VF620 tune files (offroad vs emissions).

[stevekstevek]

Hey folks.

I have an '08 e93 with the VF620 kit on it. I bought it used a month or so ago.

I had some trouble initially getting it to pass emissions, but mainly because I needed to replace an O2 sensor. After I did that, the car was able to pass and driveability improved somewhat.

I now have 2 tune files from VF:
- The "offroad" tune, and
- The "emissions" tune.

I don't know what tune the car came with, but I have flashed it with the emissions tune. Although the car passed emissions, I still have some driveability issues -- it seems to hesitate sometimes under moderate throttle conditions under around 3k rpm.

It also doesn't seem to have much power under 2-3k RPM, but I don't have a good baseline to compare too (my old 2000 LS1 F-body had more power down low for sure).

I really don't know what the difference is between the tune files.

After some reading, it could be that the "offroad" tune is better in all respects, but may not lead to some emissions controls reading "ready" at inspection time.

I guess I could (should) just try the "offroad" tune, and see what happens -- but was wondering if any other VF owners / knowledgeable people could comment on the differences.

Will I end up with a SES light with the "offroad" tune?
Which is better for driveability?
Which is better for reliability?
Difference in mileage (just for giggles, mileage is super-bad in any case, eh?).

Also, is the "hestitation" I'm getting something to worry about? It doesn't sound like knocking or anything, just a momentary reduction in power..

[W Cole]

Originally Posted by stevekstevek

Hey folks.

I have an '08 e93 with the VF620 kit on it. I bought it used a month or so ago.

I had some trouble initially getting it to pass emissions, but mainly because I needed to replace an O2 sensor. After I did that, the car was able to pass and driveability improved somewhat.

I now have 2 tune files from VF:
- The "offroad" tune, and
- The "emissions" tune.

I don't know what tune the car came with, but I have flashed it with the emissions tune. Although the car passed emissions, I still have some driveability issues -- it seems to hesitate sometimes under moderate throttle conditions under around 3k rpm.

It also doesn't seem to have much power under 2-3k RPM, but I don't have a good baseline to compare too (my old 2000 LS1 F-body had more power down low for sure).

I really don't know what the difference is between the tune files.

After some reading, it could be that the "offroad" tune is better in all respects, but may not lead to some emissions controls reading "ready" at inspection time.

I guess I could (should) just try the "offroad" tune, and see what happens -- but was wondering if any other VF owners / knowledgeable people could comment on the differences.

Will I end up with a SES light with the "offroad" tune?
Which is better for driveability?
Which is better for reliability?
Difference in mileage (just for giggles, mileage is super-bad in any case, eh?).

Also, is the "hestitation" I'm getting something to worry about? It doesn't sound like knocking or anything, just a momentary reduction in power..

The off-road tune sounds like their standard tune and should mask any cat related check engine lights. The emissions tune is a special tune so you are able to pass emissions. I don't know the difference but would personally stay out of the boost with this tune and only use it to pass emissions then flash back to the standard tune.

FYI very few vf owners are running the vf tune due to driveability and reliability issues. Most run a tune from BPM.. i don't have any experience with their tune but driveability has been reported on par with ESS which is what I've been running.

Hesitation could be bad plugs. when were they changed last?

[stevekstevek]

I don't know when anything was done, other than the SC install happened somewhere between 25,000 and 47,700 miles.

Seems hard to believe that "most" people with the VF kits also went somewhere else for tunes.

Are you saying that you have the ESS tune on a VF kit? I thought ESS wouldn't do that.

[8600RPM]

Well power comparison between and lt1 or ls1 and an s65 is night and day, supercharged or not. No low end torque in your m3. Gotta keep it up in revs

[W Cole]

Originally Posted by stevekstevek

I don't know when anything was done, other than the SC install happened somewhere between 25,000 and 47,700 miles.

Seems hard to believe that "most" people with the VF kits also went somewhere else for tunes.

Are you saying that you have the ESS tune on a VF kit? I thought ESS wouldn't do that.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I have an ess tune on an ess kit.

