Enhanced Premium Sound upgrade

[Bye Bye GTI]

HI Technic

A few questions about the remote turn on wire that you talked about in one of your pics...

Is this the same wire that is at the back of the car in the wiring harness? How come you took it from the front of the car?

Or did you find the connection at the back of the silver box that is in your photo.

I have a 135 and am having some issues with an aftermarket piece turning on using signal sensing so your detective work may be the solution.

[Technic]

There is no OEM remote wire in the OEM amp connector in the Premium Audio system, and I think that there is none in any Logic7 amp connector as well. The OEM amp turns on thru fiber optic message.

There is a remote turn on wire in the base/analog OEM amp connector.

That's the reason I have to make the connection from the back of the iDrive CCC unit "Antenna Switching" signal (remote turn on for the radio antenna amplifier, pin 13). This my the second time with BMW systems that the signal sensing feature of aftermarket devices just cannot work well with the OEM HU.

I would guess that your 135i system is the Logic7 if you cannot see a single black wire in your OEM amp connector.

Originally Posted by trebat

HI Technic

A few questions about the remote turn on wire that you talked about in one of your pics...

Is this the same wire that is at the back of the car in the wiring harness? How come you took it from the front of the car?

Or did you find the connection at the back of the silver box that is in your photo.

I have a 135 and am having some issues with an aftermarket piece turning on using signal sensing so your detective work may be the solution.

[Bye Bye GTI]

Ok - thanks - that fits better into my understanding now.

My car does not have logic 7 and I had thought that there was a remote turn on in the trunk so that is what confused me. Learned something new about the M3 systems and the logic 7 today. Thanks.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by trebat

Ok - thanks - that fits better into my understanding now.

My car does not have logic 7 and I had thought that there was a remote turn on in the trunk so that is what confused me. Learned something new about the M3 systems and the logic 7 today. Thanks.

There is a remote turn on in your OEM amp connector... I don't know the pin number, though.

[Gemcoska]

What ended up being your final cost for this install?

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Gemcoska

What ended up being your final cost for this install?

Approximately:

- $300 for the Cleansweep modules (summing and de-EQ)
- $300 for the PDX 4.100
- $350 for the PDX 4.150
- $200 for the (2) SWS-8
- $420 for the DQXS
- $170 for the Molex connectors, 4 and 8 gauge power/ground cables, 16 gauge speaker wires, distribution block, OEM connector for battery distribution block, OEM left trunk liner for CD Changer, MDF plank for amps and DQXS base.

[Gemcoska]

Hey Technic,

Talk to me a little bit about the DQXS in elementary terms. So after the signals go through the summing CL-SSI, and is deprocessed by the CL441DSP, you now have a full range clean "flat" signal. What would happened if you fed that directly into the amplifiers?

Does the DQXS serve as the multipurpose 8 channel crossover and 130 band equalizer and a signal processor (kinda like adding dolby digital or something)?

Also, from the looks of the DQXS, there isn't 130 sliders for manual equalizer adjustments. What am I missing?

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by Gemcoska

Also, from the looks of the DQXS, there isn't 130 sliders for manual equalizer adjustments. What am I missing?

Hence the term digital signal processor. I doesn't have manual analog sliders. It is a digital signal processor with a graphical user interface to make adjustment. If you look closely at the pictures you'll see the LCD display on the top of the unit.

You could feed the output of the JL Cleansweep directly into aftermarket amps but you'll need a crossover somewhere to filter the bass out of the mids and the high frequencies out of the sub. The crossover can be in the amp or stand alone. In this case, the DQXS acts as the crossover while providing EQ capability all in one unit.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Gemcoska

Hey Technic,

Talk to me a little bit about the DQXS in elementary terms. So after the signals go through the summing CL-SSI, and is deprocessed by the CL441DSP, you now have a full range clean "flat" signal. 1) What would happened if you fed that directly into the amplifiers?

