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12-12-2009, 12:09 PM | #67 | |
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Now, non stock is a hole different ball game, say 9ff Cayman or Ruff is something out of this world!! Lol!! Dinan stroker or RD RS46 Club Sport? I personally like it better than a 911tt for instance and so on.
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12-12-2009, 12:18 PM | #68 | |
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my personal views on things have changed, i still love M cars as much as i did 20 years ago, infact maybe even 20 times more but that does not mean i have to be brand loyal, arent we all "car" enthusiasts at the end of the day? there are some good, some bad, some ugly and then a prius |
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12-12-2009, 12:24 PM | #69 | |
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and if they do go F/I and you end up selling ur M to get something else that will cater for ur needs, will you find yourself on a M3 forum in the future complaining about the route that they have chosen? |
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12-12-2009, 12:26 PM | #70 | |
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Last edited by KonigsTiger; 12-13-2009 at 09:49 AM.. |
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12-12-2009, 12:28 PM | #71 | |
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12-12-2009, 12:47 PM | #73 |
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12-12-2009, 12:54 PM | #74 | |
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Cheers, e46e92
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"...it's not about the money and not about the brand of the car, it's about handling,performance and passion......And that, no other car has all together like an M3........when you talk about the most complete car the M is invincible." --Tony Kanaan. Last edited by e46e92love; 12-13-2009 at 11:33 AM.. |
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12-12-2009, 01:01 PM | #76 | |
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Cheers, e46e92
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"...it's not about the money and not about the brand of the car, it's about handling,performance and passion......And that, no other car has all together like an M3........when you talk about the most complete car the M is invincible." --Tony Kanaan. |
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12-12-2009, 02:11 PM | #77 | |
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I really do have an open mind and I will certainly give the next M3 a drive or two before making up my mind. Who knows, maybe I'll like it better. I doubt that will be the case if it's low revving, but I've been wrong before about things. We'll just have to wait and see. |
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12-12-2009, 02:13 PM | #78 | |
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12-12-2009, 02:20 PM | #79 | |
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Well said. I agree with everything you said.
Yes, BMW for years mocked AMG for using forced induction calling it "cheating" and frowning upon it as a hurdle in the way of engineering and building perfect engines for the chassis. BMW always said M cars will never have forced induction since it hinders the throttle sensitivity, does not entertain all of the driver's senses and creates lag in response. BMW for years quoted their "M Philosophy" as daily driven cars that could be driven to race tracks on the weekend and run exceptional lap times and that M cars must entertain all of the senses of the drivers and it must have a "race car like sound" with high-revving engines and low-mass inertia so that the engine cranks up to the rev limit very quickly. Oh and people bringing the F40 in this picture have no clue what they are talking about. The F40 like the R34 GT-R could rev up to 10,000 rpm and make the most soul stirring F1 race car sounds anyone could imagine even with turbos. That is why I love both these cars because despite turbos, they needed to be revved the heck out of the engine for power. The downside is it is extremely expensive to make turbocharged high-revving engines because the internals need to be strengthened, which is why BMW has distanced itself from high-revving engines. Please don't compare these cars with low-revving, turbocharged M cars with these masterpiece cars. For some people using sport bike as the perfect example for high-revving vehicles, some of us do not like or "feel safe" revving the heck out of a sport bike out in the open air and risking our lives. We like to have the safety of being in a vehicle so stop putting sport bikes in a debate about high-revving cars. Thanks. Quote:
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12-12-2009, 02:30 PM | #80 |
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What low-revving cars?
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12-12-2009, 02:37 PM | #81 | |
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For the M3, technically speaking you are correct. No one (outside BMW) knows what to expect from that engine yet. In theory they could do a high revving inline 6 similar to the S54 but with turbochargers. But this seems extremely unlikely at this point. |
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12-12-2009, 02:41 PM | #82 |
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My next car will be a GT3.
The M will remain my daily driver until it is no longer serviceable. I'll be an anachnonism with my manual transmission, rear wheel drive and naturally aspirated engine. And I'll love every minute of it.
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12-12-2009, 02:41 PM | #83 |
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I'm glad I gave some people a wake up call (so to speak) with those two posts which appear to have done exactly what I intended.
I simply made that statement to get those kind of reaction because too many here were making comments that it would be their last M like what Ruff suggested but fact is they are simply cars and they continue to evolution and enviornment among other things effect the directions manufacturers MUST take but it doesn't mean that their underlinning character has to dramatically change. Too many demand high revving without actually understand what that means in an FI engine. The likelihood is that the F10 M5 will redline over 7k, that is mighty close to the old E39 M5 which in many people's eyes was the best M5 ever. The new M3 will be smaller with fewer cylinders so it's likely that it will rev north of 7.5k which again is getting on for what the E46 did and better the most of the previous M3. So guys, get a grip and have faith in the engineers that have brought you the wonderful cars you have enjoyed and loved all these years. |
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12-12-2009, 02:43 PM | #84 |
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I can bet the new M cars will follow the X5 M and X6 M. High-revving turbo cars are extremely expensive to produce since the internals need to be designed differently for it to operate reliably for a very long period of time. As of now, BMW cannot even get a low-revving turbo right with all the HPFP issues in 335, a high-revving turbo engine will have far worse reliability issues.
Here is X5 M revving to redline. That is how the next M5 is going to sound: http://blog.caranddriver.com/tags/na...-exhaust-note/ BMW is getting away from high-revving cars in order to avoid the need for short gearing, final drive due to lots of torque at the low end and to reduce the emissions. All of the spy videos showing M5 lapping the Nurburgurging (with the big hood hump and quad exhausts) show it to be a turbocharged low-revving car much like the X5 M with no engine note to speak of or write home of. I can bet the next generation M5 and M3 will have a rev limit of 7000 rpm only and due to slow piston speeds and low compression, it will not sound anything like a racing car.
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12-12-2009, 03:11 PM | #85 |
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I think they might raise the compression and lower the boost, like Porsche did in the new turbo.
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12-12-2009, 03:15 PM | #86 |
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All things are subject to interpretation; whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
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12-12-2009, 05:04 PM | #88 | |||
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1. Exhaust system design does not have a huge influence on sound. 2. BWM will use the same exhaust system on the XMs and Ms.
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