Goldilocks Brake Pads?

[AJMartin0321]

Hey guys,

I purchased my car (2011 E90 6MT ZCP) about 6 months ago, and the OEM brakes were not only noisy and dusty, but quite grabby near the top of the pedal travel. About 4 months ago I replaced the rotors with OEM, but went with the Akebono Euro Ceramic pads due to reports that they were quieter, cleaner, and less grabby. While this all turned out to be true, the brake pedal travel is now a bit too long.

With these pads, the brake pedal will travel below the level of the accelerator with anything more than light-medium braking. It is a habit to keep half of my foot off the brake pedal during braking to make the other half available for heel-toe downshifting. What happens with the Akebonos is that the other half of my foot will hit the accelerator with anything stronger than mildly firm braking, even when it is not time to downshift (annoying).

Needless to say, I would like something with a bit more bite than the Akebonos, but don't feel grabby at the top like the OEM's did. Regarding other characteristics, I would rather have quiet over minimal dust. I wash the car weekly and my wheels are coated anyway.

I've read about the usual suspects, but could not find information specifically dealing with bite characteristics for street pads.

Any thoughts/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[vitalsigns]

My Akebonos work perfectly for what they are. About 90% of stock performance, and without your brake pedal travel issue. And essentially NO brake dust!

[AJMartin0321]

Originally Posted by vitalsigns

My Akebonos work perfectly for what they are. About 90% of stock performance, and without your brake pedal travel issue. And essentially NO brake dust!

Interesting. I thought it was strange too, so I flushed the brake fluid with Castrol SRF. The old fluid was disgusting, but it did not make an appreciable difference in feel. The braking performance is good once I get on it, so I don't think that there are any issues mechanically. Maybe I'll just have to experiment a little. Thanks for your thoughts.

[jeffkukuruda]

I swear by performance friction carbon metallic Z street pads. I use them on my e90 M3 and used them on my old M coupe as well. I wish they made them for my e39 M5 and that would have them too. They can squeal every once in a while though, so probably not your answer. But they stop amazing, little less dust than stock, and very progressive pedal.

pro tip- if you order them through Orielly auto parts, they honor their lifetime warranty. just return smoked pads/ backing plates and get fresh pads.

[6ixSpd]

You've described exactly what many dislike about Akebono pads: poor pedal feel.

I find ABT pads to perform better than Akebono Euro. They have MUCH better pedal feel, and are also virtually dust-free when compared to stock. I've had them in multiple previous BMWs and prior to that I had Akebono/OEM/Hawk HPS. The ABT are my favourite. A friend runs them in his extremely hard driven Z3 M roadster and he hasn't complained about a single thing, and he's a very particular driver.

I installed ABTs on my M3 today, I'll report back with how they perform (feel/bite/dust) on this application.

[AJMartin0321]

I am not familiar with either brand mentioned above. Will give both a close look. Thanks so much for the suggestions!

[6ixSpd]

Initial thoughts on these ABT pads:

• The initial bite is nowhere near like OEM. It's even less than I expected to be honest.
• Pedal travel feels longer now to get the same sort of feel/braking power.
• Not sure if braking distances have increased, but it's likely.
• There is virtually zero dust, as in, after bedding them in and driving around the wheels look as clean as driving down the block with OEM pads. That was a very pleasant surprise.

I need to do some backroad runs to really get a feel for how these perform during spirited driving to see if the new pedal feel/longer travel takes away substantially from the precision driving experience this car offers. As of my immediate 1 hour test drive on highways and straight roads, I'm not entirely convinced I like these enough to keep them. The spirited driving test will determine if I keep the or throw the OEM ones back in.

EDIT: After bedding them in again more thoroughly, I can confidently say the pedal travel is much more in line with what I was expecting and greatly improved compared to the initial impressions I posted above. The initial feel is also markedly improved. After taking it on a nice 3 hour drive through some twisty roads, I can definitely say the ABT pads hold up very well to spirited driving on the street. The immensely reduced dust (honestly, it's like 99% less than OEM!) is a huge blessing and worth the small trade-off in the initial "bite" when compared to OEM pads in my opinion.

[AJMartin0321]

It sounds like the PFC's may be the ticket. On O'Reilly, the PFC pads available make no mention of "Z-rated". They are just referred to as "Performance Friction Carbon Metallic". When I cross referenced the part number (0918.10) with the PFC website, they are called "Max Performance Carbon Metallic". Same old Z-Rated pads with an updated name?

I was also looking into the Hawk HPS 5.0, but the price between the two is negligible. Is the performance of the PFC generally regarded as superior?

Thanks again everyone!

[dparm]

Originally Posted by AJMartin0321

It sounds like the PFC's may be the ticket. On O'Reilly, the PFC pads available make no mention of "Z-rated". They are just referred to as "Performance Friction Carbon Metallic". When I cross referenced the part number (0918.10) with the PFC website, they are called "Max Performance Carbon Metallic". Same old Z-Rated pads with an updated name?

I was also looking into the Hawk HPS 5.0, but the price between the two is negligible. Is the performance of the PFC generally regarded as superior?

Thanks again everyone!

***EDIT: they are the same, as someone else pointed out -- just poor marketing and inconsistent webpages among various resellers***


Here is an overview of their motorsport pads, which is where the Z stuff falls (scroll down):
http://pfc.parts/motorsports/pfc-compounds/

Give Dave @ Zeckhausen Racing a call and tell him what you're looking for. He always has great advice stemming from his own personal experiences.

[jeffkukuruda]

I called and talked to PFC direct while standing in the oreilleys store and they told me the latest version does not say "z rated" anymore and the pad that was available was in fact their newest carbon metallic pad for the street- no z designation available now. I can confirm they perform as amazingly as ever and feel the same as my other cars with them. Hope you like them. I was also concerned I wasn't getting the real deal this time around but the pfc rep confirmed the part number.

[jeffkukuruda]

I still have the boxes I'll confirm part numbers tonight

[dparm]

Thanks for clarifying, I stand corrected.

I don't understand why they can't be more consistent with the marketing...

[jeffkukuruda]

Doc, thanks for the links and providing proof to my inputs above.

I agree with Dparm on the marketing and naming convention, but the bottom line is these pads rock! They have been the only aftermarket road pad that instills confidence at any semblance of speed. They'll even survive and hardly fade on a tight track day. Fast tracks such as mid ohio or watkins glen, they will not work for anyone above beginner, but for back roads, daily driving, and the occasional HPDE on street tires, they just work. I also think they are much better behaved on the street than the DS2500 that many love.

-Jeff

[AJMartin0321]

Thanks for the clarification everyone! Ordering them right now.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by jeffkukuruda

I also think they are much better behaved on the street than the DS2500 that many love.

I have found the DS2500 to be very streetable on several cars: my Audi S4, the M3, and even my Corvette.

[jeffkukuruda]

I didn't mean to say they were a bad pad, but they seem to lean more towards track than street. I bought a set for my M coupe a long while ago as track pads and they just seemed lost in the middle to me, that's all.