ESS vs Evolve tune street feel?

[RichieP]

I'm curious if any members have tried both the ESS tune and the Evolve tune on their car and what their "seat of the pants" feel was comparing the two.

[IMG]

I had the ESS NA tune on my car before Evolve came out and i enjoyed the ESS tune much,from how smooth the start up to being smooth through the entire RPM to red zone.im sure someone will have a baseline dyno before and after the evolve tune.

[Marsala125]

I'm also interested on people's opinion.. Now that both have similar plug in software to email ecu files. Both are about same price also for tuning.

[roy@acuteperformance]

It'll be a while for someone to post a comparison. I don't think most people buy two tunes especially when they'll probably have similar power gains.

Once more people get the Evolve tune, hopefully someone who has an ESS tune could meet up with someone else with the Evolve tune and do a comparison themselves.

[IMG]

Originally Posted by Marsala125

I'm also interested on people's opinion.. Now that both have similar plug in software to email ecu files. Both are about same price also for tuning.

All entries with ESS tunes:
http://www.****************/DynoDB.php?EcuOpts=99

Entries showing only gains with ESS Tune:
http://bmw.pencilgeek.org/showDyno.php?recID=256
http://bmw.pencilgeek.org/showDyno.php?recID=269

[CCLSVTM3]

Not to hijack, but this is my next mod also... I'm stuck between the new ESS direct flash and the Evolve... Anyone have any ideas as to a preference? Which one is more user friendly? Etc....

[808MGuy]

Way to early for anyone to have made that comparison and dyno plots wouldn't tell the whole story here. It seems just from the info on their websites that gains will be similar. The real difference will be in the feel of the car. Does one tune drive smoother than the other? Are there any obvious powerbands in either of the tunes and where are they? Those are the kinds of comparisons that will require one person spending significant time with both tunes to make a meaningful review.

[Moxie]

Originally Posted by 808MGuy

Way to early for anyone to have made that comparison and dyno plots wouldn't tell the whole story here. It seems just from the info on their websites that gains will be similar. The real difference will be in the feel of the car. Does one tune drive smoother than the other? Are there any obvious powerbands in either of the tunes and where are they? Those are the kinds of comparisons that will require one person spending significant time with both tunes to make a meaningful review.

Wish you could buy both & return the one you didn't prefer for a full refund.

[lukester]

different question but related to the topic here.
I'm sure that the ESS and the Evolve are roughly the same "quality of output".

At the moment I'm running the Match Schnell Pulleys, Match Schnell Stage II Air Intake as well as the complete Akrapovic with the 100cells.

Do you guys recommend getting an ESS or Evolve or is it not really "feelable".
While driving around the max output at 7000rpm is not important. For daily use the "whoop" in a range between 2500 and 4500 is more important.
Can anybody try to explain if there's a feelable difference between stock and ESS or Evolve and if these ECU upgrade are worth their money?

Thx a lot!

[Simrokkzz]

I can tell you by tomorrow evening, when my serial file comes back flashed....

send me pm and maybe we can talk on the phone !!

[KGB7]

Originally Posted by Simrokkzz

I can tell you by tomorrow evening, when my serial file comes back flashed....

send me pm and maybe we can talk on the phone !!

It would be nice if you shared your experience with everyone here on the forum.

[flipm3]

Just from reading their respective websites and looking at feedback from members on the forum, I'm sure you'll have very similar street feel from both tunes. Both ESS Tuning and Evolve Automotive are very knowledgeable and experienced tuners. I think where you are going to see the differentiating factors are on how you flash your car, how much retunes cost, what features each tune/flashing device offers, and of course price.

Just to point out a few differences.

• ESS uses a handheld device, while Evolve uses a USB-OBDII cable.
• ESS Tuning NA Tune is $995, while Evolve is $999
• ESS Tuning NA Tune for Akrapovic is $1495, while Evolve is still just $999
• Evolve is working on providing the ability to read/clear codes, reset adaptations, data log via their cable. I haven't heard of ESS doing that.
• Evolve charges $150 for a return, not sure how much ESS charges.

Just minute differences. I really do believe in the end you can't go wrong with either or. Just choose what fits your interests more in how the product is actually utilized and the potential it has.

Best of luck

[CCLSVTM3]

Well, I took a chance and went with the direct flash from ESS... I'm super happy with it... Total difference even while just driving around... Once you hit the M button its even better!!!! Again, I have not tried the Evolve but I'm very very happy with the ESS....

[Simrokkzz]

Originally Posted by KGB7

It would be nice if you shared your experience with everyone here on the forum.

as told before, got the ESS tune....

I did full rewrite yesterday evening, but as it was raining accidently I did not drive.

this morning on my way to work there was I would say, slight subjective better throttle response M-mode and normal driving.

I did not manage to get faster than 270 km/h - according to Tacho, but the limiter on german versions is set to 274 km/h tacho - from stock.

I think to try it tonight.

the removed cold start cycle, I don t know if thats cool, if the engine is cold, it should idle high - from my point of view.

so I think to request a rewritten file.

will go catless tomorrow on a friends lift.



cheers

[Sales@Evolve]

Even our tunes will very in street feel quite considerably because whenever we offer a tune we ask which octane, what kind of throttle mapping etc etc people want.

