An interesting story about oil consumption and our cars

[2pntrsrv]

First off, let me say that i am new to the M3 and to the forum so if this information is already general knowledge, then i apologize for wasting anyone's time...that being said; i have never come across a definitive answer for oil consumption on the V8 and V10 motor until now.

Sooo I was down at my local dealer today drooling over a beautiful carbon roofed, red interior MANUAL M3 they had on the showroom floor today while my car was being serviced and a gentleman in a lab coat with a huge BMW roundel approached me.

This was not your average BMW salesman, this guy looked like inspector gadget but all BMW. long story short, we started talking and he is the #1 tech for ALL BMW in the U.S. and he is a wealth of knowledge this guy is basically the guy they bring in when the regular BMW technicians can't figure it out, so i picked his brain for a little while regarding our E90 motors and the oil consumption.

Here is what he said, forgive me because i am paraphrasing as it was a very technical conversation...

Essentially what happens is that the rings on our motors do not seat properly and it allows for the oil to blow past the rings. I asked how is this possible? I mean, isn't this a bad ass super high performance engine built by the best sports car company on the planet? Why would the rings not seat properly?

His answer floored me..first off, yes this engine is an incredibly powerful motor BUT it has extremely low tolerances and actually requires that it be driven at or near red line for extended periods of time!
I was intrigued now...did the top tech in BMW just tell me to go drive my car at its limit because that is going to help my oil consumption?? NO WAY!

Here comes the technical part; oil breaks down at certain temperatures and pressure inside our motors (any motor) and during the oil break down process, certain chemicals (toxic and non toxic) are released. This coats the inside of the piston housing with a kind of slick surface. The dirtier the oil, the slicker the surface becomes and the thicker the coating is on the housing.

He recommends oil changes at no more than 5k intervals on our motor and the V10.

Our motors and the V10 are extremely high revving and if you don't drive the car at the limit the way it was intended and you just lope around town at 2,500 RPM the rings never seat properly due to the fact the oil never gets hot enough to evaporate in the housing, as a result the piston doesn't ride the inside of the housing the way it was intended to, instead it rides on the slick surface coating the housing left there by the oil as it breaks down. This causes oil leak down and seepage and is basically the reason for high oil consumption in the V8 and V10.

Our motors require intense, high revving usage for long periods of time such as on a race track or extended high speed driving in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear to heat the oil to the point of evaporation to prevent the coating of the housing.

This is why some of you who race your cars and drive them in high performance situations at or near red line may actually see better oil consumption ratios than those who baby the car and keep it in the lower RPM ranges.

Now at this point, just like many of you who are reading this, my jaw was on the floor...

moral of the story... DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT!! this car was not meant to lolly gag around town to the grocery store and back. It was meant to rip through the gears, hit red line, and generally be abused like a proper race car.

I purchased my car pre-owned so there is no way to tell how it was driven before me but i know how I am going to drive it now!
They like to be driven, and driven hard!

As a side note, he shared a story with me about how there was a brand new V10 M5 that came into a dealership with ridiculous oil consumption problems. The car was going through a quart every 600 miles. It had rougly 5,000 miles on it. They fixed the car by taking it to Road Atlanta Motor Speedway and doing hot laps in the car at red line up to 3rd gear. The client had a ball and the M5 had better than normal oil consumption for an M5 the rest of its days.

How cool was this guy? I know that a lot of people hate using the dealership for service after the warranty is out but sometimes, there are some really cool people who really know and love the cars hanging out there

Needless to say, it was a VERY good visit to the BMW store today

[dizzyF30]

I would have asked him about rod bearings followed by throttle actuators. Cool story though. I'm still not going to redline my engine around town.

[roastbeef]

All that and you talked about blowby?

Should've asked about rod bearings.

[Bartledoo]

Go back right now with our rod bearing questions!!!

[vincE92M3]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Go back right now with our rod bearing questions!!!

This!

Thanks for the share.

[GotV8?]

I would've asked for his contact info...business card, email....wow!! I feel like this was a teaser!! Thanks for sharing.

[2pntrsrv]

Originally Posted by GotV8?

I would've asked for his contact info...business card, email....wow!! I feel like this was a teaser!! Thanks for sharing.

Actually, I have all that information but I didn't feel like it was proper to share without his permission.

What specifically would you like to know about the rod bearings and throttle actuators? I have his email and he encouraged me to reach out.

[roastbeef]

Ask him if there is quiet talk about it within the company.

[GotV8?]

Im curious if BMW purposely went with weak Throttle Body Actuators' designs to promote on future going maintenance and cost & labor to replace them, in the perspective of a conspiracy theory, So to keep running cost in BMW favor for generating revenue$$$ once everyone is past the Warranty stage??

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

Ask him if there is quiet talk about it within the company.

I think this to start the conversation (in person) and see the facial response will tell everything we want to know.

I am genuinely interested to know what explanation or (at least) anecdote the technical guys that wear lab coats around show rooms have to say about the infamous rod bearings. EVERYONE has something to say to me about the rod bearings.

For example: Earlier this year I had a guy flag me down and ask me what all I had done to the car to have an E92 front end swapped over. This same guy then followed my puzzled face and answer of "it came this way...?" with "so what are you going to do about the rod bearings?" This guy didn't know that they made E9x sedan M3s (guess he thought it was an F80 with an E92 front end?), yet he knew everything there is to know about S65 rod bearings.

