Anyone have dimensions of an S65 to compare to other V8s for swap possibilities?

[Sellout]

I'm looking for some simple dimensions for the S65 V8, and they're proving to be impossible to find online. Anyone have one on an engine stand and willing to grab a tape measure and tell me how tall it is from bottom of oil pan to top of plenum, and width from valve cover to valve cover?

Edit: My M3 is wrecked, and not in a location where I can take these measurements myself.

[squartus]

The trans, and software is what I think the serious cash/time/issue will be. Prob could buy 3 M's for the end cost.

[Redd]

Why would you have any other V8? If I were to do a transplant it would be the S63 V8 Biturbo from the M5/M6.

[Sellout]

I'm thinking S65 in something else. As far as I'm concerned, there just isn't another interesting V8

[drrust]

Originally Posted by Sellout

I'm thinking S65 in something else. As far as I'm concerned, there just isn't another interesting V8

I've seen a few threads on putting the S65 in the E46 M3. Search is working on my AP today but this thread links to a video.

my Technica S65 swap review by Matt Farah http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1363644

There were threads on a roadster, and if memory serves me right someone shoved an S65 in a TR7.

[VictorH]

Originally Posted by Sellout

I'm thinking S65 in something else. As far as I'm concerned, there just isn't another interesting V8

Really? 5.2L voodoo wouldn't be interesting? Or 5L Aluminator with 540+HP what's wrong with that unless you don't like Ford products (agree they are far from perfect, but the voodoo engine is nice, I've driven it on street and track, it's like a more powerful version of the S65).

[The-Traveler]

You could put it into a 1 Series. It would be a low weight setup, albeit a bit ugly.

[squartus]

Originally Posted by Redd

Why would you have any other V8? If I were to do a transplant it would be the S63 V8 Biturbo from the M5/M6.

It has alot of issues, more than the s65. My shop usually has a couple in it

[Sellout]

Originally Posted by VictorH

Really? 5.2L voodoo wouldn't be interesting? Or 5L Aluminator with 540+HP what's wrong with that unless you don't like Ford products (agree they are far from perfect, but the voodoo engine is nice, I've driven it on street and track, it's like a more powerful version of the S65).

I don't really want to get into what I dislike about the voodoo here, but suffice it to say that I think it sounds like crap, performs like crap, and is nothing but a marketing gimmick. Not as bad as Dodge's ridiculous "hemi," but along those lines I guess.

The aluminator is almost interesting, but I'd honestly rather take an LS1 and build it into a high RPM 427 screamer. Better power and better packaging. Ford's DOHC engines are GIANT. I've had cars that were smaller.

The S65 sounds absolutely incredible, has the kind of sharp throttle response that just shouldn't be possible in a street car, has one of the most amazing torque curves in existence and makes me giggle every time I accelerate onto the highway next to a k-rail. I want to put one into an S2000. If it will fit between the strut towers.

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by Sellout

I don't really want to get into what I dislike about the voodoo here, but suffice it to say that I think it sounds like crap, performs like crap, and is nothing but a marketing gimmick. Not as bad as Dodge's ridiculous "hemi," but along those lines I guess.

The aluminator is almost interesting, but I'd honestly rather take an LS1 and build it into a high RPM 427 screamer. Better power and better packaging. Ford's DOHC engines are GIANT. I've had cars that were smaller.

The S65 sounds absolutely incredible, has the kind of sharp throttle response that just shouldn't be possible in a street car, has one of the most amazing torque curves in existence and makes me giggle every time I accelerate onto the highway next to a k-rail. I want to put one into an S2000. If it will fit between the strut towers.

People have put Viper v10s in the S2ks so I'm sure it's possible.

As ever, it's all about what you're willing to pay.

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by Sellout

I don't really want to get into what I dislike about the voodoo here, but suffice it to say that I think it sounds like crap, performs like crap, and is nothing but a marketing gimmick.

Bert@BEBearings owns both M3 and GT350R. He won't shut up about the 350R and how it outperforms the M3 in every way. He says there's at least one other forum member here who owns both. Maybe he can chime in.

Of course the Voodoo motor sounds different. It's a flat plane crank and has a single throttle body.

