SoManyBlueCars wroteRod bearings can be replaced for cheap nowadays and I had my both of my TAs rebuilt with carbon fiber infused gears for $825 OTD which will last much longer than plastic gears.Love these threads. Here goes:
The E9X is:
- the last NA M car. Ever.
- the last NA BMW. Ever.
- the last available without a screen in its dash.
- the last m3 available as a coupe, its original form.
- the only M3 to ever have a V8.
- the first available with a carbon fiber roof.
Those make it pretty significant in the history of BMW.
I grew up in the 90s. I have a huge crush on Japanese sports cars of that era. Kids who grew up in the 2000s will remember the e9x for winning every comparison it was in, its amazing sound, and exotic engine. They will idolize it just as idolize those 90s cars, however irrational it may be. As good examples become harder to find, prices will go up.
And finally, as to the rod bearing issue; the e9x is bullet proof aside from that and the TA issue. Anyone who really wants this car won't be put off by it, instead just setting aside an extra 4K when purchasing the car. If it's a good example, it may even have had it done with paperwork. It is by far the most reliable M3 made to that point.
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M3AN_S65 wroteReally? Could you tell me more about the CF gears?SoManyBlueCars wroteRod bearings can be replaced for cheap nowadays and I had my both of my TAs rebuilt with carbon fiber infused gears for $825 OTD which will last much longer than plastic gears.Love these threads. Here goes:
The E9X is:
- the last NA M car. Ever.
- the last NA BMW. Ever.
- the last available without a screen in its dash.
- the last m3 available as a coupe, its original form.
- the only M3 to ever have a V8.
- the first available with a carbon fiber roof.
Those make it pretty significant in the history of BMW.
I grew up in the 90s. I have a huge crush on Japanese sports cars of that era. Kids who grew up in the 2000s will remember the e9x for winning every comparison it was in, its amazing sound, and exotic engine. They will idolize it just as idolize those 90s cars, however irrational it may be. As good examples become harder to find, prices will go up.
And finally, as to the rod bearing issue; the e9x is bullet proof aside from that and the TA issue. Anyone who really wants this car won't be put off by it, instead just setting aside an extra 4K when purchasing the car. If it's a good example, it may even have had it done with paperwork. It is by far the most reliable M3 made to that point.
^MarkForged makes a 3D printer that would be great for producing those gears in CF.^
To the OP: it seems like what you're asking is, "will people still think I'm cool if I drive this car in a few years?" Some will, some won't. If you're worried about resale, you'll probably have to wait a LOT longer than you're willing to see these things appreciate in value, especially for driven examples. Certain color and option combinations will likely be very valuable in the future, but they'll be garage queens with <10k miles. As a brand, M is gaining popularity and has a pretty good back story which will certainly affect future values of anything bearing that brand and considered a classic by the enthusiast community. But you're talking about just a few years down the road: it'll be well over a decade before the values of any E9x M cars increase by any significant degree.
To the OP: it seems like what you're asking is, "will people still think I'm cool if I drive this car in a few years?" Some will, some won't. If you're worried about resale, you'll probably have to wait a LOT longer than you're willing to see these things appreciate in value, especially for driven examples. Certain color and option combinations will likely be very valuable in the future, but they'll be garage queens with <10k miles. As a brand, M is gaining popularity and has a pretty good back story which will certainly affect future values of anything bearing that brand and considered a classic by the enthusiast community. But you're talking about just a few years down the road: it'll be well over a decade before the values of any E9x M cars increase by any significant degree.
SoManyBlueCars wrotehttps://www.ecstuning.com/b-odometer-gears-parts/bmw-throttle-actuator-kit-5-03-12-09-e60-s85-12-05-04-10-e61-s85-03-04-07-10-e63-s85-07-05-07-10-e64-s85/og014~odo/Really? Could you tell me more about the CF gears?
Last na v8 with intoxicating noise and 3 pedals that can still fit in a normal size garage. Yeah baby!
Ngilbe36 wroteI guess I'll get my retirement lined up for next year when prices get crazy! Oh wait mine is DCT which is apparently worthless.
I hope they're right. These cars are amazing, there is no doubt about it.
