TWS vs TWS edge

[Longwong]

Well all of this oil stuff has sure been educational. I dug deeper and was curious about the TWS professional and tws edge that I know bmw now uses compared to using the professional (which is gone now ) before. Some of the data people are using in other threads is for tws professional and I have seen the stats on the tws edge are significantly different in terms of its viscosity being quite a bit thinner at temperature. Viscosity at 100 is 21.9 and HTHS is 5.2. Vs. TWS professional at 100 is 25.9 as posted on another thread.

This is significant in that the new edge branded tws appears to be much thinner so I would love to see if any original owner could confirm they have used the edge branded stuff from day 1 (not the older thicker professional) and changed oil every 7500 or more and see their bearings.

Sounds like edge is really more like a 0w45 oil which means it should be better for everything like many people were saying.

I am open to learning and evolving my understanding so I know I was saying tws is the best and I think it still must be a great choice but there appears to be a lot of subtleties about even the two types of tws

[whats77inaname]

Dood....this is getting ridiculous....you should start ONE oil thread and keep everything located there. Keeps the clutter down and helps when searching in the future.


And by the way....with the number of questions *you* ask around these parts, you would do well not to provide flippant responses such as this

Originally Posted by Longwong

You bought an m3 out of warranty. What do you expect? Everything is costly man.

(from this thread) when others are asking for help.

[nullrouted]

Originally Posted by Longwong

Well all of this oil stuff has sure been educational. I dug deeper and was curious about the TWS professional and tws edge that I know bmw now uses compared to using the professional (which is gone now ) before. Some of the data people are using in other threads is for tws professional and I have seen the stats on the tws edge are significantly different in terms of its viscosity being quite a bit thinner at temperature. Viscosity at 100 is 21.9 and HTHS is 5.2. Vs. TWS professional at 100 is 25.9 as posted on another thread.

This is significant in that the new edge branded tws appears to be much thinner so I would love to see if any original owner could confirm they have used the edge branded stuff from day 1 (not the older thicker professional) and changed oil every 7500 or more and see their bearings.

Sounds like edge is really more like a 0w45 oil which means it should be better for everything like many people were saying.

I am open to learning and evolving my understanding so I know I was saying tws is the best and I think it still must be a great choice but there appears to be a lot of subtleties about even the two types of tws

Everyone is using EDGE from Day 1 in their MY2013s. Hell, even the back of the M3 sales book I received at the dealership says 'BMW M3s use Castrol EDGE oils.'

[mdosu]

Originally Posted by nullrouted

Everyone is using EDGE from Day 1 in their MY2013s. Hell, even the back of the M3 sales book I received at the dealership says 'BMW M3s use Castrol EDGE oils.'

You haven't been around long enough, there was a relabeled of the oil and a slight formula change. This is interesting given the thin oil discussions we've had. Also most dealers still have excess TWS, my last trip they gave me TWS.

Here's a link with the discussion
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...=751590&page=3

There's a part number change too

[Longwong]

I think the bottom line from the data is tws edge professional is significantly thinner than the motorsport tws. Viscoity 100 of 22 vs 25 or so. So it would be nice to know if anyone (like myself) has used ONLY the edge variant since new will have better bearing wear vs the TWS motorsport.

Seems to be the best of both worlds and on the other thread everyone is quoting numbers from the original TWS motorsport but the edge tws professional version is much thinner and has different anti-wear additives but should offer the thinner attributes some desire for the bearing issue with the protection of the classic tws at high rpm/track settings.

More information would be nice though

[mdosu]

Originally Posted by Longwong

I think the bottom line from the data is tws edge professional is significantly thinner than the motorsport tws. Viscoity 100 of 22 vs 25 or so. So it would be nice to know if anyone (like myself) has used ONLY the edge variant since new will have better bearing wear vs the TWS motorsport.

Seems to be the best of both worlds and on the other thread everyone is quoting numbers from the original TWS motorsport but the edge tws professional version is much thinner and has different anti-wear additives but should offer the thinner attributes some desire for the bearing issue with the protection of the classic tws at high rpm/track settings.

