Planning to convert my e92 M3 DCT to Manual 6MT

[Razif]

Hello everyone.

Going to be a long thread, but its a plan for a very rare project, might be worth to cont reading .

My love for manual cars is so deep that I am seriously considering this.

I have a 2011 E92 M3 DCT ZCP and I plan to convert it to manual by changing the gearbox and other stuffs. I am from Malaysia and there is no manual here at all, so there is no choice to buy one. Not even 1 Manual, damn lazy Malaysians...This is the only way to get a manual e92 here, Can't buy new anyway, since its out of production.

Bought this car around 2 years ago, even back then, I already ask a shop and he says it's possible, he had even done it on a 335i e90 (which in my book isn't that much different than the m3, cause the electronic stuffs is similar).

2 years ago when I asked the shop, he said his friend have a totalled car from Japan which is a Manual m3 and he could do the conversion with the parts from that car. He has done a ton of e36 and e46s plus one 335i conversion.

Fast and furious tokyo drift forward 2 years later, I have asked him again about the totalled Japan car but he has yet to comfirm with me if the car is available now, I hope it is available. Im quite sure at least the transmission is available since no one ever want manual here lol.

I never drove or felt the manual in the E92 M3 before. However, from what I read here and there, a lot of people say the manual in m3 is not the best. They compare it to porches and stuff. For example, a new m6 owner says the manual in his m6 is so much better than his old e9x m3.

Another important question I want to ask is , does a transmission that sits in a totalled car for a long time (say 5 years) goes bad? or it's not affected? Or perhaps the affects is minimal and can be ignored?


I would just love to be able to drive manual, its just that putting the gear in with a stick feeling, but if the 6mt in m3 is bad I might even pass.

Still,I'm seriously considering the conversion. If I go with the conversion, I will most likely get the UCP clutch replacement soon after.

Keep in mind the labor here is much cheaper than USA. So it's is not thatttt expensive to do this job here. Total cost for the complete conversion is around $5k USD.

Is the manual in m3 so much worse compared to Porsche or some hondas for example?

Thanks for your time.
Razif

[pbonsalb]

It is too bad you don't live near me. I would take out my 6 speed and trade it for your DCT and we could do it on my lift.

[bkdore]

Remember you need to swap the differential as well - the ratios are different.

[L4ces]

I have a rusted bucket 2001 Honda Civic and the manual is imho night and day above my e92 manual. But When in the M3, as dispel that myth as I get better, my enjoyment level gets reset and I enjoy the hell out of it )as recent as this morning).

And with an exhaust that you can hear, the concerted efforts of clutching at different a rates and changing shifting times turn the drive into a musical instrument to which you are its sole conductor.

With the above said, I would find comparable love for the DCT, especially the non-intermittent quick pounding shifts gives me chills I'll only experience as a passenger.

You just can't loose!

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Razif

Hello everyone.

Going to be a long thread, but its a plan for a very rare project, might be worth to cont reading .

My love for manual cars is so deep that I am seriously considering this.

I have a 2011 E92 M3 DCT ZCP and I plan to convert it to manual by changing the gearbox and other stuffs. I am from Malaysia and there is no manual here at all, so there is no choice to buy one. Not even 1 Manual, damn lazy Malaysians...This is the only way to get a manual e92 here, Can't buy new anyway, since its out of production.

Bought this car around 2 years ago, even back then, I already ask a shop and he says it's possible, he had even done it on a 335i e90 (which in my book isn't that much different than the m3, cause the electronic stuffs is similar).

2 years ago when I asked the shop, he said his friend have a totalled car from Japan which is a Manual m3 and he could do the conversion with the parts from that car. He has done a ton of e36 and e46s plus one 335i conversion.

Fast and furious tokyo drift forward 2 years later, I have asked him again about the totalled Japan car but he has yet to comfirm with me if the car is available now, I hope it is available. Im quite sure at least the transmission is available since no one ever want manual here lol.

I never drove or felt the manual in the E92 M3 before. However, from what I read here and there, a lot of people say the manual in m3 is not the best. They compare it to porches and stuff. For example, a new m6 owner says the manual in his m6 is so much better than his old e9x m3.

Another important question I want to ask is , does a transmission that sits in a totalled car for a long time (say 5 years) goes bad? or it's not affected? Or perhaps the affects is minimal and can be ignored?


I would just love to be able to drive manual, its just that putting the gear in with a stick feeling, but if the 6mt in m3 is bad I might even pass.

Still,I'm seriously considering the conversion. If I go with the conversion, I will most likely get the UCP clutch replacement soon after.