McSwine wroteWhat are you hoping? That the values sky rocket due to being a collector car? As a member just mentioned to me, the pool of buyers today is 20 something year olds looking for a $25k M3. I don't really see the adults lined up for these cars and or willing to pay the high prices.I hope they're right. These cars are amazing, there is no doubt about it.
BOOF-M3 wroteI saw the same thing with the Toyota Supra. 15 Years ago you could pick up at clean Supra Turbo for around $30k. If find a clean low mileage car you probably looking at $70k.What are you hoping? That the values sky rocket due to being a collector car? As a member just mentioned to me, the pool of buyers today is 20 something year olds liking fodder a $25k M3. I don't really see the adults lined up for these cars and or willing to pay the high prices.
My favorite part about these articles how they say "Its the last (blah blah) M car". So far, basically every M3 has been the last something.
E30 M3 - The last 4 cylinder NA M3
E46 M3 - The last 6 cylinder NA M3
E90 M3 - The last 8 cylinder NA M3
F80 M3 - The last pure combustion M3 (possibly)
E30 M3 - The last 4 cylinder NA M3
E46 M3 - The last 6 cylinder NA M3
E90 M3 - The last 8 cylinder NA M3
F80 M3 - The last pure combustion M3 (possibly)
Dr. Dre wroteThose are 20 to 25 years old. This car is five years out of date. I'm not suggesting that the 2011 E90 Slicktop ZCP 6MT with low mileage will not jump in price, because we are already seeing that. But so far the E92's with mid mileage can be had for $30k and under. I have $100k on mine so I'm not expecting any kind of value in my lifetime on it.BOOF-M3 wroteI saw the same thing with the Toyota Supra. 15 Years ago you could pick up at clean Supra Turbo for around $30k. If find a clean low mileage car you probably looking at $70k.What are you hoping? That the values sky rocket due to being a collector car? As a member just mentioned to me, the pool of buyers today is 20 something year olds liking fodder a $25k M3. I don't really see the adults lined up for these cars and or willing to pay the high prices.
As with any of these types of internet articles, take it with a grain of salt.
It's great that people are seeing the car in a very positive and optimistic light going forward, but I'm not holding my breath waiting to cash in and strike it rich in "___ years"
And neither is that the point of the article, nor is it the reason why any of us own an E9x M3.
Many of us owners here know exactly what the E9x M3 represents for us and where it stands in the history of the M3 and BMW.
There are those of us picked up our E9x M3 knowing the F8x was going to be released with electric steering and a turbocharged engine that shares 75% of its development with the N55.
Many of us had a choice between a lightly used/new condition E9x or a brand new F8x for not much more (at the time) and chose the former.
Last NA V8? Scratch that out, it's not only that.
It's the last NA M-car period.
How is this different from "last NA 6-cylinder" or "last NA 4-cylinder"?
Well, when people say the E46 was the "last NA I-6" it's not true because the Z4 M continued to carry the torch for a number of years.
The E46 is the last NA I-6 M3, but it's not the last NA I-6 M-car...it's not even the last NA I-6 BMW (that distinction goes to the N52 powered _28i cars).
Last NA 4-cylinder? Same story.
So the E9x in being the last NA M-car holds a more distinctive place in the timeline.
NA M-cars, regardless of cylinder count, all have that racy, high-revving, sharp character to their engines. The sound of the ITBs induction roar as the revs build, the way the engines almost beg the driver to keep on revving, the predictability and how the power delivery doesn't overwhelm the chassis.
Drive the M3s across generations and you'll notice a trend.
Yea, over the years, weight/size became an issue, things got more plush, but the character was always the same. The balance of the engine and chassis, the sharpness of the throttle response, the road feel in the steering.
The way you can steer the car by manipulating the throttle, there is clearly a certain continuity to the character of the M3 prior to the F8x. And this is largely thanks to an NA engine.
The S54 and S65 are more similar than most people think. Go balls out in an E46 M3 and then hop into an E90 M3.
The E90 M3 just feels like a bigger, heavier, modern, faster interpretation of the same concept.
Same can be said with the E46 M3 to the Euro E36 M3.
Both changes saw increases in tech, power, and performance but still managed to do so without changing the character of the car.
But get into an F8x, and it's a different story. The power and torque delivery is so extreme that while they've created a hell of a capable car, it hasn't got the same soul. It's common knowledge that anyone getting into an S55 F8x needs to "relearn" their style of driving, because its character is so different.
