Mobil 1 10w-60, anyone tried it or know anything about it?

Assimilator1 · 02-06-2022, 10:03 AM

Just been reading through this thread again and realised that in discussions about Zinc (ZDDP), their was no mention as to how much zinc the Castrol 10w-60 oil has.
An answer to that would give some idea as to whether the Mobil 1 10w-60 would be ok in the long run for the cats or not. But I couldn't find any solid info.

Does anyone know what the zinc level is for the Castrol Edge Supercar/Edge 10W60 with Titanium FST?

edycol · 02-11-2022, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

Just been reading through this thread again and realised that in discussions about Zinc (ZDDP), their was no mention as to how much zinc the Castrol 10w-60 oil has.
An answer to that would give some idea as to whether the Mobil 1 10w-60 would be ok in the long run for the cats or not. But I couldn't find any solid info.

Does anyone know what the zinc level is for the Castrol Edge Supercar/Edge 10W60 with Titanium FST?

Probably around 1100ppm.

Assimilator1 · 02-12-2022, 04:35 AM

Probably?
This guy claims 1080, so about what you said, but he doesn't say where he got that info from.
And this person claims in a conversation with Castrol (in 2014) "The Castrol oils all have 900-1100 PPM of zinc".
Which further corroborates it, although it's old and 2nd hand info.

Anyone got anything solid on that?

Assimilator1 · 02-13-2022, 06:31 AM

Actually, their might be a much easier way to answer my Zinc question for the Castrol (or any oil), at least the upper levels.
This post claims :-

"API SM specifies that certified oil must have 800 ppm (parts per million) of ZDDP or less. In the past, before SM grade, the ZDDP content was between 1100 to 1600 ppm. Most oils were near the lower end of that range, around 1100 ppm.
While Castrol Edge probably comes right up to the 800ppm limit (again, we don't know for sure,) ......

And elsewhere talking about Mobil 1 10w-60 :-

"the specs on this oil look positive, zddp of 1300ppm, resembles the Castrol edge 10w-60 (or TWS)
what is peculiar is that it says API SM on the bottle, and SM spec oils should have less than 1000 ppm of zinc / phosphor."

Wiki claims this! :-
For example, in API SG rated oils, this was at the 1200–1300 ppm level for zinc and phosphorus, where the current SM is under 600 ppm

Any truth in that API spec claim? (and as to which number is right? Max 800 or 1000 ppm?).
Anyone know where to find the API SM ZDDP specs?

I eventually found some specs for SM and SN here, but they don't mention Zinc or ZDDP!
(Both the Mobil 1 and Castrol 10w-60 oils meet SM and SN spec).

[edit] Messaged API and Castrol about it, let's see if they reply!
I tried to message Esso about the Mobil 1, but it refuses to send my message stating it fails an anti-spam check!

IamFODI · 02-26-2022, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

Actually, their might be a much easier way to answer my Zinc question for the Castrol (or any oil), at least the upper levels.
This post claims :-

"API SM specifies that certified oil must have 800 ppm (parts per million) of ZDDP or less. In the past, before SM grade, the ZDDP content was between 1100 to 1600 ppm. Most oils were near the lower end of that range, around 1100 ppm.
While Castrol Edge probably comes right up to the 800ppm limit (again, we don't know for sure,) ......

AFAIK this only applies to xW-20 and xW-30 oils.

IamFODI · 02-26-2022, 06:12 PM

On ZDDP more generally: ZDDP is actually a class of additives, not a single additive. Not all forms are created equal. Some stay in the oil better than others do; those forms could be present at higher levels without unduly endangering the cats – and they could be present at lower levels without unduly sacrificing wear protection.

It's also not the only anti-wear additive. Anti-wear properties are about the whole formulation, not one number. An oil with more ZDDP could easily protect less well than one with less. So, estimating anti-wear potential based on ZDDP content isn't going to give you an accurate picture.

