2 days,in the life of a hellcat

[8600RPM]

Well had pleasure of doing 2 day Bondurant driving school here in AZ. Had 2 days to track a hellcat as,well as the 392 charger. Both 4500 pounds.

Short story is getting in my catless e92 m3 every day to go home was a joy. I'd never trade an e92 for a hellcat. 700 hp or not the experience wasn't nearly as cool as our e92 or m3s in general. Our cars feel like go karts.

Second I realized 99 percent of people on the Internet complaining about a cars weight has had no proper driving education. The first day 8 of us got onto a Mercedes school bus,like thing and an instructor proceeded to slalom, and go around 2 mile track at blazing speed and was fast. It was nuts to see car control like that. Once I learned fluid weight control, 4500 pounds was a non issue. Of course it eats up tires and brakes but dynamics of driving were absolutely fine. So people who complain m3s at 3600 pounds are pigs, clearly aren't trained.

Overall an amazing experience that gave me a lot of confidence to hit the track this season . They have viper classes as well. They regularly get Nascar guys and pro racers to hone skills and I was very impressed.

Bottom line, hellcat has big torque and is a straight line monster but runs 285 rears and can hardly put power down. Point is overall driving experience was a million times better in an e92 or f80 m3 despite,300 less hp. 1st gear goes to 60 to give you an idea of how long gears are so 700 hp doesn't feel as fast as I thought but with gears that long I see why

[Flying Ace]

wow, really good points on weight and balance control of a heavier car.

Any pics of the Merc van that almost toppled over with you guys in it doing 80mph slaloms? lol

[ayao]

285s on the rear of that monster? That's crazy.

[davcrz5]

285's still way under tired

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

Once I learned fluid weight control, 4500 pounds was a non issue. Of course it eats up tires and brakes but dynamics of driving were absolutely fine. So people who complain m3s at 3600 pounds are pigs, clearly aren't trained.

So you are saying 2 days of driving school makes you a pro at understanding weight transfer and vehicle dynamics? Saying weight doesn't matter is what makes you sound like a noob. Try driving a car that's well below 3000 lbs and come back and tell me 3600lbs is not heavy. You can make a 5000 lbs SUV grip like a sports car, but that doesn't make it fun to drive. I've driven a large variety of cars on track and lighter cars are better in so many ways. A stock E9x M3 is heavy. My 3300lbs M3 felt so much better to drive than a stock one. That's not to say a heavy car can't perform well. But take any car and drop 300-600lbs and I guarantee it's a lot better to drive.

[8600RPM]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

So you are saying 2 days of driving school makes you a pro at understanding weight transfer and vehicle dynamics? Saying weight doesn't matter is what makes you sound like a noob. Try driving a car that's well below 3000 lbs and come back and tell me 3600lbs is not heavy. You can make a 5000 lbs SUV grip like a sports car, but that doesn't make it fun to drive. I've driven a large variety of cars on track and lighter cars are better in so many ways. A stock E9x M3 is heavy. My 3300lbs M3 felt so much better to drive than a stock one. That's not to say a heavy car can't perform well. But take any car and drop 300-600lbs and I guarantee it's a lot better to drive.

You sound like the Internet guy I'm talking about.

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

You sound like the Internet guy I'm talking about.

He's actually an experienced and very good driver and has posted vids and lap times to back it up. Also owns/owned a few track cars like a lightened modded track M3, S2000, Cayman, etc from what I remember.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

You sound like the Internet guy I'm talking about.

Right. And you sound like my son who thinks he's an expert in math because he learned to count to 3. Seriously, spend a ton more time driving different cars on the track and come back to this thread years later and realize how naive you were when writing this. Don't get me wrong, I was in your place at once too. I'm I'm know I'm not going to change your mind so just mark my words and come back to this thread after you have way more experience.

And I think you kind of missed the point of that school using heavy, high center of gravity cars. I don't think the point was that weight doesn't matter. It's that driving skill makes more of a difference than the vehicle you are commanding. And if you can master a car that handles horribly, then you'll be much faster in a car that's lighter and handles better.

[rcracin]

Wow, you just called radiantm3 an internet guy. That's ballsy stuff.

The m3 is a pig. I love it, but that's what it is. Funny you call an m3 a gokart. Go drive a civic on track. Then go drive a miata on track and you'll feel like the civic is a pig. Then go drive a gokart lol

[rcracin]

I'm also inclined to apologize to radiantm3 for your rude remark. Sorry radiantm3, please continue to post all your good stuff.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by rcracin

I'm also inclined to apologize to radiantm3 for your rude remark. Sorry radiantm3, please continue to post all your good stuff.