[timothy2001]

This is great man, thanks for posting. If you do get anything out of him on the whole bearing fiasco please bring it.

[vincE92M3]

Originally Posted by 2pntrsrv

Actually, I have all that information but I didn't feel like it was proper to share without his permission.

What specifically would you like to know about the rod bearings and throttle actuators? I have his email and he encouraged me to reach out.

I'd like to know what his thoughts or recommendations are around the rod bearings...

[admranger]

I'd ask him if he thought an LSx was a good swap when the rod or main bearings in the S65 prematurely pack it in.

[tdott]

Sounds like they put an idiot in a lab coat to tell a bunch of BS stories.

[seatosky]

Originally Posted by tdott

Sounds like they put an idiot in a lab coat to tell a bunch of BS stories.

Lol

[MachinesWithSouls]

Can I tell a story? I love them.

When I was in high school, I had a shop teacher that we'll call Mr. Joe, since that was his name. Dude was retiring my senior year, in his 70s, so you could imagine the wealth of knowledge we'd try to pull from him at any moment.

At any rate, Joe told us that back in the day, when buying a new car, he'd always go home and change the oil first thing, figuring that the factory would put in the cheapest crap possible. After years of doing this, one car had an oil consumption issue that he couldn't figure out, since he always broke the motors in the right way. Turns out that the factories has improved their standards, and were putting in a unique oil blend that aided motor break-in. By taking that out before the specified time, he was essentially causing the problem himself.

I tell this story for some perspective. I believe those first 1200 miles are crucial to an M motors health, and I also believe we sometimes get in our own way. This lab coat dude? No doubt the engine needs some good work. But BMW did not design a street car that can't be driven unless your hair is on fire. Drive the car how you always do, and how you feel comfortable doing so.

My 2 cents. Mr. Joe's too.

[carenthuziast]

Originally Posted by dizzyF30

I would have asked him about rod bearings followed by throttle actuators. Cool story though. I'm still not going to redline my engine around town.

Amen.

How can you have the smartest BMW man in the US and not ask him about rod bearings (a $25K problem if your engine grenades) but instead, ask him about oil consumption ($14/quart)?

[pbonsalb]

In 2013 or 2014, I had a motor built for my 99M3, aftermarket rods and pistons with lower compression for turbo use. I did the “mototune” break in. Definitely not the “drive it like a baby for 1200 miles” approach, but I have previously stated I am comfortable not doing everything to BMW’s lowest common denominator specs. Check it out:

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

I was at the dragstrip cranking 125+ mph traps at 200 miles on the built motor. Still going strong 4-5 years later.

[Scrippy]

I kind of agree with the "drive it hard" statement. If you drive in S1 or S2 the motor just seems more chatty than usual. After a good flogging in S6 with the nannies off the idle does always sound nicer for a while. The vanos system is rather finicky but provides a great power curve. I also find truth in shorter oil change intervals like 5,000 miles as well. Lol not sure that a lab coat adds credentials or viability however.

PS:, I'm wearing a cape while typing this.

[2pntrsrv]

Originally Posted by carenthuziast

Amen.

How can you have the smartest BMW man in the US and not ask him about rod bearings (a $25K problem if your engine grenades) but instead, ask him about oil consumption ($14/quart)?

As I said before, I am new to the forum and the car itself...I did not realize the rod bearings were such an issue as i have found multiple threads saying that it affects less than 1% of all V8 motors made, yet oil consumption seems to be a common denominator across the board.

I guess I chose the wrong topic to approach. It was a 10 minute long conversation with a guy I just happened to run into, not an interview...plus I'm not sure how friendly he would have been if I started grilling him right away about detonation issues and complaints. I was genuinely curious about the engine oil consumption as my car was in for an oil change.

Now I have built a genuine relationship and rapport with the guy and feel comfortable sending him an email regarding the other issues. Had I berated him for the problems right away, I am not so sure this would be the case.

It is very easy to criticize someone after the fact as you have the luxury of hindsight.

I will keep everyone updated on the response to the rod bearing question and throttle actuators as well.

[New2Roundel]

The response you got on oil consumption does not surprise me. It seems like high performance engines from German brands simply do not do well when not driven hard. I've heard plenty of stories over the years about BMWs and Porsche where the engines start to fall apart/leak/spring fault codes related to the fact that the owner does not drive the car hard enough or frequently enough.

Like the others however, I'd also like to know about rod bearings from BMW's version of the "most interesting man in world".

[timothy2001]

Originally Posted by 2pntrsrv

As I said before, I am new to the forum and the car itself...I did not realize the rod bearings were such an issue as i have found multiple threads saying that it affects less than 1% of all V8 motors made, yet oil consumption seems to be a common denominator across the board.

I guess I chose the wrong topic to approach. It was a 10 minute long conversation with a guy I just happened to run into, not an interview...plus I'm not sure how friendly he would have been if I started grilling him right away about detonation issues and complaints. I was genuinely curious about the engine oil consumption as my car was in for an oil change.

Now I have built a genuine relationship and rapport with the guy and feel comfortable sending him an email regarding the other issues. Had I berated him for the problems right away, I am not so sure this would be the case.

It is very easy to criticize someone after the fact as you have the luxury of hindsight.

I will keep everyone updated on the response to the rod bearing question and throttle actuators as well.

Awesome thanks and welcome to the forum and to the passion these cars generate