Lastly, there's the issue of heritage. It sounds like badge snobbery to some but, really it's not. It's about admiration and respect for a name that was built through the passion of the people behind it.
The history and heritage of BMW Motorsport GmbH is filled with many quite legendary moments, the amalgamation of great engineers and great drivers.
BMW M-cars were always, in one way or another, related to some sort of racing program that BMW Motorsport was trying to pursue at the time.
The M88/S38 powered M-cars came about from M's efforts to race the M1 and ultimately derived from the M49 in the 3.0CSL, which marked the beginning of BMW Motorsport GmbH.
The S38 ended with the E34 M5. The successor E39 M5's S62 was used extensively in motorsport and the E60 M5's S85 was not ever used in factory backed racing, but the S85 was ultimately one of the fruits that could've only came about from the Formula One program of BMW-Williams F1.
The S14 in the E30 M3 needs no introduction, racing was the primary motive, sales was secondary.
For the E36 and early E46, BMW M continued to race the two chassis and built the P50B32 (based on S50B32) for racing.
The E46 saw the P54 based on S54 entered in racing. It was getting spanked by Porsche so BMW M created a bespoke P60B40 in the E46 M3 GTR and spanked Porsche. Porsche complained to the FIA, so BMW "sold a few" GTRs, then everyone figured out that for all practical intents and purposes, BMW wasn't selling any BMW M3 with a V8 necessary to fulfill the requirements of homologation. So BMW withdrew. This is no-doubt, one of the motivations for BMW M to create a V8 M3.
In comes the E90 generation and the E9x M3. Well with the S65, BMW was able to create the P65B40 and later the P65B44 that powered M3 race-cars in FIA GT racing and later, the Z4 GT3, GTE, GTLM, GTD, etc. BMW has been using V8s in racing henceforth.
Well, with the retirement of the Z4 GT_ in FIA, the M6 (and now M8) has taken its place. The current M3/M4 now have virtually no connection with any of BMW's factory racing programs.
Okay so why does this matter? I'm not a race-car driver. I'm not paid everytime BMW wins in a race.
It matters because this was the bloodline of the M-cars, and especially of the M3. Motorsport was the ethos of M and was the sole reason why BMW M became a thing in the first place, the reason for their passion, why they became well-known and successful, the reason BMW M-cars of lore felt like racing cars even when wrapped in plush bodywork.
As BMW fans, this represents a departure in the spirit and ideology, where the M3 of the future, will simply be a very fast, cool-looking, expensive version of a 3-series, instead of the M3 we knew in the past, the Motorsport 3-series.
In short, the article is simply recognizing that there is window of opportunity at the moment: a chance to buy a great enthusiast car that is still not too old, where decent examples are still around & reasonably priced, and still has all the heritage & "old school" attributes (hydraulic steering, NA engine, manual transmission, RWD) that is slowly being eliminated not just from modern M-cars, but from cars in general.
The article is saying that the window of opportunity is currently here, but don't expect it to last long.
Pretty soon, finding one that hasn't been molested and abused might cost an arm and a leg, so if you don't want to miss out on a great car, a car that neither BMW nor any other manufacturer are likely to build again, then make your move now.
What the article is NOT saying, is "OMG this is the next 250 GTO, invest now and cash out later!"
It's great that people are seeing the car in a very positive and optimistic light going forward, but I'm not holding my breath waiting to cash in and strike it rich in "___ years"
And neither is that the point of the article, nor is it the reason why any of us own an E9x M3.
Many of us owners here know exactly what the E9x M3 represents for us and where it stands in the history of the M3 and BMW.
There are those of us picked up our E9x M3 knowing the F8x was going to be released with electric steering and a turbocharged engine that shares 75% of its development with the N55.
Many of us had a choice between a lightly used/new condition E9x or a brand new F8x for not much more (at the time) and chose the former.
Last NA V8? Scratch that out, it's not only that.
It's the last NA M-car period.
How is this different from "last NA 6-cylinder" or "last NA 4-cylinder"?
Well, when people say the E46 was the "last NA I-6" it's not true because the Z4 M continued to carry the torch for a number of years.
The E46 is the last NA I-6 M3, but it's not the last NA I-6 M-car...it's not even the last NA I-6 BMW (that distinction goes to the N52 powered _28i cars).