They DynoJet results look pretty impressive for Voodoo too. 450whp and 350wtq compared to S65 350whp and 250wtq. The only thing not to like about Voodoo is the torque curve below 3000 isn't nearly as nice as the S65. But above 3000, Voodoo is about as flat as S65 up to 7000.

So what exactly don't you like about it or think it's gimmicky?

The S65 sounds absolutely incredible, has the kind of sharp throttle response that just shouldn't be possible in a street car, has one of the most amazing torque curves in existence and makes me giggle every time I accelerate onto the highway next to a k-rail.

Voodoo has nearly identical torque curve from 3000-8000, but with 100 ft-lbs higher than S65 throughout that entire range.

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by Sellout

I don't really want to get into what I dislike about the voodoo here, but suffice it to say that I think it sounds like crap, performs like crap, and is nothing but a marketing gimmick. Not as bad as Dodge's ridiculous "hemi," but along those lines I guess.

The aluminator is almost interesting, but I'd honestly rather take an LS1 and build it into a high RPM 427 screamer. Better power and better packaging. Ford's DOHC engines are GIANT. I've had cars that were smaller.

The S65 sounds absolutely incredible, has the kind of sharp throttle response that just shouldn't be possible in a street car, has one of the most amazing torque curves in existence and makes me giggle every time I accelerate onto the highway next to a k-rail. I want to put one into an S2000. If it will fit between the strut towers.

Well I own both an E90 M3 and a 2017 GT350 and I have to say, I freakin love the voodoo V8's power delivery. Don't get me wrong the S65 is a wonderful engine and I don't intend to ever sell my E90, but, I honestly can't understand how someone could say the voodoo is crap? I can't knock the grin off of my face every time I go through the gears, and personally I love the sound even more than the S65.

Marketing gimmick or not, the UDUD design of the flat plane crank in the voodoo V8 makes it very unique among V8's and I like uniqueness. Yes there are cars out there that are faster and quicker than the GT350, but that was true for the E9X M3 when it first came out. As far as character goes I honestly haven't driven a car in my life that has more character than the GT350 and most of that character is as a result of the engine.

[oolas3]

At the claimed HP, GT350 should be faster than it is.

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by m3m3mr

At the claimed HP, GT350 should be faster than it is.

Based on what? 7:32 at the ring on a bone stock GT350 isn't fast enough? That's 33-seconds faster than the E92 M3 with the same vehicle weight.

[oolas3]

Originally Posted by Green-Eggs

Based on what? 7:32 at the ring on a bone stock GT350 isn't fast enough? That's 33-seconds faster than the E92 M3 with the same vehicle weight.

Based on 12.5 in the quarter mile.

7:32 is NOT the ring time for the gt350. The R yes but thats a car without AC or back seat and is tens of thousands more than it's sticker price.

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by m3m3mr

Based on 12.5 in the quarter mile.

7:32 is NOT the ring time for the gt350. The R yes but thats a car without AC or back seat and is tens of thousands more than it's sticker price.

You want a track car for the drag strip? That's a joke, right?

The curb weight difference between the 350 and R is only 105 lbs. Most R's do come with AC these days.

The M3 6MT at the drag strip didn't do so well. 12.4s @ 114 MPH @ 3500# curb weight.
350R at the drag strip was 12.1s @ 119 MPH @ 3700# curb weight.

That's a 5MPH difference with a 200# heavier car and only 100 more hp.

To each their own I guess especially if you want to measure a track car by drag strip performance.

[oolas3]

Originally Posted by Green-Eggs

You want a track car for the drag strip? That's a joke, right?

The curb weight difference between the 350 and R is only 105 lbs. Most R's do come with AC these days.

The M3 6MT at the drag strip didn't do so well. 12.4s @ 114 MPH @ 3500# curb weight.
350R at the drag strip was 12.1s @ 119 MPH @ 3700# curb weight.

That's a 5MPH difference with a 200# heavier car and only 100 more hp.

To each their own I guess especially if you want to measure a track car by drag strip performance.

The joke is you trying to confuse the R with the regular 350. The R has no audio system or trunk lining either. The R also has the carbon fiber wheels that the 350 does not. What's the ring time of gt350, again?

