Anyone running NGK 97506?

[lonatic]

Anyone with a supercharger running NGK 97506 2 Step colder plugs? I searched the forums didn't find much. I know of one member running them without issues curious if anyone else out there is running them without issues.

[deansbimmer]

Remember that the S65 is unique with its ionic knock control built into the coils and specified for use with LKR8AP plugs. Changing plugs is not common in this platform and would risk the knock control not reacting properly.

[gnx]

G Power sells these on through it's site:

https://www.g-power.com/en/configura...ugs-m3-e9x-b82

[CamasM3e93]

Originally Posted by lonatic

Anyone with a supercharger running NGK 97506 2 Step colder plugs? I searched the forums didn't find much. I know of one member running them without issues curious if anyone else out there is running them without issues.

I think this is the more commonly used non-oem plug:

NGK 93253 R2556G-9

It’s an iridium plug and at least some of us are using them on supercharger kits to extend plug life (30-40k miles versus 10k miles).

[RocketyMan]

Originally Posted by CamasM3e93

I think this is the more commonly used non-oem plug:

NGK 93253 R2556G-9

It’s an iridium plug and at least some of us are using them on supercharger kits to extend plug life (30-40k miles versus 10k miles).

Do you know for a fact that it works with the ion-sensing without any hiccups?

I would be super-interested in this, but I've been burned before using other iridium plugs. -_-

[DrFerry]

This same topic is discussed in these threads. Search the forums or threads below by keyword = R2556B-9 or R2556G-9
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1763451
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1070943
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1802212

[RocketyMan]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

This same topic is discussed in these threads. Search the forums or threads below by keyword = R2556B-9 or R2556G-9
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1763451
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1070943
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1802212

Hmm...
Reading your suggestions and searching the forums didn't yield much of the answer I was looking for I guess (or I'm not very good at it).

There was a post, from your above, someone asked/mentioned whether the Harrop supercharger mod didn't use the ion-sensing. "I guess they don't use the ionic knock sensing?" This makes me think that perhaps this feature is modified or even turned off (kinda doubt it turned off) within the Harrop tune...?

I couldn't find much detail here to confirm if a tune was made directly for this in the installation pdf:
https://www.harrop.com.au/shop/tvs1740-bmw-e9x-m3

I know the OP originally intended the question to be for supercharger configurations (which imply a tune of some sort), but what about using this iridium spark plug with stock-tune, NA? Would the ion-sensing work appropriately enough using the iridium race plug?

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by RocketyMan

Hmm...
Reading your suggestions and searching the forums didn't yield much of the answer I was looking for I guess (or I'm not very good at it). There was a post, from your above, someone asked/mentioned whether the Harrop supercharger mod didn't use the ion-sensing. "I guess they don't use the ionic knock sensing?" This makes me think that perhaps this feature is modified or even turned off (kinda doubt it turned off) within the Harrop tune...?

I couldn't find much detail here to confirm if a tune was made directly for this in the installation pdf:
https://www.harrop.com.au/shop/tvs1740-bmw-e9x-m3

I know the OP originally intended the question to be for supercharger configurations (which imply a tune of some sort), but what about using this iridium spark plug with stock-tune, NA? Would the ion-sensing work appropriately enough using the iridium race plug?

RocketyMan - The stock tune will not work with these NGK Racing iridium cooler spark plugs. These NGK Racing plugs will only work in boosted applications, because with forced induction (boosted) DME software 'tunes', the OEM misfire routine has been disabled by the tune(r). The ionic knock sensing must still be working in tuned and boosted applications, because I personally ran them successfully for over 50K miles with my Harrop blower tune (and so have others with boosted tuned cars - especially G-Power blower equipped cars). These same NGK Racing 1-step cooler plugs are also supplied with the new G-Power blower kits and the VF Engineering blower kits.
.
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=148
From the post above: "I was told the only reason these NGK Iridium Racing plugs work so well in boosted applications is because in boosted applications the misfire sensing routine has been 'coded out' with (by) the supercharger tune(r). Not that these plugs ever misfired when I was running them."
.
As far as I understand the topic(s): The ionic knock sensing routine is not the same subroutine as the misfire sensing routine. More simply put: the stock tune would "see" boost as a misfire. Hence, tuner(s) code such functionality out to allow boost to be run with the S65 DME. Hope this helps:

PS:
Over the years, this exact topic of alternative spark plugs has caused serious debate on the forums. Happy searching.
PPS:
Not all NGK iridium plugs are the same as NGK Racing iridium plugs.

