Suspension Upgrade For Part Time Track Car

[rhyary]

AiM RS2 has a screen for suspension where I can see my pots in mm/sec view

I can't find this in RS3 Beta.

Can someone help me with a math channel formula to create mm/sec from mm travel?

I probably have to divide the mm traveled by something.

I learned from my reading that the Low Speed is 0-25.4mm/sec and High Speed is 25-155mm/sec so now I am looking at my pots data with renewed interest.

Already learned that on my stiff setting I was at LRP is still too fast for the hill producing 160mm/sec movement.

TIA

[///Mobbin]

Lot of good discussion in this thread, wish I had caught it earlier. I'm currently trying to build the perfect combination street and track car, as many of us are, and really appreciate a lot of the thinking here. On my last e92 m3 I ended up taking things a little too far in the track direction and it spoiled my enjoyment of the car on the street, though I certainly learned a lot in the process. I'm taking a different approach with this car and am pretty happy with where things are at now.

For suspension I had MCS 2WNR 600/900 on my last car and I couldn't get the street comfort right for me, a lot of different parts on that car also though so who knows what contributed the most. I did consider MCS 3-way remotes for this car as a number of folks have been able to dial them properly for the street but budget factored in as well so I ended up with Ohlins R&T with standard valving and upgraded springs from Barry at 3DM.

I've posted some about my setup in this Ohlins thread: LINK (see pages-3 and 4) and also picked my spring rates from Move Over posts on this thread: LINK.

After discussing things with Barry quite extensively (Barry knows his stuff when it comes to Ohlins as he also helped develop the dedicated track kit with Ohlins and was in the midst of that when I purchased my kit) I thought Alex's spring rates (second thread above) would be what I was after and that NVH and comfort would also be on point for street purposes.

Full circle, I've been enjoying the kit for over a year now and have continued to experiment with tire selection, engine mounts, transmission mounts, tire selection, and a number of other suspension related parts and I think I've arrived at a good middle ground with incredible street comfort, low NVH, and still have an overall package that's quite fun and capable on track.

A few components (from my current build) that I think were important in achieving a good combo street/track car:
Ohlins R&T with either standard or increased spring rates, I'm running 448F/784R Swift springs in lengths that Barry chose
OE transmission mounts
OE engine mounts (I may still try 70a or 80a engine mounts)
Side note -- You can follow my experimentation with all kinds of mounts in this thread: LINK
Ground Control STREET camber plates, they have a rubber insert that helps with NVH - Barry also went out of his way to fabricate sleeves that mate perfectly between these plates and the Ohlins front dampers for me, I also have sleeves that Ground Control said should work and that likely would but Barry's mate slightly better, not a huge deal but wanted to mention it.

I'm also now running staggered PS4S tires on the street, 255 front and 285 rear on 18-inch wheels. The comfort of these tires alone vs my 100tw 275 square track set is night/day, they are a big part of the puzzle. I'm enjoying the skinnier front tires on the street also as they don't follow every little bump in the road as much as the 275's.

I set the Ohlins 15-clicks on the street and the comfort is quite surprising, for the track I'm between 1-5 clicks depending on the track and still experimenting there. The clicks make a huge difference.

Small novel I know but wanted to share my experiences and current happiness with my latest setup, comfortable on the street and fun/capable on track, just what I've been after

[94jedi]

Just updating this thread on the direction I went.

I had initially ordered the basic off the shelf Ohlins setup w/ GC street camber plates on Black Friday from IND. After several weeks and not so much as a confirmation from IND, I cancelled my order and did what I should have done from the beginning - Call Barry at 3DM. Spoke to Barry at length about my use case, current and future plans. I ended up w/ a nice semi-custom setup w/ Vorschlag plates and 65 mm springs (slightly higher rate than the OTS kit) that allow me to upgrade to heavier spring rates in the future. Should have it installed soon. Can't say enough great things about Barry at 3DM and thanks to @derbo for pointing me in 3DM's direction.

[derbo]

Originally Posted by ///Mobbin

Lot of good discussion in this thread, wish I had caught it earlier. I'm currently trying to build the perfect combination street and track car, as many of us are, and really appreciate a lot of the thinking here. On my last e92 m3 I ended up taking things a little too far in the track direction and it spoiled my enjoyment of the car on the street, though I certainly learned a lot in the process. I'm taking a different approach with this car and am pretty happy with where things are at now.

