Getting the S65 to safe 600whp/Forged internals(engine builders only please)

[GabeS]

I have a AA Gen1-Stage 2 SC kit for my E93 build, but I believe it puts me at barely over 500whp.
I am shooting for 600whp, and need to upgrade to the Stage 3 kit.


Aside from having a look at the oil to see if I need new bearings, is Forged internals required for this HP number?
Are people running 600whp without touching anything but the bearings?
key word(TO THE WHEELS) not crank.

Also for the engine builder experts only:

I have seen some turbo cars running High boost, replacing the rods and piston rings only for forged parts, which are the first to go in case of failure. like a poor mans forged build, allows for higher boost and doesn't cost $10-15k
Would that make sense for the S65 also?


So basically the 2 questions are:
1- Is forged internals required for a stage 3 AA sc kit?

2- Would replacing rods and piston rings for forged internals alone do any good in terms of making it withstand the abuse better?

[Mit_Boost]

Active Autowerke Level 3 on Stock Motor - 586 WHP

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=816197


Rods and Pistons may be enough depending on how much HP you're going for. Besides the obvious parts swap (honing, break in, etc.), you may also need to look at ancillary upgrades (fueling).

[GabeS]

thanks for that link man! I think I honestly would be happy with anything above 550 to the wheels. and 585 solid sounds good if it's safe on oem internals.
that's literally what I was hoping for, people to chime in with examples of others who have high horsepower on stock internals..

[BrewRifle]

Wouldn't most 650 supercharger kits put you right around 550 WHP when using 93 octane and running fully catless?

[S65M]

I'm running a Gintani set-up and making 580whp. You wont be disappointed if you decide to run similar kit.

[777eThOd*]

I have VF650 kit with bolt ons and tune and on 93 on my E93 and I'm putting 580 to the wheels, want to see if I can pulley down again and see if I can obtain a special race tune that I found some guy running on a VF 650 kit also with bolt ons but running 93 with mix of 109 and said he makes 650-680 to the wheels..

[Mit_Boost]

Originally Posted by GabeS

thanks for that link man! I think I honestly would be happy with anything above 550 to the wheels. and 585 solid sounds good if it's safe on oem internals.
that's literally what I was hoping for, people to chime in with examples of others who have high horsepower on stock internals..

Another plus is that car was running the OEM headers. It's possible with aftermarket headers (ARH/BimmerWorld/Schmiedmann) that you could break 600 WHP on a supercharged stock motor setup.

[GabeS]

ty!I contacted AA and they want to charge $4500 approximately to upgrade to stage 3.. wtf.. I got my kit used for $5500 I might just sell this kit and buy a stage 3 instead lol. or does anyone know of a cheaper way to upgrade to stage 3? sourcing parts separately?

[GabeS]

Originally Posted by Mit_Boost

Active Autowerke Level 3 on Stock Motor - 586 WHP

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=816197


Rods and Pistons may be enough depending on how much HP you're going for. Besides the obvious parts swap (honing, break in, etc.), you may also need to look at ancillary upgrades (fueling).

Originally Posted by S65M

I'm running a Gintani set-up and making 580whp. You wont be disappointed if you decide to run similar kit.

did you do the bearings?

[GabeS]

Originally Posted by 777eThOd*

I have VF650 kit with bolt ons and tune and on 93 on my E93 and I'm putting 580 to the wheels, want to see if I can pulley down again and see if I can obtain a special race tune that I found some guy running on a VF 650 kit also with bolt ons but running 93 with mix of 109 and said he makes 650-680 to the wheels..

Did you get your bearings done?

[pbonsalb]

The centrifugal makes little boost in the low to midrange. It is much safer for 600 rwhp on a weak rod motor than turbo(s) would be. But with 12.0:1 CR, detonation is a concern on 91/93 pump at 600 rwhp. I would say 93 only, preferably with meth or E85 or an ethanol blend would reduce the detonation concern.

[SmokinFast]

I just upgraded to the AA Stage 3 with meth on 93 octane. Stock internals. Put down 592 whp and 436 wtq on a Dynojet. BE Bearings were done as part of the upgrade. Prior to upgrade, Stage 2 was 495 whp/353 wtq. Just added carbon fiber driveshaft and heading back to dyno to see if I gain anything that is more than just normal variation. Not really expecting, but no harm in checking.

