|
|
09-02-2013, 11:01 PM | #23 |
Keep practicing your almost there....
34
Rep 386
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-03-2013, 06:59 AM | #24 |
Captain
70
Rep 954
Posts |
In my E46 I jumped the gun and bought a Stoptech ST40 kit for the front of the car. I got a good deal and blah blah blah. I ended up selling it because 1) everyone says that pads, fluid, and lines are all you really need, 2) I got a great offer for it, and 3) I bought 17" track wheels and they were super close and depending on wheel-weight placement didn't clear.
I ended up getting the Performance Friction CSL kit (since I have a ZCP car) and I will report back. I will say to skip trying to find a street/track pad and just swap pads. If you daily drive (or even every few days) your M3 don't try to leave street pads on there. You will hate life. My E46 sounds like a dump truck. I'd suggest the PFC pads because they seem to be great and so long as you don't run another brand they aren't supposed to need bedding in when you switch between pads. Or so I've read. |
Appreciate
0
|
09-03-2013, 07:11 AM | #25 | |
Captain
68
Rep 869
Posts |
Quote:
...whew, talk about being re-born! .
__________________
2008 M3 Coupe / DCT // StopTech BBK 380/355 / Pagid RS29 / Motul / Apex Arc-8 / BFG R1S / Ground Control / MS filter / Performance spoiler / BPM tune // Road Atlanta 1:39.70 / VIR Full 2:10.87 / Barber 1:42.20 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-03-2013, 07:20 AM | #26 |
Captain
70
Rep 954
Posts |
I should also add that I bought camber plates straight away too. They aren't super expensive and are pretty easy to install. Figure a good alignment will set you back $200-$300 so why not just throw the plates and there and get the alignment done once. They also will save your tires which is a big savings right there.
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-03-2013, 11:07 AM | #27 |
Captain
556
Rep 629
Posts |
You guys are awesome!
I'm laughing reading all these posts as I am seeing how addictive this is and how much of a slippery slope it is. I know for sure that tracking this car isn't just a phase for me. I'm in it for the long haul which really just leaves me with figuring out how much money I want to spend and when exactly to do it. Luckily, we have three cars and I don't have to drive the m3 all the time, so if I want to start modifying it without worrying about it being my primary daily driver, I can. I'm already noticing my pilot super sports are wearing on the edges way more than the middle. You guys have given me too much to think about. I guess it is lucky that I can really only track the car for about 6 months out of the year here in Chicago, otherwise, I think I would go though a lot more money in tires, brake pads, etc. Right now, my wife and I are in the same beginner run groups, and at the scca events we have been going to, there are two beginner run groups so we don't have the luxury of having one session between runs for the car to cool down. Either way, lots of great info from all of you. Now I just really have to figure out how much my wallet can handle and how frequently I can afford to go to the track. So far, I have only gone to scca events, but I'm wondering if we should start going to hpde instead...
__________________
Gone but not forgotten: '10 X5M, '14 550ix, '17 M3 zcp, '11 aw e90 M3 zcp, ?11 sg e90 M3, '17 X5M, 19 F90 M5
Current: ?13 e92 m3 ESS 585, 22 f95 x5m Comp, Track - '18 manual 991.2 GT3, Wife's family truckster - '20 Volvo XC90 T8 |
Appreciate
0
|
09-03-2013, 12:19 PM | #28 | |
General
21131
Rep 20,742
Posts
Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal
|
Quote:
Track brake pads Camber plates Dedicated wheels and tires (square setup to allow rotation) They are listed in order of importance for me. All the rest of the car is stock. I decided to rather focus on upgrading the part of the car that needs the most improving, the one between the seat and the steering wheel . |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-03-2013, 12:40 PM | #29 | |
Brigadier General
594
Rep 4,488
Posts |
Quote:
My self-imposed mod restriction is that I won't to do things that will compromise daily livability (except MAYBE more track-oriented tires) and aren't reversible. Even though it sounds like you wouldn't have the DD concern, that might be a good rule to abide by anyway if only to limit the amount you spend on mods. For me, that means suspension mods other than camber plates are off the table (most of them eliminate EDC anyway, and I like EDC), as are extreme camber mods that require moving strut towers and serious body modifications. Good luck!
