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03-25-2011, 04:46 PM | #45 |
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03-25-2011, 05:03 PM | #46 |
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Where's the popcorn smiley?! Haha
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03-25-2011, 05:28 PM | #47 | |
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Good luck to the OP on getting to the bottom of all of this and to any other customer who got one of these manipulated dyno charts. |
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03-25-2011, 05:47 PM | #48 |
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This is "proof" coming from OETuning competitors. It's not like it's a 3rd party saying they are fabricating dyno charts. it's powerchip which obviously still holds a grudge against Jeremy, and Robert who bashes OETuning everywhere he goes. There is no 3rd party here. People say "oh wait for the gintani fan boys". Well who are you? Your the gintani haters. Your not neutral here either. No one with an oetune has ever complained about there tune not being what OE says it is. Can't say the same for powerchip.
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03-25-2011, 06:05 PM | #49 |
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I have had my car tested independently twice and it made the so called "manipulated" gains over my old PC tune both times. Just putting it out there.
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03-25-2011, 06:21 PM | #50 | |
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Here's from the fan boys:
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03-25-2011, 06:22 PM | #51 | |
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Haha where have you been since "CAI" companies have been showing 10-30 hp gains....i didnt see you start a bullshit thread about how they where claiming crazy numbers...and we all friggin know that no cold air intake pulls in more than probably 5 HP...and that is if it doesnt actually loose you HP. Not only that most of the "Cold Air Intakes" are not even true "Cold Air Intakes"...where were you guys on this one. I think it is ridiculous that you guys do not care at all to get strong evidence before you try to rip down a company. I find it hilarious that 99% of the owners of these kits are saying that it is great company and their work is very professional...and then all the guys without the kits are the ones coming in saying that it is crap. If their tuning was such crap...dont you think there would be more people saying it is crap who are actually running their products in there car? I barely know anything about either side of the arguement...but honestly you guys claiming shit against this company are doing a horrible job of providing any proof for your ridiculous allegations. |
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03-25-2011, 06:37 PM | #52 | |
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03-25-2011, 07:37 PM | #53 | ||
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What a load of BS. Quote:
Agreed 100%. People talk alot of shit without having full knowledge or supporting data. Its also funny how fast "bad news" spreads around about a tuner. This is why I asked M33 if he can provide me with some evidence on supposed "blown MB motors" that Jeremy allegedly tuned. The only way I will believe this if I see it in front of me. Other then that, Im calling bullshit. I for one have never had one problem with the OE tune, been running it on my car for a year now and its running better then ever. |
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03-25-2011, 07:39 PM | #54 | |
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03-25-2011, 07:47 PM | #55 | |
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I was physically there the whole time when Jeremy was doing multiple runs on the dyno with my car. The gains are clearly shown and are felt. We have even done comparison runs (real world testing) with other stock C63's and the gains or VERY significant. Dynos are just measurement tools imo, real world testing is were it counts the most, and OE tuning is truly on top if its game. I wouldn't bash any other tuning if I didn't have evidence or heard something bad about them from person X. Last edited by phusion974; 03-25-2011 at 07:56 PM.. |
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03-25-2011, 08:00 PM | #56 |
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Three pages deep and still the question remains, "Were the numbers manipulated?"
Was it an isolated event, a single car phenom? (Everyone makes mistakes/Factory gets it real right sometimes.) or a systematic misrepresentation across multiple events? (Two points make a trend.) Not withstanding the original OP was pretty specific with the data, and used multiple sources to illustrate a point. At this time I have seen little other than conjecture to counter the OP's original assessment. |
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03-25-2011, 08:46 PM | #58 | |
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Mike@Powerchip posted this in another thread. Seems like he's willing to drop the gloves and end all the bullshit by puting his money where his mouth is. Good for you Mike.