Also, ZDDP competes with other additives like friction modifiers and detergents/dispersants. Again, it's about the total formulation, not any one part.

You don't want as much ZDDP as possible. You want as much as necessary. Everything is a balance.

All of this is why I'd never pick an oil based on ZDDP content.

As for Mobil 1 10W-60, IDK much about it but it's bound to be an excellent product. It just is. I just don't see a compelling case to take it over Castrol TWS or BMW's current oil. The only single attribute of an oil that tells you anything useful is the endorsement of a competent party, and the most competent party is the one that designed your engine. That said, if someone told me they wanted to run Mobil 1 10W-60, I certainly wouldn't get in their way.

Assimilator1 · 03-03-2022, 04:28 PM

The compelling case for using Mobil one is that I could get it much cheaper than Castrol (see my op), and it's still a good oil

.

I didn't pick the oil because of ZDDP content nor was I trying to estimate anti-wear properties (other than whether it would be broadly as good as the Castrol), I only brought ZDDP up as I was concerned that if it was higher than the Castrol oil that the cats could suffer in the long run.

But good points otherwise, thanks for the input

.
Any idea if ZDDP is limited to certain levels in API SM/SN oil specs?

I know BMW recommends (recommended?) Castrol, but they now also recommend Shell. If they have stopped recommending Castrol oil, that of course doesn't make it unsuitable now, it's just not the one they promote anymore as they now have a deal with Shell. In that light, that is why I went for Mobil one (and it's a known good oil). Just I'm not sure about the cats!

IamFODI · 03-03-2022, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

I didn't pick the oil because of ZDDP content nor was I trying to estimate anti-wear properties (other than whether it would be broadly as good as the Castrol), I only brought ZDDP up as I was concerned that if it was higher than the Castrol oil that the cats could suffer in the long run.

Ah, okay. Sorry I missed that.

Theoretically yes. How long is the question. Probably quite a while.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

Any idea if ZDDP is limited to certain levels in API SM/SN oil specs?

Again, yes, but only for xW-30 and below. API SM and SN have no upper limit on Zn or P for xW-40 and higher viscosity grades.

Assimilator1 · 03-04-2022, 03:14 PM

Ah I see, how odd they only limit it for the thinner grades, I guess it's market dependant?

Btw, I got this email back from Castrol

Thanks for contacting Castrol,

For Castrol EDGE Professional TWS 10W-60 typical values regarding ZDDP are:

Zinc: 1000ppm

Phosphorus: 940 ppm

sulphur: 3800 ppm

furthermore, the HTHS at 150°C is 5,2 mPas

Kind regards,

Charles Abbey

Castrol Technical Service Team – AUTO

mailto: lubricants_uk@sykes.com
https://www.castrol.com/en_gb
Phone: 0049 234 539 7082

Now I just need the same info from Mobil to get an idea of how their oil is for my cats!

aus · 03-05-2022, 11:09 PM

I remember reading here the Castrol 10W60 sheers down to 40W pretty quickly and that's the weight it'll be for much of the time in the engine between changes??
.

Assimilator1 · 03-14-2022, 05:16 PM

Do you remember where you saw that?
Perhaps in the oil reports thread?

Back to my thread, I still haven't got around to contacting Mobil after the last failed attempt to email them.