__________________
'16 Cayman GT4 (delivery pics, comparison to E92 M3 write-up)
Gone but not forgotten: '11.75 M3 E92 Le Mans | Black Nov w/ Alum | 6MT (owned 5/2011 - 11/2015) |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-03-2013, 02:02 PM | #30 |
Brigadier General
97
Rep 3,246
Posts |
Another potential Midwest addict? I've been to all the tracks you've mentioned as well as a few others and can tell you that brakes aren't that big of a deal outside of Road America and Autobahn full, which could eat brakes a little too. I have been running the last 4 years in my M3 and have fallen victim to the mod bug pretty hard. Won't reiterate what's already been said, all good advice, just take your time, have fun, and look for groups outside of scca. Here in the Midwest have Lapsincorporated, MVP Tracktime, NWSC, 3 balls racing,Hooked on Driving, and the usual make specific groups (CCA, PCA, Audi club, etc.) I try and run with as many groups as I can as each has a slightly different ideas, rules, and people and as they say...variety is the spice of life. Welcome to the party
__________________
mods: track ready stuff
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-03-2013, 02:48 PM | #31 | |
General
21131
Rep 20,742
Posts
Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal
|
Quote:
As for dedicated track wheels, if one does 4-6 days per season, a dual use tire can do the trick. However, above that, managing tire wear becomes much more complex and this is where the dedicated track wheels come in very handy. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-03-2013, 03:01 PM | #32 |
Brigadier General
594
Rep 4,488
Posts |
^ Fair enough. There are some pretty brake-intensive tracks down here in Texas -- particularly Circuit of the Americas. Plus the temperatures out here can get up to 108 F in the summer, which makes for very hot pavement and therefore very hot wheels and tires and probably explains why so many higher run group cars in the M3's weight class out here have BBKs. The easy pad swap flexibility also appealed to me, though that certainly didn't justify the cost of a BBK on its own.
I'm running about 8 days per year so I'm right on the edge of getting a set of wheels and tires. I just don't have a ton of storage and like I said, not sure I'm willing to deal with the hassle of swapping wheels and such even if it would ultimately save me some cash. Plus then the sky becomes the limit on the types of tires I can run, and NT01s ain't cheap, to say nothing of slicks. That would make an expensive addiction even more expensive.
__________________
'16 Cayman GT4 (delivery pics, comparison to E92 M3 write-up)
Gone but not forgotten: '11.75 M3 E92 Le Mans | Black Nov w/ Alum | 6MT (owned 5/2011 - 11/2015) |
Appreciate
0
|
09-03-2013, 03:30 PM | #33 | |
Captain
70
Rep 954
Posts |
Quote:
NT01's are actually pretty cheap compared to Super Sports or other good summer tire. And then there are race car take-off's if you want cheap slicks (think they are about $150-$200 a piece from JPJP). But you aren't there yet. If you opt to run street tires I'd strongly suggest camber plates. They are about $350 but will help save your very expensive high performance street tires. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-03-2013, 03:55 PM | #34 |
Major
115
Rep 1,470
Posts |
you will not be able to run NT01's with Drivers Edge until you make yellow. If your wife is also tracking the same car, she also has to make yellow unless you are swapping tires between sessions which would be insane. TWS PDS has no specific rule about tires. You will likely run with both groups down here, so something above 120 treadwear is required until you hit yellow.
