MS Stage 2 Intake and MS Pulley Independent Dyno Results and Data Logs

[Black Gold]

Hey guys, here is the data from the dyno day. My thoughts are that the combination definitely makes power, and to my surprise, it is steady all the way from early RPMs. The car definitely feels good, and the increase in sound even over the AA green filter (which increased the sound of the intake over stock) is very noticeable. It sounds awesome.

The next step will be to find a stock filter and dyno the intake setups to see what happens. I plan to do this sometime in the next month or two. We didnt do it this day because we didnt have a lot of time, and I didnt have an OEM filter.

Its a tough call to tell what the gains are from, but we are thinking the majority are coming from the pulley.

BIG THANKS to my main man Richard at M-world for helping me out and making this possible. Also big ups to Robert for lending us the BT tool and doing the data analysis and plotting the graphs.

It took a lot of people and help to make it happen, but I hope this will provide very useful to the community to have an independent, 100000 percent biased free dyno test of these products.

Credit goes to EAS for creating a product that does produce power as advertised.

Car and Modifications:

Control Baseline:

• 2009 BMW M3
• Turner Test Pipe
• Primary CAT Delete
• AA Green Filter
• Evolve ECU Tune for CAT Delete
• OEM X-Pipe and Secondary CAT intact
• Stock Exhaust
• 6MT
• 93 Octane

Further Modifications:

• Macht Schnell Underdrive Pulley
• Macht Schnell Stage-2 Intake

Conditions:

Control Baseline:

• Temparature:: 83.01 degrees F
• Atmospheric pressure: 29.90 inHg
• Humidity: 49%
• Density Altitude: 1911 Ft.
• SAE Correction: 1.002
• STD Correction: 1.030
• Uncorrected: 1.000

Further Modification:

• Temparature:: 80.14 degrees F
• Atmospheric pressure: 29.87 inHg
• Humidity: 56%
• Density Altitude: 1776 Ft.
• SAE Correction: 1.001
• STD Correction: 1.029
• Uncorrected: 1.000

Results:

Control Baseline:

• SAE Corrected: 342whp @ 7740 RPM, 263wtq @ 3780 RPM
• STD Corrected: 350whp, 269wtq
• Uncorrected: 341whp, 262wtq

Further Modifications:

• SAE Corrected: 359whp @ 8020 RPM, 273wtq @ 3820 RPM
• STD Corrected: 367whp, 279wtq
• Uncorrected: 359whp, 272wtq

Dyno Database:

Control Baseline:

• Dyno files are available from the links below.
• SAE
  Corrected
• STD
  Corrected
• Uncorrected

Further Modifications:

• Dyno files are available from the links below.
• SAE
  Corrected
• STD
  Corrected
• Uncorrected

Individual Dyno Results:

The legend below has the following meaning:

• Dyno Run: Dyno run file
• Timestamp
• Temp(F) = Temperature (Farenheit)
• RelH = Relative Humidity
• Pressure(Hg) = Barometric Pressure
• DA(ft) = Density Altitude
• WHP(unc) = Uncorrected wheel horsepower
• WTQ(unc) = Uncorrected wheel torque
• WHP(SAEd) = SAE Corrected Horsepower using Dynojet weather station.
• WTQ(SAEd) = SAE Corrected Torque using Dynojet weather station.

Control Baseline:



Further Modifications:


* Entry used for the Dyno Database

Graphs:

Control Baseline:

SAE Correction:





STD Correction:




Uncorrected:

Further Modifications:

SAE Correction showing peak gains:




SAE Correction showing all runs:


SAE Correction showing peak gains with timing and AFR data:


SAE Correction showing peak gains with timing and AFR for all
runs. Shows timing differences are across the board in all runs, not
just peak runs.


SAE Correction showing peak gains with timing and AFR for all
runs with trendline. Shows timing differences are across the board in
all runs, not just peak runs. Trendline shows 2-degree difference
between before/after modifications.