Keep in mind the labor here is much cheaper than USA. So it's is not thatttt expensive to do this job here. Total cost for the complete conversion is around $5k USD.

Is the manual in m3 so much worse compared to Porsche or some hondas for example?

Thanks for your time.
Razif

.

[Razif]

Thanks for the input guys.

@pbonsalb
Yeah damn...too bad we're far off.

Originally Posted by L4ces

I have a rusted bucket 2001 Honda Civic and the manual is imho night and day above my e92 manual. But When in the M3, as dispel that myth as I get better, my enjoyment level gets reset and I enjoy the hell out of it )as recent as this morning).

And with an exhaust that you can hear, the concerted efforts of clutching at different a rates and changing shifting times turn the drive into a musical instrument to which you are its sole conductor.

With the above said, I would find comparable love for the DCT, especially the non-intermittent quick pounding shifts gives me chills I'll only experience as a passenger.

You just can't loose!

So u're saying even that old honda's manual feels better? Sometimes I think the m3 6MT only feels bad when we are driving it slowly/averagely.
Common sense says that once u drive it like u stole it, the manual feels better, this is true to you?

Plus I got Akrapovic Evo full system exhaust, will make it sound better and more rewarding with each good shifts huh

Yeah I'm still thinking as well, going to enjoy my dct first and play with it.

Made a mistake of putting a 20" inch wheels on my car, it affect the performance. I am no expert but still can feel that 20" just doesn't feel good driving it.

As we speak, I am changing to 18" volks very soon. Then I will get the true DCT experience.

Plus, I can just ask the shop to change it back to DCT even after I have changed it to manual. wahhahaha.. Lets say I get bored after a year, I put dct back, Lul. Best of both worlds it seems .

One bad news tho.....kinda dissapointed to know this. UCP Clutch does not come for BMWs with Right hand drive... damn. I won't get the full manual experience without UCP.

Hopefully the UCP company will custom make one for me .

[R3dliner]

The 6MT on the M3 is way better than any Japanese or American car. My G37 coupe had the worst clutch systems in the world.

Honda manuals are a joke. They are so easy to drive with very high engagement points, and the gearboxes are so loose.

OP the gearbox on the M3 is solid. The engagement point is a tad high and 1st to 2nd requires some finesse. The butt stops do help as wells as the udp pedal kit.

[Razif]

Butt stops? what is that?

UDP doesn't come for right hand drive m3s as of now..unfortunately.

[R3dliner]

clutch stops I meant lol

[Law]

OP, when people say the 6MT in the E9x M3 is "not the best", it is all relative.
If you've driven an S2000 or a Porsche with a manual gearbox, you'll find the shift action very smooth and direct. In the S2000, for example, it is so smooth and fluid that you can go about shifting with just a slide of your fingers.
Comparatively speaking, BMW manual transmissions (not just the E9x) have traditionally been more notchy and on the "heavy" side.
They require the driver's attention to operate.
While different it is not inferior. Those who make blanket statements like that are basically saying all BMW manual transmissions suck, which certainly isn't the case. All of them are enjoyable, but if you go in with a mindset that all manuals should feel like the one in the S2000, then you'll be sorely disappointed.
Still, beginning with the improvements made on the transmission in the 1M (bearings and synchros) and with development carried over to the newer F-chassis, it is said that the manuals in the newer BMWs are smoother in feel, less notchy, with a more fluid movement.
But let's get back to the M3.

I've owned two generations of M3s, both with 6MT, and both daily driven.
I can say with confidence that the 6MT in the E9x is smoother and less noisy than the one in the E46, which was quite notchy and had the infamous "M-clunk" The E46 clutch had slightly more direct feel vs. the E9x, which has a smoother take-up, but the actual shifting feel and actuation is a win for the E9x in my book.
Nobody calls the E46 6-speed junk, but many are quick to criticize the E9x 6-speed, even though it's better.
Why is that? Well, I think this is a matter of perspective.
The alternative to the E46 6MT was the SMG, which, for most intents and purposes, was truly horrid and unreliable. It shared the same ratios as the 6MT, so there was really little, if any, performance benefit other than the lack of human error (i.e., money shift).
The DCT in the E9x though, proved to be smooth, more reliable than SMG, and had better gear ratios than the 6MT.
Using that as a basis, then of course, 6MT in the E9x loses some of its value to the DCT compared to the previous generation, when it was 6MT vs SMG.

But taken by itself, as a manual transmission, the 6MT in the E9x is actually quite good and has given me many smiles through the years. In fact, I've found through driving multiple generations and models of BMWs with manuals, that all of them are very enjoyable.

