Bearings maybe on their way out at 44k and food for thought.

[TheDirtyThirty]

Visited MRF engineering in Lake Forest today with questions about a suspension install and some other general questions about cooling solutions. I only asked about the cooling solutions due to my first track experience with the e90 at buttonwillow a couple months back.

In a practically stock dct car, only mods at the time were pads, ss lines, fluid, and nto1s, I was able to hit 2:05. Nothing really to brag about but it was my first time out in the boat in 100 plus degree heat, so I was happy. Car ran pretty good except the oil temp warning light flashed at me during my hardest laps in the later session of the the day. I explained my story to Malek and without even hesitating he suggests replacing the rod bearings!

I admit I was a little taken back but judging by his knowledge, spotless shop, immaculate race car, the countless reviews from other forum members, I trust this guy and I don't trust many people. He went on to explain to me that from the times I was putting up and what these cars are capable of in stock/semi stock forum. I was barely pushing the car to the limits and there was absolutely now reason oil temps should have shot up like that, regardless of outside ambient temps. What I got out of this discussion is that the inadequate rod bearing clearances are whats causing the temps to shoot up because of the added friction. He also recommend that I get a baffled oil pan from VAC for tracking purposes, and if anything upgrade the radiator for extra cooling.

Hopefully I explained that somewhat right and maybe Malek can chime in if he's sees this. I just don't want other members throwing parts at the car to fix engine oil cooling problems when maybe the bearings are the root of the problem. I am the second owner of this car, its a 2011, only has 44k, and was well maintained according to service records

[BPMSport]

What was the oil temp?

[TheDirtyThirty]

Originally Posted by Mike Benvo

What was the oil temp?

hmmm I wanna say 250ish

[pbonsalb]

Does an oil temp warning light go on at 250? I thought oil should be good to near 300F.

[TheDirtyThirty]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Does an oil temp warning light go on at 250? I thought oil should be good to near 300F.

Okay went through old texts I sent to my tech after the warning light went on and it was around 300F

[8600RPM]

It really shouldn't hit over 260 in a properly working car. I am catless dct with tune and I had two weekends of 2 days,each on track in 100 degree days. 20 minute sessions but also had two 40 minute sessions . Even after beating at it for 40 mins straight, Redlinning and staying almost entirely in 3rd ( few shifts to 4th and 2nd) it was begged at a hair above the 255 Mark or at,255 Mark.
.
Anotger friend with a 2008 last weekend during an 85 degree day hit close,to 300 degrees and had waning.
.
You may consider washing or replacing your radiator. If too much crap gets in it over the years it loses cooling surface area .sonething is off thiugh

[TheDirtyThirty]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

It really shouldn't hit over 260 in a properly working car. I am catless dct with tune and I had two weekends of 2 days,each on track in 100 degree days. 20 minute sessions but also had two 40 minute sessions . Even after beating at it for 40 mins straight, Redlinning and staying almost entirely in 3rd ( few shifts to 4th and 2nd) it was begged at a hair above the 255 Mark or at,255 Mark.
.
Anotger friend with a 2008 last weekend during an 85 degree day hit close,to 300 degrees and had waning.
.
You may consider washing or replacing your radiator. If too much crap gets in it over the years it loses cooling surface area .sonething is off thiugh

water temps were normal from what I assume.

[Green-Eggs]

If you're considering the baffled pan, you need to know it requires cutting and welding your current pan. We found out the hard way and nothing on the web site mentions this. Not sure if they mention it now or not.

[Nihilation]

Best way to monitor oil temperatures besides eye balling the gauge? Does Carly do this?

[E36Racer]

If you are running 10-60 try a lighter oil. In my E36 I thought running 15-50 on the track would be a good idea and oil temps were usually about 250, switched to 5-30 and temps never went over 230

[webninja]

Listen to Malek, he's taken care of my M for years. He doesn't give advice to make himself money, his advise is to ensure your car will perform and last for as long as possible.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by Nihilation

Best way to monitor oil temperatures besides eye balling the gauge? Does Carly do this?