[RocketyMan]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

RocketyMan - The stock tune will not work with these NGK Racing iridium cooler spark plugs. These NGK Racing plugs will only work in boosted applications, because with forced induction (boosted) DME software 'tunes', the OEM misfire routine has been disabled by the tune(r). The ionic knock sensing must still be working in tuned and boosted applications, because I personally ran them successfully for over 50K miles with my Harrop blower tune (and so have others with boosted tuned cars - especially G-Power blower equipped cars). These same NGK Racing 1-step cooler plugs are also supplied with the new G-Power blower kits and the VF Engineering blower kits.
.
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=148
From the post above: "I was told the only reason these NGK Iridium Racing plugs work so well in boosted applications is because in boosted applications the misfire sensing routine has been 'coded out' with (by) the supercharger tune(r). Not that these plugs ever misfired when I was running them."
.
As far as I understand the topic(s): The ionic knock sensing routine is not the same subroutine as the misfire sensing routine. More simply put: the stock tune would "see" boost as a misfire. Hence, tuner(s) code such functionality out to allow boost to be run with the S65 DME. Hope this helps:

PS:
Over the years, this exact topic of alternative spark plugs has caused serious debate on the forums. Happy searching.
PPS:
Not all NGK iridium plugs are the same as NGK Racing iridium plugs.

Ahhh HAH!

Okay. That is explanation enough, and now it makes sense!!

You're clearly a better searcher than me! lol

[BSM n54iS]

Just to add these plugs are favorites for stage 2 n54's that are highly boosted and s55's as well but then again you have to gap them to your specific preferences. Not sure how that translates to a supercharged s65 with tune..

[drwankel]

I have been running the NGK R2556G-9 plugs with a Harrop supercharger for a little over a year now. Absolutely no issues.

[Camnyc]

To add more fuel to the fire, I run the oe spec NGK plugs on my boosted e85 setup, 3 years in and no issues.

[Davisca455]

Originally Posted by RocketyMan

Do you know for a fact that it works with the ion-sensing without any hiccups?

I would be super-interested in this, but I've been burned before using other iridium plugs. -_-

If you are wondering if the NGK Racing plugs will work with a stock tune…they don’t.

I bought my car in ‘18 with the blower kit installed.
I needed to get the car SMOG’d, so I removed the blower kit except that I left the NGK Racing plugs and the big injectors in place thinking I’d save myself some time.
The car would barely run, all popping an farting…not good!

[pbonsalb]

This is an interesting question and I am not an automotive electrical engineer. My very simplistic guess is that if plug resistance is the same, there should be no effect on current measurement during the exhaust stroke. As I understand, the requirement that misfire detection has to be disabled is for forced induction in general, not specific to use of aftermarket plugs.

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by BSM n54iS

Just to add these plugs are favorites for stage 2 n54's that are highly boosted and s55's as well but then again you have to gap them to your specific preferences. Not sure how that translates to a supercharged s65 with tune..

That's good to know. These particular NGK racing plugs (which are one step cooler than the OEM S65 plug) are also used by highly boosted Nissan GTRs and by the big boost Mitsubishi EVO crowd. With my Harrop Supercharged S65, I did not gap these racing plugs but ran them straight out of the box - as is. I did this based on communication with NGK Technical Service and other online research which if I recall correctly is very close the OEM NGK plug gap. Over the years, some forum members who run these racing plugs in boosted S65s, researched the specifications of the plug which superseded the original when R2256B-9 shifted to R2556G-9. After more communication with NGK Technical Service we determined the two plugs were identical. Boosted S65 owners have successfully run both. If interested, some of that dialog is contained on the pages I linked above. This NGK Racing Plug R2556B-9 is (was) also sold to the public with G-Power blower kits. FYI the supporting information below if interested. PS: Davisca455 determined the difference in electrode recess position seemingly shown in the side by side photos was due to the photograph angle and not present in reality which he posted about in his "Hooray for Spark Plugs" thread.
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1763451
.

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by Camnyc

To add more fuel to the fire, I run the oe spec NGK plugs on my boosted e85 setup, 3 years in and no issues.

I'm interested to know how many miles you've put on the OEM spec NGK plugs in the last 3 years in your E85 boosted application?

[Camnyc]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

I'm interested to know how many miles you've put on the OEM spec NGK plugs in the last 3 years in your E85 boosted application?

Im a bit neurotic when it comes to maintenance I usually pull and inspect the plugs with the annual oil change. Ive changed plugs once in the last 3 years, first set did 4k miles on the 93/8.5psi setup and 3k miles on the initial e85/12.5psi setup. I ran into some coil issues this past summer and swapped plugs and coilpacks to correct a misfire issue, that set has done maybe 1500 miles if that. Car doesnt get driven much at all these days………

I am interested in going with a 1-2 step colder plug but I need to consult with my tuner, interested to see if there is any actual benefit…..

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by Camnyc

To add more fuel to the fire, I run the oe spec NGK plugs on my boosted e85 setup, 3 years in and no issues.