TL;DR: Don't listen to the haters. Any RWD BMW with a manual transmission makes for a joyous experience indeed.

[Razif]

@Law.

I think I get what you mean. What you said is similar to what I had in mind as well. I was thinking the 6mt in m3 not necessarily "bad", it's just different. Its harder and stiffer and stuff, which makes it different.

Anyone knows if a transmission that is sitting in a totalled car for like 5 years make it goes bad?

[hungryhippo]

Not bad and not the best. It's better than the f10 M5 i test drove.

[Razif]

Originally Posted by hungryhippo

Not bad and not the best. It's better than the f10 M5 i test drove.

Heard here and there from the forums that the F series m5 is not as good as the F series m6. Seems the M6 manual is kinda good huh.

[SYT_Shadow]

I have a 6MT and DCT M3

The 6MT has the UCP and the Autosolutions ssk and i tell you, it is pure spiritual creaminess

I prefer the dct on track as it is faster, but i drove my manual m3 on track today and it was beautiful

[Razif]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I have a 6MT and DCT M3

The 6MT has the UCP and the Autosolutions ssk and i tell you, it is pure spiritual creaminess

I prefer the dct on track as it is faster, but i drove my manual m3 on track today and it was beautiful

Yeah....however, knowing (just found out yesterday) that the UCP only comes with Left hand drive car and I can't use UCP is really killing my passion to go thru with this... big turn off not being able to use UCP.

Its right hand drive here.

Never even bothered to check all these while since I assume for sure UCP will work, but nah, its left hand only...fuk that.

Unless UCP custom make one for me, one can dream..

[Razif]

SYT_Shadow

Come on syt, custom make/mod some right hand drive clucth and make it just like UCP for me, I know u're creative

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Razif

SYT_Shadow

Come on syt, custom make/mod some right hand drive clucth and make it just like UCP for me, I know u're creative

I did not see any magic in the ucp pedal. If you remove the springs from the oem clutch you will likely achieve a similar result. I like the ucp, but it isn't night and day

The AS ssk was a huge, huge difference

[Razif]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I did not see any magic in the ucp pedal. If you remove the springs from the oem clutch you will likely achieve a similar result. I like the ucp, but it isn't night and day

The AS ssk was a huge, huge difference

At least something . The SSK is a must if I did do this (of course ater a month or two "feeling" the oem.

Anyway U serious abt removing the springs makes a "better" feel? I was thinking its the spring and lower 15mm that makes the UCP felt better.

How can removing the spring make it feel better? I imagine otherwise.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Razif

At least something . The SSK is a must if I did do this (of course ater a month or two "feeling" the oem.

Anyway U serious abt removing the springs makes a "better" feel? I was thinking its the spring and lower 15mm that makes the UCP felt better.

How can removing the spring make it feel better? I imagine otherwise.

in the UCP instructions it talks about that. People with pre-LCI cars also removed theirs to make it feel better

There's a DIY here someone

[6ixSpd]

Lol @ people thinking a 2001 Honda Civic manual is better than an E9x. If that's the case, you need to fix your car.

I've owned almost half dozen MT BMWs since the E36 days. Never have I felt the BMW MT was inferior to a pedestrian Honda's. It's not as crisp as a stock Porsche MT but it is damn good.

[L4ces]

Originally Posted by 6ixSpd

Lol @ people thinking a 2001 Honda Civic manual is better than an E9x. If that's the case, you need to fix your car.

I've owned almost half dozen MT BMWs since the E36 days. Never have I felt the BMW MT was inferior to a pedestrian Honda's. It's not as crisp as a stock Porsche MT but it is damn good.

I'd laugh too if didn't write it. Your response and others (which were quite mild btw), made me reread what it wrote.

I have to agree that for me to claim my 221K mile rusted Honda manual is better than 2008 e92 M3's manual sounds ludicrous. I should have put more time into wording.

I don't really know what makes one manual better than another. I can only say I can shift quicker without anything impeding my shift in the honda.

My honda
- lots of play in the shifter
- not notchy through shifts at any gear, I can moves through gears as fast as I can get my hands to move.

My e92
- little to no play
- sturdy feeing
- 1-2 shifts takes practice and is notchy. That doesn't make it worse; just feels different.

I really don't have anything to cry about; they are both feel different.

[Razif]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

It is too bad you don't live near me. I would take out my 6 speed and trade it for your DCT and we could do it on my lift.

That may not be easy even if we are close.

Auto to manual conversion has been done to various other cars and even bmws. But I have never heard of manual to auto.

Perhaps it can be done its just that it is so much rarer.