Last NA 4-cylinder? Same story.
So the E9x in being the last NA M-car holds a more distinctive place in the timeline.
NA M-cars, regardless of cylinder count, all have that racy, high-revving, sharp character to their engines. The sound of the ITBs induction roar as the revs build, the way the engines almost beg the driver to keep on revving, the predictability and how the power delivery doesn't overwhelm the chassis.
Drive the M3s across generations and you'll notice a trend.
Yea, over the years, weight/size became an issue, things got more plush, but the character was always the same. The balance of the engine and chassis, the sharpness of the throttle response, the road feel in the steering.
The way you can steer the car by manipulating the throttle, there is clearly a certain continuity to the character of the M3 prior to the F8x. And this is largely thanks to an NA engine.
The S54 and S65 are more similar than most people think. Go balls out in an E46 M3 and then hop into an E90 M3.
The E90 M3 just feels like a bigger, heavier, modern, faster interpretation of the same concept.
Same can be said with the E46 M3 to the Euro E36 M3.
Both changes saw increases in tech, power, and performance but still managed to do so without changing the character of the car.
But get into an F8x, and it's a different story. The power and torque delivery is so extreme that while they've created a hell of a capable car, it hasn't got the same soul. It's common knowledge that anyone getting into an S55 F8x needs to "relearn" their style of driving, because its character is so different.
Lastly, there's the issue of heritage. It sounds like badge snobbery to some but, really it's not. It's about admiration and respect for a name that was built through the passion of the people behind it.
The history and heritage of BMW Motorsport GmbH is filled with many quite legendary moments, the amalgamation of great engineers and great drivers.
BMW M-cars were always, in one way or another, related to some sort of racing program that BMW Motorsport was trying to pursue at the time.
The M88/S38 powered M-cars came about from M's efforts to race the M1 and ultimately derived from the M49 in the 3.0CSL, which marked the beginning of BMW Motorsport GmbH.
The S38 ended with the E34 M5. The successor E39 M5's S62 was used extensively in motorsport and the E60 M5's S85 was not ever used in factory backed racing, but the S85 was ultimately one of the fruits that could've only came about from the Formula One program of BMW-Williams F1.
The S14 in the E30 M3 needs no introduction, racing was the primary motive, sales was secondary.
For the E36 and early E46, BMW M continued to race the two chassis and built the P50B32 (based on S50B32) for racing.
The E46 saw the P54 based on S54 entered in racing. It was getting spanked by Porsche so BMW M created a bespoke P60B40 in the E46 M3 GTR and spanked Porsche. Porsche complained to the FIA, so BMW "sold a few" GTRs, then everyone figured out that for all practical intents and purposes, BMW wasn't selling any BMW M3 with a V8 necessary to fulfill the requirements of homologation. So BMW withdrew. This is no-doubt, one of the motivations for BMW M to create a V8 M3.
In comes the E90 generation and the E9x M3. Well with the S65, BMW was able to create the P65B40 and later the P65B44 that powered M3 race-cars in FIA GT racing and later, the Z4 GT3, GTE, GTLM, GTD, etc. BMW has been using V8s in racing henceforth.
Well, with the retirement of the Z4 GT_ in FIA, the M6 (and now M8) has taken its place. The current M3/M4 now have virtually no connection with any of BMW's factory racing programs.
Okay so why does this matter? I'm not a race-car driver. I'm not paid everytime BMW wins in a race.
It matters because this was the bloodline of the M-cars, and especially of the M3. Motorsport was the ethos of M and was the sole reason why BMW M became a thing in the first place, the reason for their passion, why they became well-known and successful, the reason BMW M-cars of lore felt like racing cars even when wrapped in plush bodywork.
As BMW fans, this represents a departure in the spirit and ideology, where the M3 of the future, will simply be a very fast, cool-looking, expensive version of a 3-series, instead of the M3 we knew in the past, the Motorsport 3-series.
In short, the article is simply recognizing that there is window of opportunity at the moment: a chance to buy a great enthusiast car that is still not too old, where decent examples are still around & reasonably priced, and still has all the heritage & "old school" attributes (hydraulic steering, NA engine, manual transmission, RWD) that is slowly being eliminated not just from modern M-cars, but from cars in general.