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by stevekstevek

I don't know when anything was done, other than the SC install happened somewhere between 25,000 and 47,700 miles.

Seems hard to believe that "most" people with the VF kits also went somewhere else for tunes.

Are you saying that you have the ESS tune on a VF kit? I thought ESS wouldn't do that.

Might want to read these 2 threads:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=845593

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=823010

If you bought a car w/out any maintenance records, you're a bigger man than I. I'd suggest contacting a BMW dealer to determine what, if any, maintenance has been done, and then do what wasn't done. In addition, I would get an oil analysis to help determine if the rod bearings are exhibiting accelerated wear, as the 2008 model (I have one as well) will have higher concentrations of lead in the oil.

And you are correct, ESS only provides an emissions compliant tune for their products.

I would also stop using the emissions tune immediately and switch back over to the other.

Finally, you might be surprised at the number of people that run Benvo tunes on their s/c'ed cars. You'd probably want to reach out to him to get additional information.

[takrdown]

I bought an E90 M3 in January with a VF-620. The previous owner also went to BPM for his tune and I continued with it. When I needed to pass emissions I continued working with Mike Benvo to get the car to pass as I was getting no joy from VF. Their hardware is sound but their support and software...well....make your own conclusions.

I want to tell you that Mike's tune is a waste a money, but it's not. It's probably the best investment you can make in our platform. Not only does he provide you with the tune, but the real money maker is the support he provides in the software. I have 100% piece of mind that if I get a crazy code or something isn't acting right software wise with the car he will help me out.

Is it a lot of money...yes.....but as my BMW race car driver buddy tells me everyday "You have to pay to play." You're just not going to own an M3 and have it be cheap.

[stevekstevek]

Thanks folks. I did read through southshorem3's saga.

I did have a bit of trouble initially getting a SES put out, but the codes I got were for an O2 sensor, and I needed an O2 sensor. Once I replaced it, I was getting some codes for the secondary air pump. They are still there, but the light is off and it passed.

I put the "offroad" tune back in, and it seems to be reducing the hesitation (I thought it might have been due to the O2 sensor). I'll see how that fares.

I'll try getting the service history from BMW -- I have the carfax, but maybe they can tell me when they last changed plugs.


My plan:
- No matter what: Warm up car nicely!

- Wait a bit to see if the secondary air thing clears up. (maybe 500 miles or so).
- Do the plugs: If the secondary air thing is still a problem, deal with it the same time, since I'll have to take the manifold off anyway.

- Oil change: I'm thinking of going M1 0W-40 per some of the rod bearing threads.

- Rod Bearings: I think I'll do them once the enhanced clearance ones are available ("custom clevite").

Considering the BPM tune -- it's a bunch of $$ -- but if I have problems, it's something I'd consider.

The car is not a DD -- mainly a weekend car, and I'm hoping to have it for a long time.

Thanks for the feedback!

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by stevekstevek

Thanks folks. I did read through southshorem3's saga.

I did have a bit of trouble initially getting a SES put out, but the codes I got were for an O2 sensor, and I needed an O2 sensor. Once I replaced it, I was getting some codes for the secondary air pump. They are still there, but the light is off and it passed.

I put the "offroad" tune back in, and it seems to be reducing the hesitation (I thought it might have been due to the O2 sensor). I'll see how that fares.

I'll try getting the service history from BMW -- I have the carfax, but maybe they can tell me when they last changed plugs.


My plan:
- No matter what: Warm up car nicely!

- Wait a bit to see if the secondary air thing clears up. (maybe 500 miles or so).
- Do the plugs: If the secondary air thing is still a problem, deal with it the same time, since I'll have to take the manifold off anyway.

- Oil change: I'm thinking of going M1 0W-40 per some of the rod bearing threads.

- Rod Bearings: I think I'll do them once the enhanced clearance ones are available ("custom clevite").

Considering the BPM tune -- it's a bunch of $$ -- but if I have problems, it's something I'd consider.

The car is not a DD -- mainly a weekend car, and I'm hoping to have it for a long time.

