Official: no M3 CSL to be produced

[southlight]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I think the key is that your M is in quotes. Was that how it was written in the published article as well? Surely M Division will help tune the suspension and chassis for the top level X5 and X6, but I think it is all but confirmed they will be labeled "is". I.e. X5 xDrive50is and X6 xDrive50is.

The article reads that Willisch pretty much wanted to be understood that way. He didn't explicitly say 'there will be an M X6 and M X5', though.

Originally Posted by lvwirelessguy

They have also said that not only will a CSL version be produced but it will make its way to North America this time.

There is certainly a market for a CSL version in Europe, probably one in North America too since any CSL produced would come with The M-DCT which is selling like mad over here unlike the 6MT version.

IMHO its really too early for any thumbs up / thumbs down to be given on an M3 CSL

BMW never said that a CSl will come to the US. Truth to be told Scott (the BMW insider posting at a site whose name I forgot ) always denied it will make it to the US due to regulation issues.

Building no CSL whatsoever is a certain change on BMW's side though. They still reserve to change their mind once again as Willisch said "From today's perspective, there won't be a CSL".


Best regards, south

[KonigsTiger]

What precisely makes the CSL a car that cannot be sold in the USA? Seats? Airbags? Crumple zones?

[southlight]

Originally Posted by swiss_cornholio

When Porsche introduced the Cayenne, you could say the same about Porsche as now for the M GmbH. They sell their reputation of making true sports cars. IMO cars like the Cayenne and the X3/5/6 should be BANNED! They are ugly and make no sense, neither on the road nor off it:

If you want a true offroader: get a Toyota LandCruiser

If you want the space and the comfort: get a 5 series

If you want a sports car: get an M3/5/6 or a 911

Personally I'm all agreeing with your point of view. But everybody should be free to drive and buy what he or she wants to.

My point is just the following: As somebody already mentioned the introduction of the Cayenne didn't make the 911 series a worse car. The same goes for the possible or now likely introduction of an ///M X5 or ///M X6. As long as BMW builds only one M car that can hold its history up I'm pleased. The existence of an ///M X6 alone would not bar me from buying the next gen M3 or Z4M. Would it bar you?


Best regards, south

[southlight]

Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico

What precisely makes the CSL a car that cannot be sold in the USA? Seats? Airbags? Crumple zones?

My understanding is that the U.S. regulation and approval procedure itself is expensive enough to make it unprofitable. Don't know if that's the true reason or just the 'official' one.


Best regards, south

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by southlight

My understanding is that the U.S. regulation and approval procedure itself is expensive enough to make it unprofitable. Don't know if that's the true reason or just the 'official' one.


Best regards, south

Makes sense since there were so few of them. Thanks.

[ybbiz34]

Would you guys buy the M3 CSL if it cost LESS than a regular M3?

I mean, considering all the crap they strip out, I don't know why they couldn't sell one for an equal or lesser price than the standard M3. I realize that BMW tweaks the performance of the car quite a bit which includes better/more expensive materials, etc. but I still think a stripper CSL for around the same price as the current M would do well. No?

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

Would you guys buy the M3 CSL if it cost LESS than a regular M3?

I mean, considering all the crap they strip out, I don't know why they couldn't sell one for an equal or lesser price than the standard M3. I realize that BMW tweaks the performance of the car quite a bit which includes better/more expensive materials, etc. but I still think a stripper CSL for around the same price as the current M would do well. No?

I do understand your question, I friend of mine and I visited the Ferrari dealer last week to see an F430 Scuderia, he said he would take the F430 Spyder over it any day. But for enthusiasts like me, I would pay more for the CSL in a heart-beat.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico

Sure, I tink it will be ///M x6 etc...

So what shall we wager then? I like the $100 to a charity of choice option that I did last time with T-Bone.

Also, I am curious what engine will be powering this ///M X6? Do you believe it will be some form of the N64, some for of the S85, or are you thinking something else?

[TLud]

I don't see what the big uproar is. When Porsche started building the Cayenne, did the 911 line start going to hell (aside from the wet sump issue)? Did the Boxster suddenly turn into a soft, poorly handling, bloated cow? Did Porsche stop developing exciting new products like the Cayman?