For suspension I had MCS 2WNR 600/900 on my last car and I couldn't get the street comfort right for me, a lot of different parts on that car also though so who knows what contributed the most. I did consider MCS 3-way remotes for this car as a number of folks have been able to dial them properly for the street but budget factored in as well so I ended up with Ohlins R&T with standard valving and upgraded springs from Barry at 3DM.

I've posted some about my setup in this Ohlins thread: LINK (see pages-3 and 4) and also picked my spring rates from Move Over posts on this thread: LINK.

After discussing things with Barry quite extensively (Barry knows his stuff when it comes to Ohlins as he also helped develop the dedicated track kit with Ohlins and was in the midst of that when I purchased my kit) I thought Alex's spring rates (second thread above) would be what I was after and that NVH and comfort would also be on point for street purposes.

Full circle, I've been enjoying the kit for over a year now and have continued to experiment with tire selection, engine mounts, transmission mounts, tire selection, and a number of other suspension related parts and I think I've arrived at a good middle ground with incredible street comfort, low NVH, and still have an overall package that's quite fun and capable on track.

A few components (from my current build) that I think were important in achieving a good combo street/track car:
Ohlins R&T with either standard or increased spring rates, I'm running 448F/784R Swift springs in lengths that Barry chose
OE transmission mounts
OE engine mounts (I may still try 70a or 80a engine mounts)
Side note -- You can follow my experimentation with all kinds of mounts in this thread: LINK
Ground Control STREET camber plates, they have a rubber insert that helps with NVH - Barry also went out of his way to fabricate sleeves that mate perfectly between these plates and the Ohlins front dampers for me, I also have sleeves that Ground Control said should work and that likely would but Barry's mate slightly better, not a huge deal but wanted to mention it.

I'm also now running staggered PS4S tires on the street, 255 front and 285 rear on 18-inch wheels. The comfort of these tires alone vs my 100tw 275 square track set is night/day, they are a big part of the puzzle. I'm enjoying the skinnier front tires on the street also as they don't follow every little bump in the road as much as the 275's.

I set the Ohlins 15-clicks on the street and the comfort is quite surprising, for the track I'm between 1-5 clicks depending on the track and still experimenting there. The clicks make a huge difference.

Small novel I know but wanted to share my experiences and current happiness with my latest setup, comfortable on the street and fun/capable on track, just what I've been after

I remember reading about you unable to find a street comfort with the 600/900 MCS2WNR. I had a very similar experience when I went to 600/900 back in late November as I also switched over to Titan7 with Hankook RS4s at the same time. My initial impressions were "Did I make a mistake doing this?" as it was pretty rough in San Francisco. Turns out a little dampening tuning went a long way. I dropped compression/rebound dampening by a fair amount and it is stiffer but nowhere near the intolerable levels when I first test drove.

That said, after doing a few laps in my wife's M2 with Ohlins R&T off the shelf (set to 15 for street, 5 for track), I would 100% be happy with a custom 3DM spec Ohlins if I were to do it again.

[kyippee]

A lot of talk about Ohlins Dedicated here. I see even FCP Euro sells it, but it's currently backordered. https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...hlins-bmu-mu40

Does anybody know if the Ohlins dedicated setup, out of the box can fit 18x10.5 ET22 wheels with 295/30/18 tires?

I'm running tires like Nankang AR-1, Toyo RR, A052 in that sizing and my current JRZ setup with similar spring rates clears it with 5" front and 7" rear springs. I might switch to running 275/35/18 tires like the Maxxis RC1 R2 on the 18x10.5 wheels, so there might be more clearance to be had.

[slcook54]

Originally Posted by kyippee

A lot of talk about Ohlins Dedicated here. I see even FCP Euro sells it, but it's currently backordered. https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...hlins-bmu-mu40

Does anybody know if the Ohlins dedicated setup, out of the box can fit 18x10.5 ET22 wheels with 295/30/18 tires?