__________________
Stoptech 380mm/355mm | PFC08 / Pagid RS-29 | Akrapovic EVO - CF tips | Benvo Tune | MS UDP | AA air filter | MCS 2-way with 700/1000lb springs | Solid bushings and adjustable links | RD front swaybar | Apex EC-7 18x10 square 275/35-18 NT01 | Turner Race Studs | GT4 Brake Cooling | GT4 Power Steering Cooling | Alekshop Oil Cooler | Performance Steering Wheel | | CF Spoiler | Varis System 1 Full CF Diffuser | Extended Paddle Shifters | Schroth Quick Fit Pro | Turner Steering Rack Stops | Vorshlag Camber Plates
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-03-2013, 04:03 PM | #35 | ||
Brigadier General
594
Rep 4,488
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
'16 Cayman GT4 (delivery pics, comparison to E92 M3 write-up)
Gone but not forgotten: '11.75 M3 E92 Le Mans | Black Nov w/ Alum | 6MT (owned 5/2011 - 11/2015) |
||
Appreciate
0
|
09-03-2013, 05:02 PM | #36 | |
First Lieutenant
28
Rep 300
Posts |
Quote:
although my dedicated wheels are also stock street tires. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-03-2013, 05:57 PM | #37 | |
General
21131
Rep 20,742
Posts
Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal
|
Quote:
IMO, AD08 and NT05 are a better compromise as street/track tires. But are not great in the wet. If you want to go to slicks, you will most likely need to modify your suspension, and there starts the the modding spiral |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-03-2013, 06:06 PM | #38 |
Brigadier General
594
Rep 4,488
Posts |
^ I corded my front PSSes after 6 track days, though I was in Blue at the time which might have been why they lasted as long as they did. I'm thinking the AD08s will be a better fit for what I'm doing just as you say; I'll just have to see whether the increased noise and decreased comfort on the road is acceptable. If not, I'll go back to PSSes on the road and I guess that will be my incentive to get dedicated track wheels. I'm not too worried about wet performance; I'd take it very slow on a wet track since I've only been in the wet for 1 weekend (MSR Cresson 3.1 back when I was in Green), and on the road I'll just be mindful of that. If I had dedicated wheels I'd switch back to my road PSSes on a wet event if I decide to bring my second set with me.
Good to know NT01s last 8-12 track days though, that's more than I'd have thought and should get me through a year based on the number of track days I'm doing at the moment. Thanks!
__________________
'16 Cayman GT4 (delivery pics, comparison to E92 M3 write-up)
Gone but not forgotten: '11.75 M3 E92 Le Mans | Black Nov w/ Alum | 6MT (owned 5/2011 - 11/2015) |
Appreciate
0
|
09-04-2013, 07:59 PM | #39 | |
Major General
1580
Rep 8,077
Posts
Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston, TX
|
Quote:
__________________
2018 F30 320iX Melbourne Red
2011 E90 M3 Monte Carlo Blue 2004 E46 M3 Imola Red 2000 E36/7 Z3 Steel Blue |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-04-2013, 08:09 PM | #40 |
Major General
1580
Rep 8,077
Posts
Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston, TX
|
A BBK makes a key system of your car more reliable and less maintenance intensive. Over the very long run its cheaper because pads and rotors last much longer.
The tracks in TX are hard on brakes, vaporized a set of PF01s in 4 days on the OE brakes. IMO, the OE brakes can survive track days...barely. But over time as I've improved, I now consider a BBK more of a handling upgrade vs a reliability improvement. If tracking this car is a long term thing, it's better to get the BBK now vs waiting. Bear in mind that resale on used BBKs is usually pretty bad as it should be. IMO a BBK is worth about 50% of retail once the pads touch the rotors. Keep that in mind if you don't plan on keeping the car.
__________________
2018 F30 320iX Melbourne Red
2011 E90 M3 Monte Carlo Blue 2004 E46 M3 Imola Red 2000 E36/7 Z3 Steel Blue |
Appreciate
0
|
09-04-2013, 11:20 PM | #41 |
Second Lieutenant
29
Rep 207
Posts |
OP, you and I are thinking through the same logic. If I remember right, you asked me about upgrades last weekend at Autobahn. I was in the black M3 waiting to get on the track when we spoke.