If I wanted a pure track car, I would get the track version of Camaro or Corvette.

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by m3m3mr

The joke is you trying to confuse the R with the regular 350. The R has no audio system or trunk lining either. The R also has the carbon fiber wheels that the 350 does not. What's the ring time of gt350, again?

Yes, I'm very familiar with the differences between the 350 and 350R. Probably more than I want because I've already been busy ordering parts for Bert's 350R. He won't shut up about it.

Is it possible you're only going off of what you're read and never seen one in person? Early 350R's didn't offer stereo. Almost all 350R's produced today have stereo and AC. It's what they call the "electronics package." The 350R does have a trunk lining, which is very visible when you see one in person. But none of that really matters when you're only talking about 105 pounds of weight savings over the non-R anyways.

If I wanted a pure track car, I would get the track version of Camaro or Corvette.

That's a different question than where we started. At first you said the 350/R sucked because of drag strip times, not track times. For a heavier car with 6MT and only 100 more whp than the M3, the 350/R looks pretty impressive to me, and that sentiment seems echoed by all of the independent reviews I've seen for it too.

[squartus]

Originally Posted by Green-Eggs

Yes, I'm very familiar with the differences between the 350 and 350R. Probably more than I want because I've already been busy ordering parts for Bert's 350R. He won't shut up about it.

Is it possible you're only going off of what you're read and never seen one in person? Early 350R's didn't offer stereo. Almost all 350R's produced today have stereo and AC. It's what they call the "electronics package." The 350R does have a trunk lining, which is very visible when you see one in person. But none of that really matters when you're only talking about 105 pounds of weight savings over the non-R anyways.



That's a different question than where we started. At first you said the 350/R sucked because of drag strip times, not track times. For a heavier car with 6MT and only 100 more whp than the M3, the 350/R looks pretty impressive to me, and that sentiment seems echoed by all of the independent reviews I've seen for it too.

Yep, after playing with one in person I was very impressed. Stock for stock vs M3? Id take the gt350 everytime, thing sounds great in person as well. And its not just me, pretty much every driver who tests it on a track falls in love.
Other brands have evolved alot, where bmw for alot of things have regressed not progressed.
Ill never sell this car, but thats because of how much iv put into it. But ill never buy another M unless BMW makes some DRASTIC changes which I do not see.

[Sellout]

Of course the Voodoo motor sounds different. It's a flat plane crank and has a single throttle body.

There's quite a bit more to it than that. If that engine was set up the way a flat plane engine should be, it would sound quite different.

As for comparing stock for stock against an M3 on track, sure, it's fast. As is the new Focus RS. It'll hang within two seconds of an E92 M3 on the ring. That doesn't make me interested in it.

so back to the task at hand... how many inches are there between the outer edges of the valve covers on an S65?

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by Sellout

There's quite a bit more to it than that. If that engine was set up the way a flat plane engine should be, it would sound quite different.

As for comparing stock for stock against an M3 on track, sure, it's fast. As is the new Focus RS. It'll hang within two seconds of an E92 M3 on the ring. That doesn't make me interested in it.

so back to the task at hand... how many inches are there between the outer edges of the valve covers on an S65?

It is not set up different than the way a flat plane should be, it is set up the way it was intended for the application.

This voodoo is an UDUD crank design as opposed to the UDDU crank like a Ferrari. A third variation on a flat plane V8 crank is UUDD. All of these designs have their pros and cons regarding Intake and exhaust packaging and balancing. Ford says they tried all three flat plane designs and decided on this one due to packaging in the Mustang

[Sellout]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

It is not set up different than the way a flat plane should be, it is set up the way it was intended for the application.

Ok.

This voodoo is an UDUD crank design as opposed to the UDDU crank like a Ferrari. A third variation on a flat plane V8 crank is UUDD. All of these designs have their pros and cons regarding Intake and exhaust packaging and balancing. Ford says they tried all three flat plane designs and decided on this one due to packaging in the Mustang

Right. And in doing so, they developed an engine that very nearly gives up all the performance benefits of a flat plane crank design, and sounds close enough to a cross-plane design that the mullet wearing crowd wouldn't be too offended.

Gimmick.