So, who cares? If you don't like the Cayenne or the X5M, don't buy it. But appreciate the fact that the existence of these other lines help keep the cars we love in development and production. Don't be so naive. 95% of their customer base aren't enthusiasts like most here on these forums.

As long as BMW and ///M keep building cars I love to drive, I don't give a crap if they decide that they want to start building big pink blimps stamped with the M logo.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by southlight

The article reads that Willisch pretty much wanted to be understood that way. He didn't explicitly say 'there will be an M X6 and M X5', though.

Indeed south. Even not seeing the article, I fully suspected as much. Hence my bet.

One thing though, since this is the case (that is, that it was not specifically mentioned they will be labeled M vehicles) then how can the writer use this as the basis for an article about how M is losing their way? Sounds like a lot of sensationalism to me, especially for what is supposed to be a reputable source. Personally I do not think M is losing their way and no amount of "reputable" news or interviews from BMW employees - whoever they might be - will convince me otherwise. I do find it surprising how stories like this always seem to get people riled up though. Instead, I prefer to base my emotional state of being on things that are empirically verifiable. But I guess that's a bit of paradox, now isn't it?

[nusevad]

aw that sucks.

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

So what shall we wager then? I like the $100 to a charity of choice option that I did last time with T-Bone.

Also, I am curious what engine will be powering this ///M X6? Do you believe it will be some form of the N64, some for of the S85, or are you thinking something else?

OK, $100 US sounds great to me. I have paypal so we can settle through that!! I agree it should also include the engine. About the engine, thats a tough call, the S85 lack of torque for a heavy vehicle, so all go with a tt v8 with larger turbos etc...

[Krueger///M3]

Just because they said that they wouldn't be building a "M1" super-car doesn't mean that they will not be making a super-car at all. What about the GINA concept?

[Big Windy]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

Well, you threw it out there...give me an example of a business that doesn't exist to make money -- an example that also doesn't involve a government subsidy.

Maybe I am not being clear enough. Businesses do exist to make money...that is the only way that they can remain a business. But that is not their sole purpose. Many people start businesses for personal reasons (charity, ego, etc). Example: Lamborghini.


A little snippet: Founded by Ferruccio Lamborghini, Lamborghini started out as a tractor building company in the Italian village of Sant'Agata Bolognese. However, Ferruccio Lamborghini's priorities changed when he went to meet Enzo Ferrari at the Ferrari factory to complain about the quality of the clutch in his Ferrari 250.[2] An infuriated Enzo Ferrari sent him away telling him to go drive his tractors because he was not able to drive cars. Lamborghini went back to his factory to have the Ferrari's clutch dismantled and found that the clutch in the Ferrari was made by the same manufacturer who supplied the clutches used in Lamborghini tractors. Lamborghini installed a stronger clutch from his factory's warehouse into his Ferrari and solved the clutch failure.

Furious with Enzo Ferrari's arrogant and aloof manner, Ferruccio Lamborghini promised himself he would never own another Ferrari, and would beat Ferrari at his own game, by creating a superior sports car of his own.
/wiki

While Lamborghini's priorities might have changed over time to become more focused on making money, the original intent and purpose of the business was pride and ego. Ferruccio wanted to deliver a product that was better than his competitor.

So, I guess that when I think of ///M, I think of it in a similar light to Lamborghini. It was founded to deliver the elite sport vehicles of BMWs lineup. An X5 or X6 doesn't belong in the ///M garage, let BMW do the tweaky. ///M should stick to its roots.

That's just me though...

[keanu1]

i don't know what kind of studies they are making, but i'm sure there are more buyers for an m3 csl than for x5m or x6m!!
Thats symply stupid!!
the new rs5 will come soon so i think m3 will have some problems!!
A csl is needed!!

[southlight]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Indeed south. Even not seeing the article, I fully suspected as much. Hence my bet.

One thing though, since this is the case (that is, that it was not specifically mentioned they will be labeled M vehicles) then how can the writer use this as the basis for an article about how M is losing their way? Sounds like a lot of sensationalism to me, especially for what is supposed to be a reputable source. Personally I do not think M is losing their way and no amount of "reputable" news or interviews from BMW employees - whoever they might be - will convince me otherwise. I do find it surprising how stories like this always seem to get people riled up though. Instead, I prefer to base my emotional state of being on things that are empirically verifiable. But I guess that's a bit of paradox, now isn't it?