STD Correction:




STD Correction showing all runs:


Uncorrected:

Delta Gains for Horsepower and
Torque

[Sean@PYSpeed.com]

[scalbert]

Great information and once agin, thanks for doing this. I am curious to see timing curves from other dynos as there is noticeable KR occurring. I am curious if this is normal on this engine or if there is something else underlying.

[flipm3]

That is an incredible amount of data and information! Thank you for sharing. I am sure EAS/Macht Schnell will be getting a lot o phone calls in the next few weeks, haha.

If you don't me asking, could you share how your whole dyno procedure went?
Did you wait for IAT's to stabilize based of the BavTech?
What kind of cooling?

I am plan on doing dynos for both my E46 and E90 M3 and I want to make sure things are as accurate and precise as possible. Thanks!

[rzm3]

What are the oil and water temps for runs 3 and 7?

[Black Gold]

I would like to add that the highest HP run from the "after" file appears to be a bit of an outlier. It is about 7 whp higher than the other runs which are all relatively consistent.

However, below 8k RPM the graph shows that the power curves from all three are very similar. Its just ABOVE 8k that run number 7 makes more power than the rest.

So, the peak gains were closer to 12whp using the most consistent runs from both before and after. Still good results.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by scalbert

Great information and once agin, thanks for doing this. I am curious to see timing curves from other dynos as there is noticeable KR occurring. I am curious if this is normal on this engine or if there is something else underlying.

not sure what KR stands for, but I am assuming you are talking about the timing drops, specifically the one at 5500 RPM.

interesting how on the after dyno, the timing drop does not seem to affect power nearly as negatively as it does on the baseline runs....

Originally Posted by flipm3

That is an incredible amount of data and information! Thank you for sharing. I am sure EAS/Macht Schnell will be getting a lot o phone calls in the next few weeks, haha.

If you don't me asking, could you share how your whole dyno procedure went?
Did you wait for IAT's to stabilize based of the BavTech?
What kind of cooling?

I am plan on doing dynos for both my E46 and E90 M3 and I want to make sure things are as accurate and precise as possible. Thanks!

the dyno went really well, Richard did a great job helping set it up.

We used one fan blowing directly into the lower grill opening.

We used a minute 45 to 2 minutes between runs.

We did make sure the temperatures were very similar. BT cannot read IAT as far as I know, but we did have engine temp data and the dyno operator made sure that they were similar. Runs 8 and 9 on the after dyno were MOST likely the closest in temp to the baseline runs.

sounds good man, definitely do it. especially the e46 with the new airbox adn tune.

Originally Posted by rldzhao

What are the oil and water temps for runs 3 and 7?

i will try to find this info, im not sure if it was recorded or not?

[flipm3]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

the dyno went really well, Richard did a great job helping set it up.

We used one fan blowing directly into the lower grill opening.

We used a minute 45 to 2 minutes between runs.

We did make sure the temperatures were very similar. BT cannot read IAT as far as I know, but we did have engine temp data and the dyno operator made sure that they were similar. Runs 8 and 9 on the after dyno were MOST likely the closest in temp to the baseline runs.

sounds good man, definitely do it. especially the e46 with the new airbox adn tune.

Thanks for clarifying. I'll definitely do what I can to try a very similar protocol. I hope my dyno operator has a fan to direct into the air intake duct as well. Last time I was there, we only used a large 3ft diameter fan directed towards the front of the car.

I'm going to see if I can monitor some of those parameters using INPA.

Thanks again!

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

not sure what KR stands for, but I am assuming you are talking about the timing drops, specifically the one at 5500 RPM.

interesting how on the after dyno, the timing drop does not seem to affect power nearly as negatively as it does on the baseline runs....

BT cannot read IAT as far as I know

KR = Knock Retard so you were point on the assumption.

Since this is a single cylinder measurement I am still curious to see other plots with timing included. This is the first I have sen on this engine and it is interesting. It seems there is quite a bit advance down low; more than I would expect. I would also expect the 2 degree drops to amount to more of a torque drop than I see.