Does the DQXS serve as the multipurpose 8 channel crossover and 130 band equalizer and a signal processor (kinda like adding dolby digital or something)?

Also, from the looks of the DQXS, 2) there isn't 130 sliders for manual equalizer adjustments. What am I missing?

1) You will have a full range, flat signal as an input to your amps, that's all. That's what it is normally the goal in car audio as an input signal, until you start actually driving and road noise takes over and you need to adjust a little that flat signal to increase or attenuate certain frequencies for better response to you.

According to the Cleansweep features, mode of operation and processing, you still will be able to use the tone adjustments after calibration (bass, treble) and not lose the calibration. So you can at least adjust a little that flat signal with your iDrive tone adjustments without the need of an extra EQ like I'm using. I tried that briefly and it works without changing the calibration; I have not tried using the OEM EQ for adjustments instead of the DQXS, though.

2) Because the DQXS is a DSP processor there is no need for analog sliders or knobs, just a LED display for adjustments as HIS4 stated.

In my set up, all OEM tone adjustments and EQ bands are set to flat and the Surround mode is set to Stereo, and then I let the DQXS do the processing/EQ instead of using the iDrive tone adjustments. That way the calibration is always independent from the actual EQ going into the amps, so it can handle better whatever OEM speed volume compensation and EQ that still is present in the OEM signal.

What also happens with the OEM amp outputs in the Premium Audio (as well as in the Logic7 amp) is that it also changes its EQ curve and volume based on speed. So if you adjust the tone controls the changes could be major to overcome whatever setting these features based their compensation upon. Those automatic OEM adjustments cannot be disabled. So by leaving all OEM tone adjustments, EQ and surround settings normal/flat I'm trying to force those speed compensation changes to the bare minimum, so the Cleansweep can do a better job in calibrating the OEM signal regardless of the vehicle speed.

You should read the Cleansweep manual for these details about things that can affect calibration and how to minimize them.

There are other processing DSP in the market in addition to the Cleansweep with practically the same purpose: flatten and de-EQ OEM output signals. Check the 3SIXTY.2, the Alpine PXE-H650 and the Audison BitOne.

[Gemcoska]

Very informative, looks like my next step is the cleansweep and a 4 ch amp, then last would be the crossover/eq.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Gemcoska

Very informative, looks like my next step is the cleansweep and a 4 ch amp, then last would be the crossover/eq.

All the Premium OEM 4" drivers (component and coaxials) are 4 ohms, so they are easily matched to aftermarket amps that can accept loads of up to 2 ohms per channel; only the OEM subs are 7 ohms. At least you will need 6 channels (1 channel for center, 2 channels each for front and rear, 1 channel for subs) of amplification to drive all the speakers in the Premium Audio; the OEM amp has 9 channels of amplification.

You can do with just 5 channels if you either forgo using the center channel or use the CS-256 CenterStage module to drive the center channel off the front channels.

[KonigsTiger]

Not too shabby of a job, must sound really well!!!!

[Gemcoska]

So.. 1 2-channel amp for the sub, 1 4-channel 2 ohm amp for the front and back L/R's, and the centerstage module for the front center channel.

Does the centerstage just combine FL and FR channels? Is there an amp that has a center channel output? i.e. FC, FR, FL, BR, & BL

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Gemcoska

So.. 1 2-channel amp for the sub, 1 4-channel 2 ohm amp for the front and back L/R's, and the centerstage module for the front center channel.

Does the centerstage just combine FL and FR channels? Is there an amp that has a center channel output? i.e. FC, FR, FL, BR, & BL

That's pretty much my set up, but I use 7 channels out of 8 (two 4-channel amps with one running in 3-way mode).

The CenterStage combine the FL and FR channels, yes. The only amps that I found with a dedicated center channel were for in-car video (for Dolby Digital decoding for DVD playback in the car). So the best compromise was this CenterStage module, high impedance (so it does not load too much the front speakers output and still provides more than acceptable presence) and adjustable in volume and in frequency cutoff.