So one guy could ask for a tuned file which has a little more aggression than the other which basically means the street feel of the tune will be completely different.

As for power, well, there are different strategies on extracting more power and octane plays a role on the ignition side of things. Someone using 93+ is going to have a slightly bigger difference to someone who is running 91.

This is not just in terms of power output but also the way the engine responds and the way it sounds.

So really, it's quite difficult to compare a tuner (or tuners) who is tuning cars according to customer requirements!

[flipm3]

It looks like I'll be going with the Evolve Automotive Tune for our 100% stock E90 M3. No other engine mods, 93OCT, DCT. I already have dyno time scheduled and I am still working on a good way for me to measure acceleration times.

No doubt, I'll be doing a very thorough and data filled review Stay tuned.

[Simrokkzz]

put my dyno results for ESS Tune on stock car here:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...2#post10172712

345 rw PS

[BT26]

I guess the my concern for tuning is if the Tune will take into account the internals of the car.

and therefore how will the engine last after tuning. better performance is extracted yes, but you won't want to be driving a car, maximized for performance but the engine only lasts for a year.

Racing engines are highly tuned but they have the luxury of replacing the engines and for some, maybe the tune for maximum performance means they expect the engine to only last for one race only.

I guess the logic, higher power higher wear? BMW made the engine as it is so it can last you 10 years. With a tune, one wouldnt know.


It would be great if someone who've had ESS or Evolve tune for 1yr and upwards step up and give their second review.


Please feel free to discusss, and If i'm wrong on anything, please do highlight it too.

[THE TECH]

Originally Posted by BT26

I guess the my concern for tuning is if the Tune will take into account the internals of the car.

and therefore how will the engine last after tuning. better performance is extracted yes, but you won't want to be driving a car, maximized for performance but the engine only lasts for a year.

Racing engines are highly tuned but they have the luxury of replacing the engines and for some, maybe the tune for maximum performance means they expect the engine to only last for one race only.

I guess the logic, higher power higher wear? BMW made the engine as it is so it can last you 10 years. With a tune, one wouldnt know.


It would be great if someone who've had ESS or Evolve tune for 1yr and upwards step up and give their second review.


Please feel free to discusss, and If i'm wrong on anything, please do highlight it too.

That's a bit exaggerated. Unless you're getting a completely custom tune, there is no reason to worry about engine internals at this level. We're not talking forced induction, just a simple street tune.

[flipm3]

Originally Posted by BT26

I guess the my concern for tuning is if the Tune will take into account the internals of the car.

and therefore how will the engine last after tuning. better performance is extracted yes, but you won't want to be driving a car, maximized for performance but the engine only lasts for a year.

Racing engines are highly tuned but they have the luxury of replacing the engines and for some, maybe the tune for maximum performance means they expect the engine to only last for one race only.

I guess the logic, higher power higher wear? BMW made the engine as it is so it can last you 10 years. With a tune, one wouldnt know.


It would be great if someone who've had ESS or Evolve tune for 1yr and upwards step up and give their second review.


Please feel free to discusss, and If i'm wrong on anything, please do highlight it too.

I definitely see your concern and as you intend to do, that's why it's crucial that you find a tuner who is honest and very experienced. When a tuner is willing to discuss things with you and talk about the methods of their own tune in detail with reasoning behind it all, that says A LOT about their intentions and purpose. If you look at the post history of some of the tuners active on this forum, you'll easily find the ones who share a lot more information, details, and intricacies than others. I think it's important for us consumers to deal with tuners who are very candid so we know what we are getting.

Well back to your question. From my understanding, most car manufacturers tune their cars fairly conservatively. It's pretty crucial for most car manufacturers to build a car that will be reliable even when the car is poorly taken care of. What most respectable and reliable tuners probably do is untap more of the potential of these engines. One simple example could be simply changing Ignition Timing targets. I assume BMW has a very broad range of Ignition Timing to suit all the different qualities of fuel and unfortunately, poor maintenance from the consumer. What a tuner could do is advance timing leading to more power.

In addition to that, there are many more maps that experienced tuners manipulate, such as VANOS timing, Torque Limiters, etc etc. A quality tune should maintain the reliability and driveability of the car when stock. Fortunately, Evolve and ESS are a few of those that do.

I assume Race Engines are tuned a lot more aggressively with very advanced and fixed ignition timing leading to consistent power all the time. Unfortunately like you mentioned, that leads to excess wear.

I personally don't think you would have to worry. I have had my Evolve tune on my E46 M3 for the past 5-6 months or so and I have no signs of problems. Evolve Automotive prides in their reliability, driveability, and smoothness. They aren't necessarily out there to have the highest power on the gain, but to improve driving experience in every aspect possible.

These are just a few reasons why I chose to go with Evolve. Give them a call and I'm sure you'll see what I'm talking about. Pick their brains and they'll probably have an answer to all your questions.

[klammer]

Have had the ESS Akra tune for over about 18 months now and have done about 30+ track days and over 20k on the odometer with the tune and the car is flawless. Love it!

[Drew1204]

Trying to decide between evolve and ESS and tried searching as well between the differences. Have there been any dyno comparisons? Anyone installed both?