Yes it does, or at least reflect the gauge whether this is oil only or like some discussions suggest a mix in between oil/water temp (however that works and why).

Cheers

[TheDirtyThirty]

Originally Posted by webninja

Listen to Malek, he's taken care of my M for years. He doesn't give advice to make himself money, his advise is to ensure your car will perform and last for as long as possible.

I felt the same way, this guy knows his stuff. Im just in denial lol

[Solo_M_Tech]

Originally Posted by TheDirtyThirty

I felt the same way, this guy knows his stuff. Im just in denial lol

Alittle food for thought. I replace my stock bearings at 89k miles, and did my first track day at 90K miles. Even here in central Florida in 95*F ambient and 100*F track temps, my car never exceeded 250*F with me thrashing on the car. I'm running 10w60 liqui moly GT1 Race. If everything is working the way it should, you should not have hit temp warnings. Your bearings are probably toasted and it's one to swap them.

P.S. My average daily oil temps dropped by 10-15*F after the bearing swap. I rarely see more than 210*F or slightly less, during daily driving.

[redpriest]

I dunno about all that. I'm pushing the car to the limit it can handle on the stock suspension. 280 deg oil temps, 230 deg water temps, 102 deg air temps from my last Buttonwillow CCW1 track event. This is with upgraded oil cooler + radiator too btw. I have to do cooldown laps between hot laps, simply because the car will push rev limit down to 6000 RPM. This is "normal" for me. 148k miles, 40 track events on original bearings.

This was my best lap of the day, taken during the heat of late afternoon - so very hot. You'll notice I had done cooldown laps to get the oil temp down to around 250, then they spike up to around 277-280. If I had gone for another lap, I would have gotten temp warnings:

(mute the sound, mic is cutting in and out which is annoying)

[redpriest]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

It really shouldn't hit over 260 in a properly working car. I am catless dct with tune and I had two weekends of 2 days,each on track in 100 degree days. 20 minute sessions but also had two 40 minute sessions . Even after beating at it for 40 mins straight, Redlinning and staying almost entirely in 3rd ( few shifts to 4th and 2nd) it was begged at a hair above the 255 Mark or at,255 Mark.
.
Anotger friend with a 2008 last weekend during an 85 degree day hit close,to 300 degrees and had waning.
.
You may consider washing or replacing your radiator. If too much crap gets in it over the years it loses cooling surface area .sonething is off thiugh

I think it depends on the track too. It can be 100+ degrees out, but if I was doing ACS or Big Willow where I'm spending a lot of time at high speed, the radiators can cool the car down quite a bit.

Before I upgraded my DCT cooler, I would get shift lag even at ACS - fortunately, that's gone with the upgrade, even at Buttonwillow, which is really demanding.

[TheDirtyThirty]

Originally Posted by redpriest

I dunno about all that. I'm pushing the car to the limit it can handle on the stock suspension. 280 deg oil temps, 230 deg water temps, 102 deg air temps from my last Buttonwillow CCW1 track event. This is with upgraded oil cooler + radiator too btw. I have to do cooldown laps between hot laps, simply because the car will push rev limit down to 6000 RPM. This is "normal" for me. 148k miles, 40 track events on original bearings.

This was my best lap of the day, taken during the heat of late afternoon - so very hot. You'll notice I had done cooldown laps to get the oil temp down to around 250, then they spike up to around 277-280. If I had gone for another lap, I would have gotten temp warnings:

(mute the sound, mic is cutting in and out which is annoying)

that config looks fun as hell, great driving too. Im not really sure what to think at this point Its possible your oil temps go way down with rod bearing replacement and your just running on borrowed time? Also what are you using to monitor all the temps?