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03-25-2011, 08:48 PM | #60 |
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that's Powerchip
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03-25-2011, 08:50 PM | #61 |
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03-25-2011, 10:29 PM | #62 |
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Another manipulated graph:
[img]http://www.****************/DynoGraphs/ID00023-1288748405-JONMARTIN.jpeg[/img] rpm % gain 2500 3000 3500 4000 4.6% 4500 5.7% 5000 6.0% 5500 6.2% 6000 6.4% 6500 6.3% 7000 6.7% 7500 6.8% 8000 6.6% Two more suspect dynos: [img]http://www.****************/DynoGraphs/ID00174-1288748665-MRHARRIS.jpeg[/img] rpm % gain 2500 0.0% 3000 15.0% 3500 2.4% 4000 3.5% 4500 4.1% 5000 3.7% 5500 4.1% 6000 4.1% 6500 3.5% 7000 4.1% 7500 4.3% 8000 7.3% [img]http://www.****************/DynoGraphs/ID00041-1288748425-NITERIDER.jpeg[/img] rpm % gain 2500 -19.0% 3000 25.0% 3500 9.4% 4000 5.1% 4500 4.1% 5000 3.7% 5500 7.6% 6000 4.8% 6500 5.8% 7000 4.4% 7500 4.8% 8000 5.2% |
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03-25-2011, 10:31 PM | #63 |
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I will describe in order the graphs attached. Please note that the time of each run is displayed to show transparency. Details for the same run appear in the same color.
1. “All PC Baselines - run4,5,6 after a long cool down” - HP vs. AFR. base lines were run with a 20 minute cool down before running 4,5,6. This is to give the best possible baseline (which we used). I am a believer of “best vs. best”. 2. “All PC Baselines - run4,5,6 after a long cool down” - HP vs. Tq 3. “AFR baseline vs. Gintani-OE Tune (hot and cold runs)” - best PC baseline vs. Gintani/OE Tuned runs. Tuned runs warm and cooled down. (a 15 minute cool down in between runs) Note also AFR has changed. 4. “Tractive effort rear roller baseline vs. OE tuned” - Dynos reads “tractive effort” and calculates other variables form these figures. Directly related to Torque output. 5. “Road speed baseline vs. OE tuned” – Road speed is spot on displaying same “ramp up rate” 6. “Acceleration baseline vs. OE tuned” – Measured acceleration 7. “Ambient Pressure baseline vs. OE tuned” - Ambient Pressure 8. “Ambient Temperature baseline vs. OE tuned” – Ambient Temperature. 9. “Relative humidity baseline vs. OE tuned” – Relative Humidity To give the PC tune the best possible chance to make power, a cool down time of 20 minutes was taken to see if numbers improved (check corresponding times on pictured runs). I/Alex are not like Powerchip, taking the least performing baseline run then comparing to the best tuned run. I hope that the attached dynos and the details are transparent. A variance of less than 1 degree in temperature is nothing I would expect to gain power from. In actual fact the environment was in PC’s favor each time. As Powerchip, staff and management, have never owned or plan to own a dyno, I find it hard for them to comment on the equipment used they know little about. Perhaps readers/”experts” can find something to nitpick over in these graphs? I believe if you don’t know what you are doing or saying, don’t pick a fight with someone who will disprove you. I have many other failed PC dynos to post for those interested (other companies also). (Mike Benvo, mike@powerchip) came in today wanting to “fudge” numbers on our dyno to prove his agenda. I will clearly state: “We use and rely on the Dyno Dynamics weather station to control environment, which cannot be tampered with.” Benvo, turned off the weather station to perform manipulations to environment conditions, which causes an immediate on screen warning to notify of this happening. (Mike taking orders over the phone of what to do). Not the way to do things in business. Graphs posted give the details of what Benvo was told to look for. We want real world conditions, or how do we know/prove our own products work? We will show as a courtesy to any and all customers wanting proof, the weather station is on, just to prove a point. We do what is right is the bottom line. We want our products to be the best no matter what or where the testing ground. Please test any and all our products independently just as others do. I concentrate on tuning and product development, I have no time to gone on further. Regards, Jeremy Last edited by Sales@Gintani.com; 03-27-2011 at 03:03 AM.. |
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03-25-2011, 10:34 PM | #64 |
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Couple of things here:
1) I was at Gintani today returning my car to stock and their is ONE blown M3...Drews. 2) Why hasn't Mike Benvo posted since he dropped by Gintani this morning ?
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03-25-2011, 11:40 PM | #65 | |
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Quote:
from the other recent OE tune dyno thread..
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03-26-2011, 01:08 AM | #66 |
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I know of one.. Zzz
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