Well, it was not an article about BMW losing their way, it was just an interview. Sorry in case I wasn't clear.

Originally Posted by keanu1

i don't know what kind of studies they are making, but i'm sure there are more buyers for an m3 csl than for x5m or x6m!!
Thats symply stupid!!
the new rs5 will come soon so i think m3 will have some problems!!
A csl is needed!!

Willisch said they assume to sell as much of 'these' cars as they sell M5s. That meant way more buyers than for the CSL.


Best regards, south

[M3 LUST]

Originally Posted by Big Windy

Maybe I am not being clear enough. Businesses do exist to make money...that is the only way that they can remain a business. But that is not their sole purpose. Many people start businesses for personal reasons (charity, ego, etc). Example: Lamborghini.


A little snippet: Founded by Ferruccio Lamborghini, Lamborghini started out as a tractor building company in the Italian village of Sant'Agata Bolognese. However, Ferruccio Lamborghini's priorities changed when he went to meet Enzo Ferrari at the Ferrari factory to complain about the quality of the clutch in his Ferrari 250.[2] An infuriated Enzo Ferrari sent him away telling him to go drive his tractors because he was not able to drive cars. Lamborghini went back to his factory to have the Ferrari's clutch dismantled and found that the clutch in the Ferrari was made by the same manufacturer who supplied the clutches used in Lamborghini tractors. Lamborghini installed a stronger clutch from his factory's warehouse into his Ferrari and solved the clutch failure.

Furious with Enzo Ferrari's arrogant and aloof manner, Ferruccio Lamborghini promised himself he would never own another Ferrari, and would beat Ferrari at his own game, by creating a superior sports car of his own.
/wiki

While Lamborghini's priorities might have changed over time to become more focused on making money, the original intent and purpose of the business was pride and ego. Ferruccio wanted to deliver a product that was better than his competitor.

So, I guess that when I think of ///M, I think of it in a similar light to Lamborghini. It was founded to deliver the elite sport vehicles of BMWs lineup. An X5 or X6 doesn't belong in the ///M garage, let BMW do the tweaky. ///M should stick to its roots.

That's just me though...

This is merely anecdotal evidence, meaning it's worthless (whether or not it's true or not) - ie, my wife's cousin's friend John really likes pizzas so he opens an italian restaurant and claims that he does it because he likes pizzas, instead of because he likes to make money. It's purely anecdotal, although I can anticipate a "gotcha!" moment by saying that I too am familiar with Lamborghini's alleged reasoning in starting to produce sports cars.

Every Economics 101 course/textbook will teach you that people build sports cars or make pizzas because of the profit motive. Period.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico

OK, $100 US sounds great to me. I have paypal so we can settle through that!! I agree it should also include the engine. About the engine, thats a tough call, the S85 lack of torque for a heavy vehicle, so all go with a tt v8 with larger turbos etc...

Sounds good.

I agree the engine will be the turbo V8 so no need to include that in the bet.

BTW, you may find this an interesting read too:

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/07/28/s...-activity-cou/

Not that autoblog is by any means a 100% reliable source.

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Sounds good.

I agree the engine will be the turbo V8 so no need to include that in the bet.

BTW, you may find this an interesting read too:

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/07/28/s...-activity-cou/

Not that autoblog is by any means a 100% reliable source.

Thanks!! I will read.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by southlight

Well, it was not an article about BMW losing their way, it was just an interview. Sorry in case I wasn't clear.

No its my fault - I thought someone said that above but I was mistaken.

[Big Windy]

Originally Posted by M3 LUST

This is merely anecdotal evidence, meaning it's worthless (whether or not it's true or not) - ie, my wife's cousin's friend John really likes pizzas so he opens an italian restaurant and claims that he does it because he likes pizzas, instead of because he likes to make money. It's purely anecdotal, although I can anticipate a "gotcha!" moment by saying that I too am familiar with Lamborghini's alleged reasoning in starting to produce sports cars.

Every Economics 101 course/textbook will teach you that people build sports cars or make pizzas because of the profit motive. Period.

I admit defeat (but I still say that there shouldn't be a MX5)

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by Big Windy

I admit defeat (but I still say that there shouldn't be a MX5)

There is still a chance that they don't badge it ///M.