Thanks for the feedback!

My car isn't my daily either, but I have a BPM Stg II tune. As you read through the many posts about Benvo, one of the reoccurring themes you'll catch is his customer service....which is TOP NOTCH. He answers my texts and emails expeditiously, is knowledgeable, and is timely. And the tune really brings the car to life.

[W Cole]

Originally Posted by stevekstevek

Thanks folks. I did read through southshorem3's saga.

I did have a bit of trouble initially getting a SES put out, but the codes I got were for an O2 sensor, and I needed an O2 sensor. Once I replaced it, I was getting some codes for the secondary air pump. They are still there, but the light is off and it passed.

I put the "offroad" tune back in, and it seems to be reducing the hesitation (I thought it might have been due to the O2 sensor). I'll see how that fares.

I'll try getting the service history from BMW -- I have the carfax, but maybe they can tell me when they last changed plugs.


My plan:
- No matter what: Warm up car nicely!

- Wait a bit to see if the secondary air thing clears up. (maybe 500 miles or so).
- Do the plugs: If the secondary air thing is still a problem, deal with it the same time, since I'll have to take the manifold off anyway.

- Oil change: I'm thinking of going M1 0W-40 per some of the rod bearing threads.

- Rod Bearings: I think I'll do them once the enhanced clearance ones are available ("custom clevite").

Considering the BPM tune -- it's a bunch of $$ -- but if I have problems, it's something I'd consider.

The car is not a DD -- mainly a weekend car, and I'm hoping to have it for a long time.

Thanks for the feedback!

FYI you do NOT need to take off the manifold to do the plugs. The hardest part is getting the drivers side engine cover off with the supercharger in the way. This may not be an issue with the VF kit but with ESS you need to loosen up the charger and move out of the way a bit.

[777eThOd*]

I recently purchased a M3 with a VF620 kit installed along with Akrapovic Full exhaust. It's CPO'd and have all the records of the car and always maintenanced at BMW of SF before it was shipped down here to Houston. It passed emissions perfectly, but wondering if maybe it's on a emissions tune. It came with a OBDII plug in module with a number on top of it. It's my weekend car too love it so far.

[W Cole]

Originally Posted by 777eThOd*

I recently purchased a M3 with a VF620 kit installed along with Akrapovic Full exhaust. It's CPO'd and have all the records of the car and always maintenanced at BMW of SF before it was shipped down here to Houston. It passed emissions perfectly, but wondering if maybe it's on a emissions tune. It came with a OBDII plug in module with a number on top of it. It's my weekend car too love it so far.

Read your smog report. I am guessing Texas allows 1 or more parameters to read not ready and still pass. California only allows the EVAP to read not ready for a new car like the m3.

[777eThOd*]

Originally Posted by W Cole

Read your smog report. I am guessing Texas allows 1 or more parameters to read not ready and still pass. California allows 0 for a new car like the m3.

I actually did the inspection on my car and had ran a practice and had 2 not readys and drove it like 40 miles and everything was ready finally. The O2 Heater wasn't ready and Cats.. guessing the dealer cleared it or reset it when it was in Cali and didn't put enough miles on it when they had to move it.

[mj89h]

Your surging/bucking/hesitation should go away if you replace the primary 02 sensors that are before the cats. I recently changed both of these sensors and the difference is night and day.

There is not enough emphasis I can put on the importance of doing preventative maintenance on these S/C cars. Here is a good read on the recommended intervals. Although I prefer to do plugs more often as the car drives much better with fresh plugs.

SC M3 Maintenance Thread

I would also reccomend you get the oil analyzed as a way to gauge how the engine is trending. The rod bearings on this car are a serious issue that need to be monitored... You can get a free kit from blackstone blackstone labs

As for the tune discussion... when I purchased my car a year ago it had the VF620kit and tune on it. To be blunt it was too aggressive of a tune; timing was too advanced, everything felt coarse. After trying to reach out with my concerns they didn't do anything.

