new - all on OEM DME software.

It is true! BMW really nailed it on this one! One of the best all rounder cars of all time!

jp1984 wrote

I am asking Martyn to add in an easy Euro MDM update! I don't see why it should be too hard considering everything I see in the MSS60 and MSS54 binary mod tools

Oh man, maybe I should ask Martyn what it would take to add GTS coding too. In MSS54 binary tool you can flash the CSL SMG updates so maybe it is possible.

I don't believe the ecuworx software does anything coding related or transmission related.

Surely it can with enough effort, but there are already tools to do that stuff and seems outside of the focus of the software (Engine / DME Changes) .

tdott wrote

I don't believe the ecuworx software does anything coding related or transmission related.

Surely it can with enough effort, but there are already tools to do that stuff and seems outside of the focus of the software (Engine / DME Changes) .

Sir, you are correct, allow me to clarify further.

Essentially there are two tools for some basic coding. - in fact it is hard to call it that. My brother is a real computer programmer and we aint doing the same thing.

ECUWorx has a tool that is free that reads and backs up your cars bin file for editing. It takes about a full hour for a full read and bi-passes security. So you do a full read of your OG tune and make a bin file.

Then you take your bin file and load it into the "Binary Modification Tool" (This tool was $80 I think. Worth it to me.) Your file loads up, you are given several options to choose from including, raising Redline, throttling at cold temps, cold start delete, etc etc. All easy boxes to click however you desire.

You make your changes, you write back to your bin file and save (which will be called OG Tune - Modified) then go back to the ECUworx program you used to read your car, load up your OG Mod file and flash that back to the car with whatever changes you made.

Clear any weird codes and be happily on your way.

This is what I consider a ".5" tune. Minor adjustments to work as bespoke to the pleasure of the driver.

Getting the GTS tune was a little more difficult, but free!

ALSO I CANT STRESS THIS ENOUGH. MAKE SURE YOU USE THE CORRECT FLASHING CABLE OR YOU ARE EFFED. I USED THE BIMMERGEEKS CABLE. DO YOUR DUE DILIGENCE.


PPS Can anyone send me detailed directions on coding Euro MDM. I know it is not with these tools, I wish, I can't even find a walk through or good video. Thanks so much if you can.

jp1984 wrote

I still don't think you are fully understanding what everyone has been telling you which is odd because you also got a little confrontational when it was pointed out.

The previous Dyno graph is showing something completely different from what you are asking

- if you had an 08 on its original OEM tune and updated to a newer OEM tune AND changed the spark plugs, you are able to recover about 20 hp that you lost. - This used to be called a "Tune up!"

- if you MOD your tune from the OEM 240E/2401E tunes to a Dinan tune you may pick up 6-9 wheel HP - but I don't know. Stage 1 Dinan tunes never made sense to me. There were always better options for same or lower price.

Message me if you want advice on who is putting in work tuning these cars still because this list of tunes below another poster noted are all junk - at least the BMW I am familiar with. (which is not an attack on the user)

"I have had flash tunes from Road Race Enginnering, Dinan, APR, Revo, COBB, 034 motorsports, Bootmod3 and GIAC on my various cars."


Also, as PS - these are very complicated pieces of machinery. Don't skimp out on the tune because you "can't see it" or it doesn't come in a Matte Forged Carbon Finish to show your friends.

It is literally the most important part of the car. Either leave it OEM or get a good tune. - sorry rant off.

Respectfully, I understand everything very clearly. Are you certain you do?

I didn't want to keep dragging this out, and decided to leave it alone, but okay... I'll be your huckleberry.

"- if you had an 08 on its original OEM tune and updated to a newer OEM tune AND changed the spark plugs, you are able to recover about 20 hp that you lost. - This used to be called a 'Tune up!'"

...No, this is called none sense (respectfully).

Fresh spark plugs (especially on a stock car) are not going to net you +20hp of "lost horsepower."

And I was not referring to the 08 6MT with old spark plugs, which gained +18hp from the 231E update (and fresh spark plugs), but rather the 08 DCT with untouched spark plugs that gained +20hp solely from the 231E software update.

"...we wanted to perform a before/after test on software versions to prove this wasn't only a theory..."

"After updating, a 20hp gain in power was achieved"

My "confrontational" gripe/inquiry was regarding the contradictory information coming from EAS, which was advertising software update services that suggested a 231E update alone will net you +20hp, and referenced a before/after dyno chart, while that very same dyno chart is now deemed inaccurate because their stance now changed to: "No power gains from flashing different stock files, likely a false-positive result of clearing adaptations."

"Update your car and add some horsepower at the same time" ...yet, now that same software update won't achieve those gains? What changed?

jp1984 wrote

PPS Can anyone send me detailed directions on coding Euro MDM. I know it is not with these tools, I wish, I can't even find a walk through or good video. Thanks so much if you can.

Should be able to code this in via NCS Expert

MDYNAMIC_MODE_USA "aktiv" to "nicht_aktiv"
US-VEHICLE "nicht aktiv"

SilverSlug wrote

Respectfully, I understand everything very clearly. Are you certain you do?

I didn't want to keep dragging this out, and decided to leave it alone, but okay... I'll be your huckleberry.

"- if you had an 08 on its original OEM tune and updated to a newer OEM tune AND changed the spark plugs, you are able to recover about 20 hp that you lost. - This used to be called a 'Tune up!'"

...No, this is called none sense (respectfully).

Fresh spark plugs (especially on a stock car) are not going to net you +20hp of "lost horsepower."

Good luck. I dont know what to tell you. Most educated members here will tell you to replace plugs every 30k miles. I am not saying it is an instant -20hp and +20hp when done, but enjoy proving me wrong with with your "after market" 241E and Dinan tunes when you get them dynoed back to back.

I am really interested in seeing those graphs and am willing to eat crow, so like I said, good luck.

Again, I didn't want to keep dragging this out, nor put anyone on the spot; we can just chalk it up to EAS still learning about tuning/adaptations back then, which is fine... there is a learning curve for everyone, and its okay... its the main reason why we are all here.