As to the BT reading IAT, it does. But finding the correct register is often difficult. I believe the S65 is speed density so IAT is required.

[Singletrack]

This is great data, and some of it is presented in a way I have not previously seen! Very cool and a tremendous contribution to the community. Thank you and all the other contributors who may or not be posting here! : )

Specifically - "SAE Correction showing peak gains with timing and AFR data" - this is awesome. Great to see this on one graph! I was doing this manually between graphs then got down and said, "shit, here it is!". Perfect.

Also - the delta gain graphs are awesome. Would love to see one for AFR also.

Would also like to see IAT as others have mentioned.

My observations:

-Awesome how much the timing advanced after the modifications; but would be nice to see IAT to get a more complete picture.

-To answer "scalbert's" question, my understanding is that the programing is always trying to hit the target and pushing the limit, so the behavior seems normal to this internet tuner ; ) Hoping an expert will set me straight if I'm off-base.

-Interesting that after the modifications, the engine appears to run leaner up top - 7400RPM+. I wonder if it is still adjusting fuel trims? Because, the Evolve tune, I believe, will still be trying to hit the same targets. Seems hard to believe that the car would run out of fuel, but I guess it is possible? Anyway to see IDC (injector duty cycle) with the BT?

-I hope Sal, Tom, etc. chime in and give their thoughts as well : )

Question:

Kenny, why do you think most of the gains are related to the pulley? Just curious, not saying they aren't...also, I have the original US airbox, which I think you do as well. I have a brand new OEM filter with the charcoal layer, and an AA modified Euro without the charcoal. If you want them for testing, they are all yours just PM me an address.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by Singletrack

To answer "scalbert's" question, my understanding is that the programing is always trying to hit the target and pushing the limit, so the behavior seems normal to this internet tuner ; ) Hoping an expert will set me straight if I'm off-base.

Hitting an ignitiong advance target and not reaching it is a sign of an issue. Typically, a curve will be without sudden drops as that is an indication of a knock event. As always, tuning should side on caution and reactionary methods not be employed for long term durability.

As an engine increases speed, so should ignition advance simply due to the mechanics of the combustion. This curve, is interesting and I would like to see a stock curve as well.

[Singletrack]

Originally Posted by scalbert

Hitting an ignitiong advance target and not reaching it is a sign of an issue. Typically, a curve will be without sudden drops as that is an indication of a knock event. As always, tuning should side on caution and reactionary methods not be employed for long term durability.

As an engine increases speed, so should ignition advance simply due to the mechanics of the combustion. This curve, is interesting and I would like to see a stock curve as well.

This is the way the stock programing works also. : ) The car never "settles" on a timing value. If it did, it could never again advance timing for higher quality fuel, or denser air, etc. This engine monitors knock per cylinder also, at the spark plug, so it would be interesting to see if the BT can show knock events per cylinder and/or which cylinder caused the correction. Still, I don't know that you will really see any difference in the behavior vs. stock, just different targets being hit. As you point out, this increased timing will have an impact on longevity, but that is the case with any increase in power period.

The only relevant thing that should be different with the Evolve tune, is that the timing targets could be higher in certain areas. But they could tell you specifically, if they so chose : ) Shiv from Vishnu has confirmed that you can increase stock timing targets on 93 octane and it will add power with no other changes. So BMW is holding it back in certain places if you have good fuel.

[blackbeast535]

Excellent Work!

[Sales@Evolve]

One of the best threads for a long time.

Will raise lots of questions no doubt.

Please tell me IAT was measured! This was the single most important factor in all of this. No assumptions can be made based on ambient temperature.

The timing can advance for numerous reasons and one of the most major factors is due to lower temperatures inside the plenum.

What is clear (to me atleast because I test timing) is that the majority of the power increase is from timing advance.

Will study the graphs in more detail and give an analysis.