I don't need an apology. I am just another internet guy just like he is. Smart people will be able to figure out what sounds more right, and the rest will buy hellcats.

[Beemdog]

Had a lot of fun driving heavy pigs at the track with Cadillac's CTS-V track experience. While it was still fun, the weight of the car is always evident and affects every move. I can also appreciate a lightweight, nimble car-- even if it is not a powerhouse. They say variety is the spice of life, and I think that holds true for driving. Sometimes its not so much "better" or "worse", merely different, but in terms of raw performance, removing weight is nearly always better.

[Dave07997S]

Just got out of my FiST (Fiesta ST) that thing was a go cart, only 2790 lbs. you could feel the difference in weight tremendously.

[SSJTrunks523]

My insurance guy sent me a text with the pic of his new hellcat this morning about 30 mins after I read this thread haha.

[SSJTrunks523]

Originally Posted by Dave07997S

Just got out of my FiST (Fiesta ST) that thing was a go cart, only 2790 lbs. you could feel the difference in weight tremendously.

There is one at my gym and I want it as a little tool around car so bad!

[The-Traveler]

I enjoyed reading both of your views to be honest, and I'm reminded of how easy it is to be an asshole on the internet anonymously.

There was no need to say that lighter cars are better and that he has no clue what he's talking about, the former is obvious. His insight is still valuable and welcome.

Both of you ruined what could have been a interesting and educational dialog..

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by The-Traveler

I enjoyed reading both of your views to be honest, and I'm reminded of how easy it is to be an asshole on the internet anonymously.

There was no need to say that lighter cars are better and that he has no clue what he's talking about, the former is obvious. His insight is still valuable and welcome.

Both of you ruined what could have been a interesting and educational dialog..

I don't see why that has ended the dialog in any way. Debates are what make interesting and educational dialogs. If everyone agreed on everything, there would be nothing to talk about.

Lighter is better in the same sense that more HP is better. It's just physics. But there is a balance between power and weight and what makes a car enjoyable to drive. No one is going to say a 3600lbs E92 M3 is better than a 3300lbs E92 M3. It may be 3600lbs, but it's still a ton of fun to drive and very capable. But drop 300-400lbs on the same car and it just becomes so much better for acceleration and cornering at the limits.

[8600RPM]

My point was if unless you area really serious,track guy, I learned how good and fast you csn go in 4500 pound cars, have a ton of fun and make the car feel very nimble with proper technique . This is based on driving with instructor as we as my own improvement in throwing the weight around from first drive to the last.

Sorry for the comment btw. You seem like an experienced track guy.

[doogee]

I find I only have the most fun in my E90 M3 when I'm at a smaller track, just drifting.

My last trip to Mosport (average cornering speeds of ~100-120mph) was pretty disappointing. The car is just way too heavy.

This is coming from a ~2600lb E36 M3 though.

[roastbeef]

i have a theory- certain cars are easier to drive by the average guy than other cars. when cars are put against each other by a pro- on paper everything looks close. the lap times may be very close. however, put an average joe in the same cars being compared, and the superior car will have a much greater margin in lap times.
i think this is largely due to overall weight and balance of a car. i think this is somewhat relevant to what the op is trying to convey, but there is definitely something to be said for having less weight and a more balanced car.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

i have a theory- certain cars are easier to drive by the average guy than other cars. when cars are put against each other by a pro- on paper everything looks close. the lap times may be very close. however, put an average joe in the same cars being compared, and the superior car will have a much greater margin in lap times.
i think this is largely due to overall weight and balance of a car. i think this is somewhat relevant to what the op is trying to convey, but there is definitely something to be said for having less weight and a more balanced car.

I think it's more about power output. Average Joe can put a respectable time down on any car that has power to make up for being slow in the corners. Power totally masks weight. I know guys running 1:33-34 at Laguna Seca in a Viper ACR and everyone is giving them so much respect for being such a fast driver. Yet randy pobst is doing it in the same car 1:28. So they are 5-6 seconds slower than that benchmark. Randy did a 1:37 in the GT4 and I did a 1:40 my first time out learning he new car. But people see that as slow and not as impressive as the The guys in the ACR even though I'm much closer to the car's benchmark lap time.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by 8600RPM

You sound like the Internet guy I'm talking about.

He's not, he knows what he's talking about and you dont.