02-06-2022, 10:03 AM	#23
Assimilator1 Major 594 Rep 1,026 Posts Drives: BMW M3 e92 08 & 330d e90 10 Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: UK, Surrey iTrader: (0) Garage List 2010 BMW 330d [8.00] 2008 BMW M3 [0.00]	Just been reading through this thread again and realised that in discussions about Zinc (ZDDP), their was no mention as to how much zinc the Castrol 10w-60 oil has. An answer to that would give some idea as to whether the Mobil 1 10w-60 would be ok in the long run for the cats or not. But I couldn't find any solid info. Does anyone know what the zinc level is for the Castrol Edge Supercar/Edge 10W60 with Titanium FST? __________________ . Oil analysis for finding wearing rod bearings?. Collation of oil analysis reports with some rod bearing photos for the M3's S65. My categorisation of pulled rod bearings in the rod bearing condition thread. My updated 'Blown engines' list.
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02-12-2022, 04:35 AM	#25
Assimilator1 Major 594 Rep 1,026 Posts Drives: BMW M3 e92 08 & 330d e90 10 Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: UK, Surrey iTrader: (0) Garage List 2010 BMW 330d [8.00] 2008 BMW M3 [0.00]	Probably? This guy claims 1080, so about what you said, but he doesn't say where he got that info from. And this person claims in a conversation with Castrol (in 2014) "The Castrol oils all have 900-1100 PPM of zinc". Which further corroborates it, although it's old and 2nd hand info. Anyone got anything solid on that? __________________ . Oil analysis for finding wearing rod bearings?. Collation of oil analysis reports with some rod bearing photos for the M3's S65. My categorisation of pulled rod bearings in the rod bearing condition thread. My updated 'Blown engines' list. Last edited by Assimilator1; 02-12-2022 at 06:03 AM..
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02-13-2022, 06:31 AM	#26
Assimilator1 Major 594 Rep 1,026 Posts Drives: BMW M3 e92 08 & 330d e90 10 Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: UK, Surrey iTrader: (0) Garage List 2010 BMW 330d [8.00] 2008 BMW M3 [0.00]	Actually, their might be a much easier way to answer my Zinc question for the Castrol (or any oil), at least the upper levels. This post claims :- "API SM specifies that certified oil must have 800 ppm (parts per million) of ZDDP or less. In the past, before SM grade, the ZDDP content was between 1100 to 1600 ppm. Most oils were near the lower end of that range, around 1100 ppm. While Castrol Edge probably comes right up to the 800ppm limit (again, we don't know for sure,) ...... And elsewhere talking about Mobil 1 10w-60 :- "the specs on this oil look positive, zddp of 1300ppm, resembles the Castrol edge 10w-60 (or TWS) what is peculiar is that it says API SM on the bottle, and SM spec oils should have less than 1000 ppm of zinc / phosphor." Wiki claims this! :- For example, in API SG rated oils, this was at the 1200–1300 ppm level for zinc and phosphorus, where the current SM is under 600 ppm Any truth in that API spec claim? (and as to which number is right? Max 800 or 1000 ppm?). Anyone know where to find the API SM ZDDP specs? I eventually found some specs for SM and SN here, but they don't mention Zinc or ZDDP! (Both the Mobil 1 and Castrol 10w-60 oils meet SM and SN spec). [edit] Messaged API and Castrol about it, let's see if they reply! I tried to message Esso about the Mobil 1, but it refuses to send my message stating it fails an anti-spam check! __________________ . Oil analysis for finding wearing rod bearings?. Collation of oil analysis reports with some rod bearing photos for the M3's S65. My categorisation of pulled rod bearings in the rod bearing condition thread. My updated 'Blown engines' list. Last edited by Assimilator1; 02-13-2022 at 08:57 AM..
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02-26-2022, 06:12 PM	#28
IamFODI Lieutenant 366 Rep 404 Posts Drives: 2008 E90 M3 6MT Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: SE PA iTrader: (0)	On ZDDP more generally: ZDDP is actually a class of additives, not a single additive. Not all forms are created equal. Some stay in the oil better than others do; those forms could be present at higher levels without unduly endangering the cats – and they could be present at lower levels without unduly sacrificing wear protection. It's also not the only anti-wear additive. Anti-wear properties are about the whole formulation, not one number. An oil with more ZDDP could easily protect less well than one with less. So, estimating anti-wear potential based on