The article is saying that the window of opportunity is currently here, but don't expect it to last long.
Pretty soon, finding one that hasn't been molested and abused might cost an arm and a leg, so if you don't want to miss out on a great car, a car that neither BMW nor any other manufacturer are likely to build again, then make your move now.
What the article is NOT saying, is "OMG this is the next 250 GTO, invest now and cash out later!"
It is impossible to guess what the value of our M3s will be in the future, because so much could change. So many of the cars that are bringing six-figure price tags at auction today were unloved and depreciated used cars 30 or 40 years ago, while auction darlings like the Ferrari Daytona, that were fetching $1 million a couple of years ago are now selling for a couple hundred thousand less. In the 1970s you could pick up a Series 1 or Series 2 E-Type for under $3,500, an Austin Healey 3000 for under $3,000, and clean TR-4s, TR-250s, and TR-6s were even cheaper. I (foolishly, it would turn out) passed on the purchase of a clean MGC roadster for under $2,000 and a clean Series 1 E-Type convertible (the 3.8 liter engine) for $3,000 when I bought my 1966 MGB, because I was concerned about being able to get parts. The lesson? Buy what you like driving today, keep it as long as you continue to enjoy it, and don't worry about what it will be worth tomorrow.
Law wroteYour whole piece was masterfully written. Thank you...
Many of us owners here know exactly what the E9x M3 represents for us and where it stands in the history of the M3 and BMW....
BOOF-M3 wroteI guess I'm hoping prices stabilize and maybe tick up a bit.What are you hoping? That the values sky rocket due to being a collector car? As a member just mentioned to me, the pool of buyers today is 20 something year olds looking for a $25k M3. I don't really see the adults lined up for these cars and or willing to pay the high prices.
And I was 60 when I bought my M3 last January, but whatever.
McSwine wroteVery cool 60. These cars do keep us young. Personally I'm hoping they do not tick up. I would like to buy another and another if the need or want arises.BOOF-M3 wroteI guess I'm hoping prices stabilize and maybe tick up a bit.What are you hoping? That the values sky rocket due to being a collector car? As a member just mentioned to me, the pool of buyers today is 20 something year olds looking for a $25k M3. I don't really see the adults lined up for these cars and or willing to pay the high prices.
And I was 60 when I bought my M3 last January, but whatever.
I just bought my first E9XM about 3 months ago at 42 years of age. I tend to own multiple examples of the same model before moving the next gen. For instance, I owned 5 36Ms before moving to the 46M.... owned 6 of them (still have one) before finally moving to the E90M.
Knowing myself, I'll own a few of these as well although I quite like my current example.
I pretty much agree with everything Law eloquently stated - these cars are more about "how" than the "what". It's the way they drive. The way they deliver power. The way they make you feel.... that makes them so good. Super clean/low mileage examples will tick up eventually but not for a while - I see prices continuing to fall as there's just too many of them out there.
Same thing happened with the 46M a few years back. Fell pretty low and then all of a sudden it became very hard to find a super nice one that wasn't all modded out and/or wrecked and/or just worn out and so the prices have risen sharply for cherry examples.
Knowing myself, I'll own a few of these as well although I quite like my current example.
I pretty much agree with everything Law eloquently stated - these cars are more about "how" than the "what". It's the way they drive. The way they deliver power. The way they make you feel.... that makes them so good. Super clean/low mileage examples will tick up eventually but not for a while - I see prices continuing to fall as there's just too many of them out there.
Same thing happened with the 46M a few years back. Fell pretty low and then all of a sudden it became very hard to find a super nice one that wasn't all modded out and/or wrecked and/or just worn out and so the prices have risen sharply for cherry examples.
BOOF-M3 wroteThank you, sir. I always enjoy reading your posts.Very cool 60. These cars do keep us young. Personally I'm hoping they do not tick up. I would like to buy another and another if the need or want arises.
Transfer wroteMy bet based on my near perfect crystal ball ... DCT cars will be prized as well once they go out of all BMW production post the F8xM and F87M cars. I've got one DCT and a few manuals. While the manuals will always be special the DCT is a hella fun as well and once it is sunset people will miss what they can't have.Ngilbe36 wroteI guess I'll get my retirement lined up for next year when prices get crazy! Oh wait mine is DCT which is apparently worthless.
