Macht Schnell Stage 2 Intake and Pulley INDEPENDENT dyno test

[Black Gold]

Please go here

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=663567

for further discussion on this topic and all data and results!

[MR///M3]

looking forward to this.

[TX335]

Looking forward to the results!

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by MR///M3

looking forward to this.

Originally Posted by TX335

Looking forward to the results!

same here fellas!


BTW, does anyone here local in Houston have a Bavarian Technic tool? I want to have this so we can log ignition timing etc....as part of the dyno

Please PM me if you have one I can borrow for this test

[j2m]

Awesome! Can't wait to see the results

[Black Gold]

The datalogging will include

-IAT
-AFR
-ignition timing

The intake, as far as I can understand, can only make power in one of two ways. A ) decreases IAT over stock. B ) increases air flow

By logging IAT we can determine A. However, the one problem there is that the intakes will only have been compared and tested on the dyno, and not on real world conditions on the street. So that is one possible flaw in the test.

However, i believe that the IAT will be very similar and IF the intake gains power, it will be mainly because of an increase in airflow.

[FormulaMMM]

Subscribed and looking forward to the results!

[flipm3]

Definitely looking forward to seeing some independent results.

I actually thought about doing something similar this spring, but haven't decided what to do with the E90 thus far.

Please make sure your dyno operator has good fans!! Preventing heat soak is absolutely crucial

Best of luck! Keep us posted!

EDIT: I deleted the suggestion about reseting adaptations.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

The intake, as far as I can understand, can only make power in one of two ways. A ) decreases IAT over stock. B ) increases air flow

By logging IAT we can determine A. However, the one problem there is that the intakes will only have been compared and tested on the dyno, and not on real world conditions on the street.

IAT will be the same since the ingestion points are the same. Or at least that is what I thought; the airbox remains unchanged.

If you do not find a BT Tool locally, let me know and I might be able to ship mine out to use. It is a Pro version so no VIN locking issues...

[IMG]

If you want to guarantee some valid results, here's what I recommend.
1. Don't do anything like a 10-minute cool down between runs. That's how a couple of vendors are spiking their dyno results to get better results.
2. Keep the time between runs as constant as possible. We use 90-seconds to 2 minutes between runs.
3. We use 4 runs. You'll find that the car will usually make max power on the 3rd run,and the 4th run will prove it. If the 4th run still makes more power, then make a 5th run.
4. Whatever you do before, do the same thing after.
5. Make sure you have good fans pointed at the driver's air duct and upper radiator.
6. Whatever you do, don't reset adaptations between runs...this will spike the dyno results and will invalidate your tests.

You will have to take off the passenger side plastic valve cover-cover in order to get spark data.

If you can't find a BT tool locally, send me a PM and I'll loan you mine.

[flipm3]

Originally Posted by img

If you want to guarantee some valid results, here's what I recommend.
1. Don't do anything like a 10-minute cool down between runs. That's how a couple of vendors are spiking their dyno results to get better results.
2. Keep the time between runs as constant as possible. We use 90-seconds to 2 minutes between runs.
3. We use 4 runs. You'll find that the car will usually make max power on the 3rd run,and the 4th run will prove it. If the 4th run still makes more power, then make a 5th run.
4. Whatever you do before, do the same thing after.
5. Make sure you have good fans pointed at the driver's air duct and upper radiator.
6. Whatever you do, don't reset adaptations between runs...this will spike the dyno results and will invalidate your tests.

You will have to take off the passenger side plastic valve cover-cover in order to get spark data.

If you can't find a BT tool locally, send me a PM and I'll loan you mine.

This is great information and something I will take note of for my soon to come dyno runs as well.

I stand corrected on my previous suggestion about adaptations. Thanks img!

[IMG]

Originally Posted by flipm3

This is great information and something I will take note of for my soon to come dyno runs as well.

I stand corrected on my previous suggestion about adaptations. Thanks img!

[esquire]

I'm curious how you can explain away before and afters both done at EAS within minutes of one another and 9-10 hp gains made. all variables are controlled for. unless eas's dyno magically knows when you're car has had a MS stage 2 filter installed at which point it flips a switch to manufacture phonied up results.

page 17 or 18 of my build thread (which can be seen by clicking the pic in my sig) shows a before and after at EAS with all other variables controlled for and a gain of 9hp and 5tq.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by scalbert

IAT will be the same since the ingestion points are the same. Or at least that is what I thought; the airbox remains unchanged.

If you do not find a BT Tool locally, let me know and I might be able to ship mine out to use. It is a Pro version so no VIN locking issues...

i totally agree, thats why i mentioned that i doubt i will see any IAT changes between setups. but it is something to monitor since it could affect power, good or bad depending on IAT's.

i may have to take you up on that BT tool offer, thats very generous of you

Originally Posted by img

If you want to guarantee some valid results, here's what I recommend.
1. Don't do anything like a 10-minute cool down between runs. That's how a couple of vendors are spiking their dyno results to get better results.
2. Keep the time between runs as constant as possible. We use 90-seconds to 2 minutes between runs.
3. We use 4 runs. You'll find that the car will usually make max power on the 3rd run,and the 4th run will prove it. If the 4th run still makes more power, then make a 5th run.
4. Whatever you do before, do the same thing after.
5. Make sure you have good fans pointed at the driver's air duct and upper radiator.
6. Whatever you do, don't reset adaptations between runs...this will spike the dyno results and will invalidate your tests.