[Mit_Boost]

Originally Posted by GabeS

did you do the bearings?

It's unfortunate, but it seems that bearings are a normal maintenance item on the S65s. It'll be interesting to see how the BE Bearings hold up long term and if they're an actual solution.

[E90_M3_Dubai]

I have Gintani stg3 (V2 Vortech with E50 fuel/Meth) on stock internals

Car got 648whp on Mainline Hub dyno @7700 rpms

but beyond this Ill need better fuel system and forged LC internals to increase the boost and gain more

[squartus]

If anything goes it will be your #1 main bearing, the superchargers on this car put extra stress on one side of the crank. Happened to a few guys on here, and is what blew my engine and forced me to do a stroker build.

[OM VT3]

Originally Posted by squartus

If anything goes it will be your #1 main bearing, the superchargers on this car put extra stress on one side of the crank. Happened to a few guys on here, and is what blew my engine and forced me to do a stroker build.

What kit do you have?

[squartus]

Originally Posted by OM VT3

What kit do you have?

ESS vt2 625.

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by 777eThOd*

I have VF650 kit with bolt ons and tune and on 93 on my E93 and I'm putting 580 to the wheels, want to see if I can pulley down again and see if I can obtain a special race tune that I found some guy running on a VF 650 kit also with bolt ons but running 93 with mix of 109 and said he makes 650-680 to the wheels..

You know he "misspoke" about that, right? All in the E85 thread....We had that "conversation".

Originally Posted by TT_SM3RF

Mexico Racing League Video of my E92 M3 going up against 2 boosted Mustangs
https://youtu.be/pNX4nAQgqyQ

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

Something doesn't add up, and I'm hoping you can provide some clarity. In the video of you vs the Mustangs, @ :33, you indicated that you were running a mix of "109" race gas (which is 101 octane) and 93 octane. You said you were putting down "650-680 @ the wheels".

You indicated that you put down "WHP=527.70 TQ=359.43 at around 7.8 lbs of boost and AFR 12.042" @ Eurocharged on Shell 93.

You indicate that you "recently tested E75 and according to my data logging, was at 590whp and 393lbs of torque with an AFR of 12.749."

Your dyno numbers for your 3rd run "3rd Run 61% Ethanol WHP=576.86 TQ=384.77 12.385"

You stated your car was making 650-680WHP on a mix of race gas/93 octane, which you got no where near using the flex fuel setup. If your car was making, by your own admission, 75-100WHP *more* using the mix, why are you going to use this setup?

Originally Posted by TT_SM3RF

First off lets clarify here, the whp I mentioned in the video was meant for the crank and not to the wheels so I misspoke there.

[GabeS]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

The centrifugal makes little boost in the low to midrange. It is much safer for 600 rwhp on a weak rod motor than turbo(s) would be. But with 12.0:1 CR, detonation is a concern on 91/93 pump at 600 rwhp. I would say 93 only, preferably with meth or E85 or an ethanol blend would reduce the detonation concern.

Yes, I am glad you guys responded! This kit.
This kit comes with the methanol injection. But I was wondering if I could do a e85 tune instead, I assume it would be much safer on the engine?
Is there even an option for that for E90x M3s?

[pbonsalb]

Not sure anyone other than gintani has done an e85 tune for forced induction on one of these cars. Certainly it could be done. You need bigger injectors than you have now and more fuel pump capacity than you have now because e85 uses about 1/3 more fuel to make the same power.

[Weyne Masters]

Go to Syvecs and get a standalone ECU,new injectors ID 1700 X 2 fuel pump ,lines and rail 14 MM.
And you can run aup to 100 METH and get 700 WHP in stock engine

[schnell1982]

All these dyno numbers....
Are you wanting "Dyno Jet" numbers or "Mustang" dyno numbers.
There is a significant difference in dyno readings. Fueling, tuning aspect etc.
I think that shooting for a specific number is 1 thing, but I like that you are asking about the integrity of the engine itself. Anyone can make a dyno read high numbers for advertisement purposes. Its sad but true.

I think there is a low compression ESS supercharge build that goes to many air strip attacks etc. I reference that build because that car is put thru the paces time and time again. It would be interesting to know what was done to that motor because he is deff past the 600 WHP mark.

I would reach out to VAC and ESS directly since they have been known to get into these motors alot. VAC would give you more of an unbiased answer since they do not push a specific product brand. They just do good work period.