More information would be nice though

Lower viscosity, as you mentioned

http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=433692
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=839626

[mdosu]

Need to ask member m6pwr whether he used Edge in his 2013 oil analysis.


Taking account of all this information, I'm switching to Edge Professional on my next change too.

[BPMSport]

Another oil thread?

[mdosu]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

Another oil thread?

Serious this time though, all the pieces were scattered regarding bearing wear and TWS to Edge Professional switch. This thread is worth noting.

TWS Motorsport (p/n 07510009420)
"Edge Professional" (p/n 83122219730)

I guess it's up to the owner to choose

Both have labels saying approved for M cars

[BMRLVR]

You guys are amazing...... seriously, you couldn't have listened to me and Kawasaki00..... The viscosity at 100C is not the thing that is hurting bearings many of the daily driven cars never reach 100C. The viscosity that is important is the cold viscosity, 40C. The benefit of the Mobil 0W40 is its lighter viscosity before the engine is at operating temp. I think a lot of the bearing wear is occurring before the oil has warmed to operating temp.

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

You guys are amazing...... seriously, you couldn't have listened to me and Kawasaki00..... The viscosity at 100C is not the thing that is hurting bearings many of the daily driven cars never reach 100C. The viscosity that is important is the cold viscosity, 40C. The benefit of the Mobil 0W40 is its lighter viscosity before the engine is at operating temp. I think a lot of the bearing wear is occurring before the oil has warmed to operating temp.

Oh by the way, they are not the same oils. One is ester based one is pao base. That big jug above is not the dealership oil.

[VCMpower]

Boom! Thank you Jamie! Warm up your f&$&ing motor before you drive it over x load and rpm. I would not have a problem or concern running 10w70 for myself. I follow strict warm up and my car sees high rpm and pushes 700+hp. I do not drive it below 5 Celsius either. People need to look at their individual climates and driving styles and choose appropriate oil.

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

You guys are amazing...... seriously, you couldn't have listened to me and Kawasaki00..... The viscosity at 100C is not the thing that is hurting bearings many of the daily driven cars never reach 100C. The viscosity that is important is the cold viscosity, 40C. The benefit of the Mobil 0W40 is its lighter viscosity before the engine is at operating temp. I think a lot of the bearing wear is occurring before the oil has warmed to operating temp.

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by VCMpower

my car sees high rpm and pushes 700+hp

The only thing in this thread worth reading. LOL

[signes]

Curious what you guys (BMRLVR, Kawasaki, and other knowledgeable folks) would recommend for cold weather driving. Reading all of these threads on bearing wear, oil, etc. it seems to be one thing that hasn't been mentioned (that I've seen). Coming from the perspective of a DD driven 08 with 60k miles, and in the winter here I will see regular sub-zero (sometimes by quite a lot) temps.

[VCMpower]

Hahahaha

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

The only thing in this thread worth reading. LOL

[VCMpower]

This is where you will benefit from lighter oil for sure. BMRLVR comes from a chilly climate he will point you in the right cold weather protection direction.

Originally Posted by signes

Curious what you guys (BMRLVR, Kawasaki, and other knowledgeable folks) would recommend for cold weather driving. Reading all of these threads on bearing wear, oil, etc. it seems to be one thing that hasn't been mentioned (that I've seen). Coming from the perspective of a DD driven 08 with 60k miles, and in the winter here I will see regular sub-zero (sometimes by quite a lot) temps.

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by VCMpower

Boom! Thank you Jamie! Warm up your f&$&ing motor before you drive it over x load and rpm. I would not have a problem or concern running 10w70 for myself. I follow strict warm up and my car sees high rpm and pushes 700+hp. I do not drive it below 5 Celsius either. People need to look at their individual climates and driving styles and choose appropriate oil.

Although warm-up is very important, they measured factory clearances of the S65 are too tight to use an oil like the TWS. TWS viscosity at 100C is just approaching a viscosity that is suitable for this engine. The problem is that many of these engines will never reach 100C when driven around town or on the highway. My personal M3's oil gauge hardly ever reaches the center mark on the oil gauge unless I am beating on it....... it seems to run about 90C. As long as the oil is not fully warmed, oil starvation is a possibility since the flow is going to be reduced.