After reading these posts, I am going to look into pads and fluid since it is all bone stock right now. Did you have any bad brake feel after the track day like brake squeal, vibration when braking, or pinging brakes after mild local driving? Just curious since we ran the same day, same car, if you experienced this like I have.
__________________
2011 E90 M3 Jet Black/Black
ZPP, ZCP, ZTP, ZCW, 6FL, PDC, shades, 6MT |
Appreciate
0
|
09-05-2013, 12:28 AM | #42 | |
Lieutenant
74
Rep 478
Posts |
Quote:
If you don't intend to do the above, Pads, Steel braided lines, good fluid and rotors will do. BBK will come in handy if your traction value increase. IE. Full slick tires or equivalent or you intend to run extended session IE. 1 hour non stop driving. Although steel braided lines don't necessarily reduce braking distance, I do like the concise brake pedal feel with minimum pedal travel as compared to OEM lines where I have to pedal hunt a little for threshold braking. Having BBK does not necessarily mean your braking distance will reduce. You'll need to know how to use them, run them in, etc. When I first had them, I used to get plenty of uneven pad deposits on the rotors because I didn't know how to run them in properly. This resulted in violent vibrations every time I braked. I had to take my wheels off, use 1000grit sandpaper mixed with water and sand down my rotors. When you spend enough track days talking to participants, go to a competent workshop, you'll "hopefully" pick up right info and discard the myths. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-05-2013, 09:06 AM | #43 |
Track? What Track? I was just riding along . . .
46
Rep 694
Posts |
I will buck the trend here. As a couple of beginners, driving north of the Mason-Dixon, I think you will be fine for at least one season with a set of StopTech Street Performance pads, and Motul RBF 600 brake fluid changed in at the beginning of the season.
If this works, you can put the pads and the fluid in at the beginning of your season and just leave it alone, with no need to swap track pads in and out. This is especially important if you don't have a floor jack and brake bleeder yet; you can get a mechanic to do it. If you try it and you're still getting fade, you haven't lost anything. Just put the StopTechs on the shelf for the day when your BMW street pads wear out, and use them as street pads. Swapping pads in and out isn't a bad job, but it still takes an hour (once you've learned how - the first time will take longer) and typically makes me break a sweat, so there are advantages to skipping it if you can. StopTech pads and the Motul are available at good prices on Amazon.com if you don't have a local race shop or mechanic to fix you up. If you are going DIY, there are threads in the wheel&tire forum about floor jacks to buy. I personally use the Bavarian Auto brake bleeder. The DIY forum has decent threads on how to do the pads and fluid. Just be damn careful you don't spill fluid because the res is right above the vac pump, and you can kill the vac pump that way. |
Appreciate
0
|
09-05-2013, 11:53 AM | #44 |
Brigadier General
594
Rep 4,488
Posts |
^ Totally agree. I'd definitely recommend that even casual track people stop using the OEM pads though. Not only do they fade, they left me with seriously bad steering wheel vibration under braking afterward that didn't go away even after several weeks, presumably due to uneven pad deposits. The dealer replaced my pads and rotors as a result, at which point I installed the Street Performance pads. Those pads will still fade on track once you get to be a better driver, but they're far less likely to leave you with steering wheel vibration after the event as long as you give them a proper cooldown lap, and they're almost exactly like OEM on the road with the exception of SLIGHTLY less cold bite. I've been running them on road and track for the last year or so, though at my next event I'll be using race pads for the first time.
And yes, I had the vacuum pump failure due to spilled brake fluid too. Definitely no fun, and rather bone-headed placement design on BMW's part there.
__________________
'16 Cayman GT4 (delivery pics, comparison to E92 M3 write-up)
Gone but not forgotten: '11.75 M3 E92 Le Mans | Black Nov w/ Alum | 6MT (owned 5/2011 - 11/2015) |
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|