I ended up going with BPM for the tune. Although mike is a bit of a cheeky cunt at times the tune is undeniably good. I could feel a slight drop in power at the top end due to the reduction in timing but gained throughout the entire power band. Not to mention everything felt wayyy smoother. I will give it to VF that the hardware is good on this kit. But their shit tune and attitude towards people who buy their kits used is piss poor.

If you can get everything dialed in this becomes an amazing car to drive. Especially when its nice and cold out

Best of luck
Justin

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by W Cole

Read your smog report. I am guessing Texas allows 1 or more parameters to read not ready and still pass. California allows 0 for a new car like the m3.

You are correct. We can show 1 "not ready" and still pass.

[W Cole]

Originally Posted by mj89h

Your surging/bucking/hesitation should go away if you replace the primary 02 sensors that are before the cats. I recently changed both of these sensors and the difference is night and day.

There is not enough emphasis I can put on the importance of doing preventative maintenance on these S/C cars. Here is a good read on the recommended intervals. Although I prefer to do plugs more often as the car drives much better with fresh plugs.

SC M3 Maintance Thread

I would also reccomend you get the oil analyzed as a way to gauge how the engine is trending. The rod bearings on this car are a serious issue that need to be monitored... You can get a free kit from blackstone blackstone labs

As for the tune discussion... when I purchased my car a year ago it had the VF620kit and tune on it. To be blunt it was too aggressive of a tune; timing was too advanced, everything felt coarse. After trying to reach out with my concerns they didn't do anything.

I ended up going with BPM for the tune. Although mike is a bit of a cheeky cunt at times the tune is undeniably good. I could feel a slight drop in power at the top end but gained throughout the entire power band. Not to mention everything felt wayyy smoother. I will give it to VF that the hardware is good on this kit. But their shit tune and attitude towards people who buy their kits used is piss poor.

If you can get everything dialed in this becomes an amazing car to drive. Especially when its nice and cold out

Best of luck
Justin

Thanks for the tip. I have some minor hesitation even after replacing the plugs (although new plugs helped a ton). Just ordered 2 new 02 sensors.

[8k3]

a vf620 should have no hesitation or bucking. what codes are you getting?

replace o2 sensors, replace spark plugs if more than 10k on them, ensure your injectors are clean (run techron or seafoam). Run the emission ready tune. Contact VF for more help

[W Cole]

Originally Posted by stevekstevek

Thanks folks. I did read through southshorem3's saga.

I did have a bit of trouble initially getting a SES put out, but the codes I got were for an O2 sensor, and I needed an O2 sensor. Once I replaced it, I was getting some codes for the secondary air pump. They are still there, but the light is off and it passed.

I put the "offroad" tune back in, and it seems to be reducing the hesitation (I thought it might have been due to the O2 sensor). I'll see how that fares.

I'll try getting the service history from BMW -- I have the carfax, but maybe they can tell me when they last changed plugs.


My plan:
- No matter what: Warm up car nicely!

- Wait a bit to see if the secondary air thing clears up. (maybe 500 miles or so).
- Do the plugs: If the secondary air thing is still a problem, deal with it the same time, since I'll have to take the manifold off anyway.

- Oil change: I'm thinking of going M1 0W-40 per some of the rod bearing threads.

- Rod Bearings: I think I'll do them once the enhanced clearance ones are available ("custom clevite").

Considering the BPM tune -- it's a bunch of $$ -- but if I have problems, it's something I'd consider.

The car is not a DD -- mainly a weekend car, and I'm hoping to have it for a long time.

Thanks for the feedback!

Are you getting code 27B2 "Secondary air system throughput main section"? I am getting this on my ESS kit as well. I read that its common for supercharged cars and I shouldn't worry

[8k3]

Originally Posted by W Cole

Are you getting code 27B2 "Secondary air system throughput main section"? I am getting this on my ESS kit as well. I read that its common for supercharged cars and I shouldn't worry

HAHAHA at that response. you shouldn't have that code. The system should be of off if you don't have cats

[777eThOd*]

Mine came with this, I know it's not from BPM. No idea from who.