I'm running tires like Nankang AR-1, Toyo RR, A052 in that sizing and my current JRZ setup with similar spring rates clears it with 5" front and 7" rear springs. I might switch to running 275/35/18 tires like the Maxxis RC1 R2 on the 18x10.5 wheels, so there might be more clearance to be had.

I have the 3dm ohlins track day kit en route. It states it's meant to work with 275/35/18 et25 without spacers. I'm running titan7 18x10 Et25 square. Barry at 3dm is helpful.

[Redd]

Originally Posted by ///Mobbin

Lot of good discussion in this thread, wish I had caught it earlier. I'm currently trying to build the perfect combination street and track car, as many of us are, and really appreciate a lot of the thinking here. On my last e92 m3 I ended up taking things a little too far in the track direction and it spoiled my enjoyment of the car on the street, though I certainly learned a lot in the process. I'm taking a different approach with this car and am pretty happy with where things are at now.

For suspension I had MCS 2WNR 600/900 on my last car and I couldn't get the street comfort right for me, a lot of different parts on that car also though so who knows what contributed the most. I did consider MCS 3-way remotes for this car as a number of folks have been able to dial them properly for the street but budget factored in as well so I ended up with Ohlins R&T with standard valving and upgraded springs from Barry at 3DM.

I've posted some about my setup in this Ohlins thread: LINK (see pages-3 and 4) and also picked my spring rates from Move Over posts on this thread: LINK.

After discussing things with Barry quite extensively (Barry knows his stuff when it comes to Ohlins as he also helped develop the dedicated track kit with Ohlins and was in the midst of that when I purchased my kit) I thought Alex's spring rates (second thread above) would be what I was after and that NVH and comfort would also be on point for street purposes.

Full circle, I've been enjoying the kit for over a year now and have continued to experiment with tire selection, engine mounts, transmission mounts, tire selection, and a number of other suspension related parts and I think I've arrived at a good middle ground with incredible street comfort, low NVH, and still have an overall package that's quite fun and capable on track.

A few components (from my current build) that I think were important in achieving a good combo street/track car:
Ohlins R&T with either standard or increased spring rates, I'm running 448F/784R Swift springs in lengths that Barry chose
OE transmission mounts
OE engine mounts (I may still try 70a or 80a engine mounts)
Side note -- You can follow my experimentation with all kinds of mounts in this thread: LINK
Ground Control STREET camber plates, they have a rubber insert that helps with NVH - Barry also went out of his way to fabricate sleeves that mate perfectly between these plates and the Ohlins front dampers for me, I also have sleeves that Ground Control said should work and that likely would but Barry's mate slightly better, not a huge deal but wanted to mention it.

I'm also now running staggered PS4S tires on the street, 255 front and 285 rear on 18-inch wheels. The comfort of these tires alone vs my 100tw 275 square track set is night/day, they are a big part of the puzzle. I'm enjoying the skinnier front tires on the street also as they don't follow every little bump in the road as much as the 275's.

I set the Ohlins 15-clicks on the street and the comfort is quite surprising, for the track I'm between 1-5 clicks depending on the track and still experimenting there. The clicks make a huge difference.

Small novel I know but wanted to share my experiences and current happiness with my latest setup, comfortable on the street and fun/capable on track, just what I've been after

I want to echo this post. My car is mainly a street/canyon carver with some trackdays, but I don't intend for it to be a competitive car. It is my daily driver and most of all should be fun to drive without breaking my back.

I started out with Ohlins R/T fully standard springs and valving. Of course it was perfect for street but undersprung for track. Over the years I've done quite a lot to the chassis - solid bushes, monoballs, full spherical at the rear, powerflex engine mounts and diff bushes - and surprise surprise, I think I have hit the perfect street/track setup now. I run 12-11 clicks for street, 2 clicks for track and it feels perfect. On the street it feels firm without being harsh and the chassis feels solid without any slop. Rear end grip is amazing. Most importantly the car is still very daily driveable.

My advice is that before going all crazy on stiff springs, try to get rid of the sloppy rubber bushes in the chassis first. You may find that you can get away with much softer springs/damping which is both great for comfort and grip.

[///Mobbin]

Originally Posted by Redd

I want to echo this post. My car is mainly a street/canyon carver with some trackdays, but I don't intend for it to be a competitive car. It is my daily driver and most of all should be fun to drive without breaking my back.