[Sales@Evolve]

Originally Posted by scalbert

Hitting an ignitiong advance target and not reaching it is a sign of an issue. Typically, a curve will be without sudden drops as that is an indication of a knock event. As always, tuning should side on caution and reactionary methods not be employed for long term durability.

As an engine increases speed, so should ignition advance simply due to the mechanics of the combustion. This curve, is interesting and I would like to see a stock curve as well.

All logged ignition curves even on the best fuel will show sudden drops in ignition timing even with a stock file.

Here is the stock ignition curve and AFR targets for full load:



As you can see the stock targets are quite radical to start with.

[Sales@Evolve]

Originally Posted by Singletrack

The only relevant thing that should be different with the Evolve tune, is that the timing targets could be higher in certain areas. But they could tell you specifically, if they so chose : ) Shiv from Vishnu has confirmed that you can increase stock timing targets on 93 octane and it will add power with no other changes. So BMW is holding it back in certain places if you have good fuel.

We use stock ignition targets on our latest release and this has been done for quite a long time now.

Raising the ignition targets only gets you a few HP on the dyno. Once the car is driven on the road and ideal conditions are achieved the setup will try and achieve the higher targets set. This will cause knock and as a result ignition timing retard will be stored in long term adaptions per cylinder giving you a less powerful than stock setup.

Even on 93 octane the stock ignition targets are hardly met so raising it is quite a futile exercise (unless you want to show some power on the dyno that is straight after a reflash).

On 95 etc you will achieve the very close to optimal ignition targets.

Now, someone of you may question the very high ignition timing targets through the lower to high midrange. This is due to the radical cam overlap used in this area. At the higher rpm's the cam overlap is more conventional and hence why the targets come back down to more normal levels even if they are still quite radical for a stock car.

[Singletrack]

Sal - Thanks so much for sharing this detail, I can't tell you how much I appreciate it! We need to aggregate it into a sticky on how the mss60 DME works...eventually anyway : )

[Sales@Evolve]

Thanks!

Look forward to seeing the tests on individual components.

EAS has sent us an intake kit so we will also be doing a comparison with detailed information.

We will also be testing our own pulley designs very shortly too.

The great thing here is that finally someone has stepped up and almost done pretty much the best testing we have ever seen on this forum.

Well done Kenny!

[flipm3]

Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve

Thanks!

Look forward to seeing the tests on individual components.

EAS has sent us an intake kit so we will also be doing a comparison with detailed information.

We will also be testing our own pulley designs very shortly too.

The great thing here is that finally someone has stepped up and almost done pretty much the best testing we have ever seen on this forum.

Well done Kenny!

Nice! I'm looking forward to see how your results compared to KennyPowers'

He really did a great job, along with everyone who helped him, in collecting data. I love seeing very informative threads like this.

Speaking of pulleys.......Looks like I'll be contacting you again this week

[ReubenLemley]

I can't tell you how much I appreciate it!

[Rekrul]

Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve

One of the best threads for a long time.

Will raise lots of questions no doubt.

Please tell me IAT was measured! This was the single most important factor in all of this. No assumptions can be made based on ambient temperature.

The timing can advance for numerous reasons and one of the most major factors is due to lower temperatures inside the plenum.

What is clear (to me atleast because I test timing) is that the majority of the power increase is from timing advance.

Will study the graphs in more detail and give an analysis.

So you think it is running lean mainly due to the intake then? I mean I'm not at all knowledgeable in this realm. Would things like cat deletes and pulleys, make the car run leaner as well?

P.s. Big thanks to Kenny! You are a good man for doing such a thing.

[Sales@Evolve]

It's running very slightly leaner but is not lean.
This could be due to many factors like inlet temperature and running more timing.
The fact that IAT has been missed out here really means the test needs to be done again for definitive results.
The dme is more than capable of achieving the targets even with a decatted exhaust so really this is showing something changed with respect to temperature to make it run slightly leaner at the higher rpm's.

A pulley certainly cannot cause enough change to create a leaner burn nor can it cause more ignition advance to be achieved.