[redpriest]

Originally Posted by TheDirtyThirty

that config looks fun as hell, great driving too. Im not really sure what to think at this point Its possible your oil temps go way down with rod bearing replacement and your just running on borrowed time? Also what are you using to monitor all the temps?

Maybe? I don't know either; if that's the case, I'd be interested to try it, but it's a $3000 expense for a problem I'm not sure I have yet. Seeing as my car has lasted all this time with the original bearings, I'm hesistant to interrupt a good thing.

I'm curious to see how well Buttonwillow fares in the winter with my car.

I'm using an AIM Solo DL hardwired into the CAN bus.

[TheDirtyThirty]

Originally Posted by redpriest

Maybe? I don't know either; if that's the case, I'd be interested to try it, but it's a $3000 expense for a problem I'm not sure I have yet. Seeing as my car has lasted all this time with the original bearings, I'm hesistant to interrupt a good thing.

I'm curious to see how well Buttonwillow fares in the winter with my car.

I'm using an AIM Solo DL hardwired into the CAN bus.

Yeah if I was you Id wait till winter temps, that should really be the true test. Also theres places that will do it for $2350. You gonna be at BW November 20th?

[redpriest]

Originally Posted by TheDirtyThirty

Yeah if I was you Id wait till winter temps, that should really be the true test. Also theirs places that will do it for $2350. You gonna be at BW November 20th?

I'll be at ACS on the 19th and Chuckwalla on the 20th in November.

[L4ces]

Originally Posted by redpriest

Maybe? I don't know either; if that's the case, I'd be interested to try it, but it's a $3000 expense for a problem I'm not sure I have yet. Seeing as my car has lasted all this time with the original bearings, I'm hesistant to interrupt a good thing.

I'm curious to see how well Buttonwillow fares in the winter with my car.

I'm using an AIM Solo DL hardwired into the CAN bus.

At 145K miles on original bearings with no sounds or temperature cause for concern. I convinced myself that the car was void of the bearing issue since it made it past 60K without issue. I felt better after 70K. At 100K I felt I was one of the lucky ones with a properly built engine. At 130K, I was not going to think about it further.

So, after spending gobs of money on my suspension refresh, I was given a complimentary oil analysis and the results showed a high lead count of 26ppm. As far as I know it could have shown that count at 50K, 60K, 80K, 90K who knows. Had I done an analysis earlier I would have been worried more than I have been for many miles to come. Had I not changed them, failure was likely to happen.

In short, the reality is that my bearings did not fail, however they were worn to the last layer!!! According to the shop, I got all that there was to get out of those bearings and I am lucky that my crank was not damaged.

Moral of the story, right now, your bearings could be just as bad, better or worse. Based on my personal experience, I would do a preventative maintenance. I called Malek in California, I called engine rebuilders from VA, Connecticut etc. I got them done!


http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...8&postcount=84

[Shredicus]

Originally Posted by L4ces

At 145K miles on original bearings with no sounds or temperature cause for concern. I convinced myself that the car was void of the bearing issue since it made it past 60K without issue. I felt better after 70K. At 100K I felt I was one of the lucky ones with a properly built engine. At 130K, I was not going to think about it further.

So, after spending gobs of money on my suspension refresh, I was given a complimentary oil analysis and the results showed a high lead count of 26ppm. As far as I know it could have shown that count at 50K, 60K, 80K, 90K who knows. Had I done an analysis earlier I would have been worried more than I have been for many miles to come. Had I not changed them, failure was likely to happen.

In short, the reality is that my bearings did not fail, however they were worn to the last layer!!! According to the shop, I got all that there was to get out of those bearings and I am lucky that my crank was not damaged.

Moral of the story, right now, your bearings could be just as bad, better or worse. Based on my personal experience, I would do a preventative maintenance. I called Malek in California, I called engine rebuilders from VA, Connecticut etc. I got them done!


http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...8&postcount=84

He's stated in other threads he wants to drive it on original bearings until it blows, so I doubt you'll convince him otherwise in spite of your apropos anecdote