I started out with Ohlins R/T fully standard springs and valving. Of course it was perfect for street but undersprung for track. Over the years I've done quite a lot to the chassis - solid bushes, monoballs, full spherical at the rear, powerflex engine mounts and diff bushes - and surprise surprise, I think I have hit the perfect street/track setup now. I run 12-11 clicks for street, 2 clicks for track and it feels perfect. On the street it feels firm without being harsh and the chassis feels solid without any slop. Rear end grip is amazing. Most importantly the car is still very daily driveable.

My advice is that before going all crazy on stiff springs, try to get rid of the sloppy rubber bushes in the chassis first. You may find that you can get away with much softer springs/damping which is both great for comfort and grip.

Redd, seems like we're very much on the same page here! Interestingly I find I'm not making it to the track as much as I used too (kids, life, etc.) so I decided to start semi-dailying my M3 again, with that in mind I swapped my OE seats back in and am in the middle of swapping to the default Ohlins R&T spring rates. I just swapped the rear springs last week and can already tell that I will enjoy the increased comfort on the street of the default Ohlins rates. Fully intend to still track the car and dial up the dampers when I do, just a slight pivot to focus on street driving a bit more. It's awesome how we can fine tune our cars to fit what we're up to in life.

[marauder1]

Hey I know this is an older thread but good information on it and wanted to get peoples thoughts.
Bought an e92 M3 to be my track car and third car. Looking for a coilover setup. Car is street driven to and from events and just for fun. Used to have a Miata as a track car with 800/600 spring rates and fixed back seats and was perfectly fine on 5-6 hour drives, so don’t have an issue with a higher spring rate.
Looking at:
MCS I’d love 2 way remote but not sure can/want to pay that much
MCS 1 way
AST 5200
Fortune Auto 510 with remotes

Car is still NA and full weight and no aero.

I see so much talk about MSC but I don’t hear much at all about AST which I find interesting as they make a very good system and own Motion.

Anyone running AST?
Thoughts?

[bipp]

Originally Posted by marauder1

Hey I know this is an older thread but good information on it and wanted to get peoples thoughts.
Bought an e92 M3 to be my track car and third car. Looking for a coilover setup. Car is street driven to and from events and just for fun. Used to have a Miata as a track car with 800/600 spring rates and fixed back seats and was perfectly fine on 5-6 hour drives, so don’t have an issue with a higher spring rate.
Looking at:
MCS I’d love 2 way remote but not sure can/want to pay that much
MCS 1 way
AST 5200
Fortune Auto 510 with remotes

Car is still NA and full weight and no aero.

I see so much talk about MSC but I don’t hear much at all about AST which I find interesting as they make a very good system and own Motion.

Anyone running AST?
Thoughts?

another setup you could look at would be the OGSM Nitron R1: https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1914036

there seems to be good feedback on them from other people in the forum though far less than other options. I've ordered a set as well, but likely won't be able to weigh in on them (nor do I have the track experience to give qualified feedback) until early next year.

not sure how helpful this would be but here's a video of them being used in bananabun's car: https://www.m3post.com/forums/showth...2#post30486262

[M3SQRD]

I’d go with MCS 2WNR or if you can swing it get the 2WRs. I’ve used both and the mi ey is well spent on the 2WR over the 2WNR. 2WR is just overall smoother, wider range of adjustability, more range of motion, and nitrogen pressure adjustments is another nice tuning feature. The Ohlins R&T have single damping adjustment (yes, compression does change slightly with rebound adjustments) so it mostly acts like a 1-way adjustable damper. Don’t get me wrong the R&Ts are a great street-based damper and I’ve used them on my R56 Mini CS for about 10 years. You’ll outgrow the Ohlins if you start tracking frequency. I’d also stay away from JRZ - I had them on my e92 M3 and they’ve been noisy as well as requiring more frequent rebuilds. Work well when in great operating condition.