ZDDP content isn't going to give you an accurate picture. Also, ZDDP competes with other additives like friction modifiers and detergents/dispersants. Again, it's about the total formulation, not any one part. You don't want as much ZDDP as possible. You want as much as necessary. Everything is a balance. All of this is why I'd never pick an oil based on ZDDP content. As for Mobil 1 10W-60, IDK much about it but it's bound to be an excellent product. It just is. I just don't see a compelling case to take it over Castrol TWS or BMW's current oil. The only single attribute of an oil that tells you anything useful is the endorsement of a competent party, and the most competent party is the one that designed your engine. That said, if someone told me they wanted to run Mobil 1 10W-60, I certainly wouldn't get in their way.
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03-03-2022, 04:28 PM	#29
Assimilator1 Major 594 Rep 1,026 Posts Drives: BMW M3 e92 08 & 330d e90 10 Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: UK, Surrey iTrader: (0) Garage List 2010 BMW 330d [8.00] 2008 BMW M3 [0.00]	The compelling case for using Mobil one is that I could get it much cheaper than Castrol (see my op), and it's still a good oil . I didn't pick the oil because of ZDDP content nor was I trying to estimate anti-wear properties (other than whether it would be broadly as good as the Castrol), I only brought ZDDP up as I was concerned that if it was higher than the Castrol oil that the cats could suffer in the long run. But good points otherwise, thanks for the input . Any idea if ZDDP is limited to certain levels in API SM/SN oil specs? I know BMW recommends (recommended?) Castrol, but they now also recommend Shell. If they have stopped recommending Castrol oil, that of course doesn't make it unsuitable now, it's just not the one they promote anymore as they now have a deal with Shell. In that light, that is why I went for Mobil one (and it's a known good oil). Just I'm not sure about the cats! __________________ . Oil analysis for finding wearing rod bearings?. Collation of oil analysis reports with some rod bearing photos for the M3's S65. My categorisation of pulled rod bearings in the rod bearing condition thread. My updated 'Blown engines' list.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-04-2022, 03:14 PM	#31
Assimilator1 Major 594 Rep 1,026 Posts Drives: BMW M3 e92 08 & 330d e90 10 Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: UK, Surrey iTrader: (0) Garage List 2010 BMW 330d [8.00] 2008 BMW M3 [0.00]	Ah I see, how odd they only limit it for the thinner grades, I guess it's market dependant? Btw, I got this email back from Castrol Thanks for contacting Castrol, For Castrol EDGE Professional TWS 10W-60 typical values regarding ZDDP are: Zinc: 1000ppm Phosphorus: 940 ppm sulphur: 3800 ppm furthermore, the HTHS at 150°C is 5,2 mPas Kind regards, Charles Abbey Castrol Technical Service Team – AUTO mailto: lubricants_uk@sykes.com https://www.castrol.com/en_gb Phone: 0049 234 539 7082 Now I just need the same info from Mobil to get an idea of how their oil is for my cats! __________________ . Oil analysis for finding wearing rod bearings?. Collation of oil analysis reports with some rod bearing photos for the M3's S65. My categorisation of pulled rod bearings in the rod bearing condition thread. My updated 'Blown engines' list.
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03-05-2022, 11:09 PM	#32
aus Major General 892 Rep 9,032 Posts Drives: Odysse Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Seal Beach, CA iTrader: (10)	I remember reading here the Castrol 10W60 sheers down to 40W pretty quickly and that's the weight it'll be for much of the time in the engine between changes?? . __________________ Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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03-14-2022, 05:16 PM	#33
Assimilator1 Major 594 Rep 1,026 Posts Drives: BMW M3 e92 08 & 330d e90 10 Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: UK, Surrey iTrader: (0) Garage List 2010 BMW 330d [8.00] 2008 BMW M3 [0.00]	Do you remember where you saw that? Perhaps in the oil reports thread? Back to my thread, I still haven't got around to contacting Mobil after the last failed attempt to email them. __________________ . Oil analysis for finding wearing rod bearings?. Collation of oil analysis reports with some rod bearing photos for the M3's S65. My categorisation of pulled rod bearings in the rod bearing condition thread. My updated 'Blown engines' list.
	Appreciate 0 Quote