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

The only thing in this thread worth reading. LOL

+1

Originally Posted by signes

Curious what you guys (BMRLVR, Kawasaki, and other knowledgeable folks) would recommend for cold weather driving. Reading all of these threads on bearing wear, oil, etc. it seems to be one thing that hasn't been mentioned (that I've seen). Coming from the perspective of a DD driven 08 with 60k miles, and in the winter here I will see regular sub-zero (sometimes by quite a lot) temps.

Originally Posted by VCMpower

This is where you will benefit from lighter oil for sure. BMRLVR comes from a chilly climate he will point you in the right cold weather protection direction.

The M1 0W40 is my recommendation year round. It is a great oil and has the specs to meet the criteria of the S65 very well. It is certified for engines that are most likely more demanding on oil than the S65, engines that are purpose built for the track in fact i.e.: The GT3 and GT3RS Metzger engines which have higher specific output, way higher BMEP's as indicated by peak torque numbers and higher piston speeds due to a longer stroke and higher redline.

[VCMpower]

I hear you and understand, but my temp is closer to 110 most of the time and I do not feel comfortable running a 40wt at those temps with the power I am producing. You are correct for the majority though I feel. Also like I have said, I have had my motor apart twice and been able to inspect my particular wear of the bearings. Fuchs Titan 10w60 is working for me.

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

Although warm-up is very important, they measured factory clearances of the S65 are too tight to use an oil like the TWS. TWS viscosity at 100C is just approaching a viscosity that is suitable for this engine. The problem is that many of these engines will never reach 100C when driven around town or on the highway. My personal M3's oil gauge hardly ever reaches the center mark on the oil gauge unless I am beating on it....... it seems to run about 90C. As long as the oil is not fully warmed, oil starvation is a possibility since the flow is going to be reduced.


+1





The M1 0W40 is my recommendation year round. It is a great oil and has the specs to meet the criteria of the S65 very well. It is certified for engines that are most likely more demanding on oil than the S65, engines that are purpose built for the track in fact i.e.: The GT3 and GT3RS Metzger engines which have higher specific output, way higher BMEP's as indicated by peak torque numbers and higher piston speeds due to a longer stroke and higher redline.

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

The M1 0W40 is my recommendation year round. It is a great oil and has the specs to meet the criteria of the S65 very well. It is certified for engines that are most likely more demanding on oil than the S65, engines that are purpose built for the track in fact i.e.: The GT3 and GT3RS Metzger engines which have higher specific output, way higher BMEP's as indicated by peak torque numbers and higher piston speeds due to a longer stroke and higher redline.

Do we know why in the first place a thick oil like 10w-60 was used by BMW ... surely not because of the S54 bearing issue?

Is it the commercial partnership with Castrol, and the none of the other oils in the Castrol range was suitable for a motorsport engine?

Is it the oil pump ... to maintain pressure?

Not everyone lives in the Death Valley?

This is beginning to become rocket science. The question we need to be asking ourselves is, what are the negatives in using M1 0w-40? We all know the benefits - good flow when cold etc. What happens at the high end temperature ... does it remain 40wt? I read 10w-60 breaks down to 40wt.

Enlighten me guys ...

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by VCMpower

... I have had my motor apart twice and been able to inspect my particular wear of the bearings. Fuchs Titan 10w60 is working for me.

Are you jobless to sit there and keep opening up your engine ...

[IMG]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

You guys are amazing...... seriously, you couldn't have listened to me and Kawasaki00..... The viscosity at 100C is not the thing that is hurting bearings many of the daily driven cars never reach 100C. The viscosity that is important is the cold viscosity, 40C. The benefit of the Mobil 0W40 is its lighter viscosity before the engine is at operating temp. I think a lot of the bearing wear is occurring before the oil has warmed to operating temp.

THIS

[VCMpower]

Originally Posted by aussiem3

Are you jobless to sit there and keep opening up your engine ...

How about umm, it is my job, life , business I own. Look up VCM Autoservice in Victoria, bc. Knowledge through hands on experience bro