[Nish90]

Originally Posted by marauder1

Hey I know this is an older thread but good information on it and wanted to get peoples thoughts.
Bought an e92 M3 to be my track car and third car. Looking for a coilover setup. Car is street driven to and from events and just for fun. Used to have a Miata as a track car with 800/600 spring rates and fixed back seats and was perfectly fine on 5-6 hour drives, so don’t have an issue with a higher spring rate.
Looking at:
MCS I’d love 2 way remote but not sure can/want to pay that much
MCS 1 way
AST 5200
Fortune Auto 510 with remotes

Car is still NA and full weight and no aero.

I see so much talk about MSC but I don’t hear much at all about AST which I find interesting as they make a very good system and own Motion.

Anyone running AST?
Thoughts?

I'm using FA's 500 series on my car but planning to upgrade to the 510 series next month since they are modular. When I talked to them on the phone, adding a remote reservoir to the 510 series upgrades them to the "dreadnought" series. They are currently not offering this for our chassis because they need a car to confirm fitting. They are in Virginia so you could be their guinea pig!

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by Mvez

People are clueless. I've had multiple sets of Ohlins R&T revalved by PSI (before Ohlins got smart and started selling "dedicated" kits), and the performance on track is every bit as good as a MCS or JRZ shock. Sure, you don't get doubles/triples (unless TTX), but the reality is that it gives you virtually all the same performance and features at better price. Now with Dedicated Ohlins, they are valved for more proper rates, so they aren't "soft" at all.

Plus, Ohlins are inverted struts, which is what you really want for strut-based track cars.

I've got an FRS race car on revalved Ohlins R&T that easily matches handling of competitor cars with $7-10K MCS and JRZ shocks. We've had others drive Ohlins equipped cars and comment on how good they are. You just have to get them valved correctly. I'm not saying JRZ and MCS are bad, I'm just saying when you deal with a company the size of Ohlins, who has OE capacity for manufacturing, you get certain features and performance at a much lower price point. Economies of scale are what allow Ohlins to sell those RT/Dedicated kits at the prices they do, and that's with inverted struts, which are more expensive to manufacture, and provide better performance.

MCS is great, and they have a big BMW following, but it kinda reminds me back in they day when we would all buy shitty Koni twin-tubes that TC KLine brain-washed everybody with, because that was the popular internet setup....of course we all know better now. Obviously MCS are legit motorsport level stuff, and in now way am I comparing their stuff to koni crap, but the discounting of Ohlins singles is nuts.

I would take an Ohlins single over an MCS single all day long. Maybe even over their doubles to be honest. By the time you add up all the cost of springs, shock mounts, camber plates, you are over $4000 for a set of MCS singles, where Ohlins Dedicated is almost $1000 less for a full kit, with more features and benefits, along with inverted strut design. I just can't see how anybody rationalizes that MCS is somehow better when comparing apples to apples single setup.

Have you ever driven a car with MCS 1WNR, 2WNR or any 2/3/4WR setups? There is absolutely no comparison between Ohlins R&T (claimed to be 2W damper due to DFV but C damping change is minimal for R changes) and MCS dampers. You need to be running Ohlins TTX line to have a comparable damper to MCS. Inverted F struts aren’t required and MCS have a long rebuild interval. I’ve been running R&T dampers on my Mini CS for 10 years and it’s a decent damper but not in the same league of Ohlins TTX, MCS, Moton and JRZ. Ohlins R&T are a good street and entry level track setup.

[GTiceman]

Nothing to add but just want to say thanks. This is a great thread. My e90 is a fun car for me and is street driven, not daily, and do a few (~4 days at 3-4 20 min sessions a year) so I've been considering suspension for when my factory EDC setup starts to go. I'm only at 65k and no signs yet.

This car will never be a track rat for me, I'll buy another purpose built track car once I get more garage space again.

[marauder1]

Originally Posted by Nish90

I'm using FA's 500 series on my car but planning to upgrade to the 510 series next month since they are modular. When I talked to them on the phone, adding a remote reservoir to the 510 series upgrades them to the "dreadnought" series. They are currently not offering this for our chassis because they need a car to confirm fitting. They are in Virginia so you could be their guinea pig!

I’m actually down the street from them and friends with one of the reps there. When I talked to him, they didn’t sound like they had plans to offer a remote system for the car. To do a remote reservoir it would require them to invert the shocks. So not a simple change for them.