Originally Posted by Camnyc

Im a bit neurotic when it comes to maintenance I usually pull and inspect the plugs with the annual oil change. Ive changed plugs once in the last 3 years, first set did 4k miles on the 93/8.5psi setup and 3k miles on the initial e85/12.5psi setup. I ran into some coil issues this past summer and swapped plugs and coil packs to correct a misfire issue, that set has done maybe 1500 miles if that. Car doesn't get driven much at all these days………

I am interested in going with a 1-2 step colder plug but I need to consult with my tuner, interested to see if there is any actual benefit…..

So your OEM plug set #1 served for 7000 miles in two boosted applications with the second one being more severe boost. #2 OEM plug set has currently served you for 1500miles in your current set-up. The OEM spark plugs, at least in Harrop blower applications, tend to last around ~15,000 miles which is less than half of the normally aspirated OEM recommended plug service life for the S65. Your OEM plugs 'might' last you another 12K miles (under boost) which could be quite a few years at your current annual mileage usage. The actual benefit of cooler plugs under high boost is reduced risk of detonation (knock) and pre-ignition - as well as misfires at WOT with high RPM - which worn OEM plugs tend to manifest after a while. The second benefit I experienced (and others have too) is the extended service life in a boosted application. Mine lasted for 50K+ miles.

[Camnyc]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

So your OEM plug set #1 served for 7000 miles in two boosted applications with the second one being more severe boost. #2 OEM plug set has currently served you for 1500miles in your current set-up. The OEM spark plugs, at least in Harrop blower applications, tend to last around ~15,000 miles which is less than half of the normally aspirated OEM recommended plug service life for the S65. Your OEM plugs 'might' last you another 12K miles (under boost) which could be quite a few years at your current annual mileage usage. The actual benefit of cooler plugs under high boost is reduced risk of detonation (knock) and pre-ignition - as well as misfires at WOT with high RPM - which worn OEM plugs tend to manifest after a while. The second benefit I experienced (and others have too) is the extended service life in a boosted application. Mine lasted for 50K+ miles.

I have no doubt the oem plugs in my current setup will last 10-15k. The benefits of the colder plug are obvious, I will have to check with my tuner to see how the knock system is being managed currently.

With bpm handling the tuning for the harrop kits, what has Mike had to say regarding running the colder plugs and their effects on the knock system? (Forgive me if it’s covered in another thread).

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by Camnyc

I have no doubt the oem plugs in my current setup will last 10-15k. The benefits of the colder plug are obvious, I will have to check with my tuner to see how the knock system is being managed currently.

With bpm handling the tuning for the harrop kits, what has Mike had to say regarding running the colder plugs and their effects on the knock system? (Forgive me if it’s covered in another thread).

I forgive you. Mike B’ stated in “The Official Harrop Thread” (his thread) on more than one occasion his opinion only to run the OEM plugs. If I recall correctly his opinion centered around the correct functioning of the OEM ionic knock sensing system. The Harrop thread is a good read as is the unofficial “Harrop Owners Chime In” thread.

One day I’ll dig into the details regarding the wizardy of the ionic knock sensing routine inputs because other people have speculated all that’s important is the resistance of the plug. Whatever the case, I and others have run these particular plugs successfully for over 50K miles without problems BUT only because our Harrop supercharger tune disables the misfire DME subroutine coding - as do other supercharger tunes such as G-Power or VF-Engineering.

Please do let us know what your tuner says..

[pbonsalb]

E85 burns cooler. Could the reduced combustion temperature also reduce the need for a cooler plug? I would probably focus more on reducing spark blowout and increasing spark energy given the larger combustion event from the airflow of 12.5psi. Reduced gap and/or stronger coils, but I would also want to be confident any changes did not affect the knock sensing though E85 (assuming it is tested to be E85) should reduce the likelihood of knock. Probably the E85 tune is really an E60 tune if pump E85 is being used since it is well known the E content can vary.

[Camnyc]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

I forgive you. Mike B’ stated in “The Official Harrop Thread” (his thread) on more than one occasion his opinion only to run the OEM plugs. If I recall correctly his opinion centered around the correct functioning of the OEM ionic knock sensing system. The Harrop thread is a good read as is the unofficial “Harrop Owners Chime In” thread.

One day I’ll dig into the details regarding the wizardy of the ionic knock sensing routine inputs because other people have speculated all that’s important is the resistance of the plug. Whatever the case, I and others have run these particular plugs successfully for over 50K miles without problems BUT only because our Harrop supercharger tune disables the misfire DME subroutine coding - as do other supercharger tunes such as G-Power or VF-Engineering.

Please do let us know what your tuner says..

Every tuner has a different methodology, Ill see what Jordan has to say regarding.