You will have to take off the passenger side plastic valve cover-cover in order to get spark data.

If you can't find a BT tool locally, send me a PM and I'll loan you mine.

we will not reset any adaptations and probably will do either 3 or 4 runs both before and after.

standardizing time between runs is an excellent idea. the car will be cool for both the before and after dyno, we will log temperatures to make sure that they can be compared in similar conditions.

thanks for the excellent advice!

Originally Posted by esquire

I'm curious how you can explain away before and afters both done at EAS within minutes of one another and 9-10 hp gains made. all variables are controlled for. unless eas's dyno magically knows when you're car has had a MS stage 2 filter installed at which point it flips a switch to manufacture phonied up results.

page 17 or 18 of my build thread (which can be seen by clicking the pic in my sig) shows a before and after at EAS with all other variables controlled for and a gain of 9hp and 5tq.

i specifically mentioned that i am not accusing anyone of foul play, but i am the kind of guy (as a lot of forum members are) who likes to erase all doubt and see it for myself.

we will have a 100 percent controlled experiment and log a tremendous amount of data which is not provided by EAS (not saying they should provide it). i think this test and data will provide good information for the community and will remove all doubt as to whether these mods work or not.

it would be great if I received the same results you did

[Poppin Fresh]

[BMWJ]

The main flaw in seeing what the stuff does is you're not comparing to a stock car. All posted gains advertise against a stock car.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by BMWJ

The main flaw in seeing what the stuff does is you're not comparing to a stock car. All posted gains advertise against a stock car.

Whats the difference? They advertise gains whether other parts have been upgraded or not.

Many people who install parts like this will eventualy have a very similar combination of parts to the test car. It will be pretty close to a FBO car at at this point.

We know the x pipe / turner pipe combinations make power, and pretty sure that most tunes make some power. Now we can find out of the intake / pulley combo is worthwhile.

A before and after still provides a direct comparison of the parts vs their stock counterparts.

[BMWJ]

Yes and no... I like what you're doing and think it's a valuable test. However the gains you get, if any at all, will be a much different number than if you did the same test on a stock car. When you combine numerous mods they work together so for example if you gain 5hp from the intake, it doesn't mean some one without an x-pipe will gain 5hp from the intake. The problem is if you really want to isolate the gains from this intake alone you can mess with all the other parts.

[armyav8tor]

Should have waited till you had the data before posting. Now we have to sit and wait for the results. Also, what filter are you running now? I would suggest you clean it before doing the pulls to level the playing field. My MS filter only had 10k miles on it and putting in a new AA green filter, my butt dyno felt the difference.

[Sales@Evolve]

Finally... someone who understands the dynamics behind actual testing.

IMG's input into this is also excellent and should be followed.

You can measure airflow calculations through BT also.

Basically, you measure inlet, coolant inlet, coolant outlet, oil and exhaust gas temperatures.

You make sure they are all the same before every run is made.

Now, we know these wheel HP figures are also subject to tyre temperatures (pressure increased with temperature = more power). To overcome this just keep the wheels spinning on the dyno while you get all of the temperatures down.

Also, given that you are putting a NEW intake on, the materials will all be at room temperature whilst as you rock into the dyno cell your stock intake will have an element of heat inside it.
So, before you do the initial test, remove stock intake, let is all cool down and put some compressed air inside the plenum. Give the stock intake the best chance it can get.
Of course do the same for the intake.

Measure also the time taken for each of the dyno runs. Some runs can be really quick and need to be invalidated. These are the runs which are usually the highest.

So only display the dyno runs which are all within a very tight tolerance to each other in terms of time taken.

Hopefully when people read about such a test it will show them how much actually needs to be monitored to get true comparable results.

[Sales@Evolve]

Originally Posted by BMWJ

Yes and no... I like what you're doing and think it's a valuable test. However the gains you get, if any at all, will be a much different number than if you did the same test on a stock car. When you combine numerous mods they work together so for example if you gain 5hp from the intake, it doesn't mean some one without an x-pipe will gain 5hp from the intake. The problem is if you really want to isolate the gains from this intake alone you can mess with all the other parts.

I wouldn't worry about that too much.

There are plenty of gains shown by EAS on a car with an X Pipe also.

We used to do an intake a long time ago and we used the get very similar gains on both X Pipe and non X Pipe cars.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by BMWJ

Yes and no... I like what you're doing and think it's a valuable test. However the gains you get, if any at all, will be a much different number than if you did the same test on a stock car. When you combine numerous mods they work together so for example if you gain 5hp from the intake, it doesn't mean some one without an x-pipe will gain 5hp from the intake. The problem is if you really want to isolate the gains from this intake alone you can mess with all the other parts.

i see what you mean, but im not convinced it will result in a huge difference.

either way, we shall see

Originally Posted by armyav8tor

Should have waited till you had the data before posting. Now we have to sit and wait for the results. Also, what filter are you running now? I would suggest you clean it before doing the pulls to level the playing field. My MS filter only had 10k miles on it and putting in a new AA green filter, my butt dyno felt the difference.

sorry to disappoint you

i started the thread now because I am A ) looking for advice on what data to log so i can make it the best test possible and B ) looking for a BT tool to use

I am running the AA green filter as stated in the OP. I may try to clean it, but it only has 2k miles on it.