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by Technic

That's pretty much my set up, but I use 7 channels out of 8 (two 4-channel amps with one running in 3-way mode).

The CenterStage combine the FL and FR channels, yes. The only amps that I found with a dedicated center channel were for in-car video (for Dolby Digital decoding for DVD playback in the car). So the best compromise was this CenterStage module, high impedance (so it does not load too much the front speakers output and still provides more than acceptable presence) and adjustable in volume and in frequency cutoff.

Nice, I bet it sounds great!!

[PunjabiM3]

Technic,
I believe you listed the stock subs as 7 ohm. Due to this, I am guessing we are not able to upgrade to the SWS8 subs correct? I have a class D 500w RMS sub sitting at home along with wiring. I am happy with the overall sound of the enhanced audio, but do wish there was some more bass coming out of the subs. I went through the DIY on e90post regarding install of the SWS8, but can the same thing can be done on the M3 since the sound system is different. Would appreciate some pointers and info on possibly upgrading the subs with or without aftermarket amp...

[Technic]

Originally Posted by PunjabiM3

Technic,
I believe you listed the stock subs as 7 ohm. Due to this, I am guessing we are not able to upgrade to the SWS8 subs correct? I have a class D 500w RMS sub sitting at home along with wiring. I am happy with the overall sound of the enhanced audio, but do wish there was some more bass coming out of the subs. I went through the DIY on e90post regarding install of the SWS8, but can the same thing can be done on the M3 since the sound system is different. Would appreciate some pointers and info on possibly upgrading the subs with or without aftermarket amp...

The issue is that the SWS-8 are not offered in 7 ohms, only in 4- and a 2-ohms versions. If you just swap the OEM subs with the 4-ohms SWS-8 it will sound much better than the OEM's just powered by the OEM amp, however as soon as you start increasing the volume or the bass becomes heavy and deep the OEM amp will overheat, start popping and then go in to protection.

I tried that just to see how much the OEM amp can hold and it does pretty good up to a certain volume, but the fact is that it will be damaged in the long run. And it is a $1000 part to replace...

To run a separate aftermarket amp to just the SWS-8s you will need either an amp with high level inputs or a high power active or passive LOC (OEM subs power exceeds 100W max at 7 ohms). Check this discussion for options: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197735

[Technic]

Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico

Nice, I bet it sounds great!!

It really does...

[Technic]

... about the hiss in my system, it was a bad PDX 4.100.

The sucker only generated hiss if the four channels were loaded; there was no noise if only two channels were loaded. I got a new one and now the upgrade is finally done right.

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by Technic

... about the hiss in my system, it was a bad PDX 4.100.

The sucker only generated hiss if the four channels were loaded; there was no noise if only two channels were loaded. I got a new one and now the upgrade is finally done right.

Simple solution and would have never guessed it.

[Technic]

This is the installation and owner's manual of the new Audison BitOne processor, which I'm planning to get to compare with my current set up; this unit can replace all the three components that I'm using to interface the Premium OEM amp to the PDX amps (summing device, Cleansweep, and DQXS) and perform more features than all the devices combined. The question now is if this processor can be set to use the OEM volume control instead of its Master Volume...

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by Technic

This is the installation and owner's manual of the new Audison BitOne processor, which I'm planning to get to compare with my current set up; this unit can replace all the three components that I'm using to interface the Premium OEM amp to the PDX amps (summing device, Cleansweep, and DQXS) and perform more features than all the devices combined. The question now is if this processor can be set to use the OEM volume control instead of its Master Volume...

You do not have to use it's master volume unless you're using one of the digital inputs. Recent news on the BitOne is the Audison has released a recall on the units. According to another forum I frequent, a lot of the show cars at CES (who were members of the forum) were using it and they had terrible noise issues. The issue is currently being looked at by Audison.

So you might want to wait it out a little just to see where this goes before jumping into that. I also wanted to get a BitOne but I'm waiting to see how this all plays out first. Could be just one of those early release bugs but you never know.