Man Down! 2008 M3 Rod Bearing Failed

[Yoddha]

Sorry to hear this has happened to you mate. I know you must be devastated. If your aftermarket warranty doesn't cover the bill, I would attempt to contact BMWNA and try and explain the entire situation to them. They have given a few others on the forums goodwills on new engine replacements. I am sure they will be very sympathetic to your situation. Best of luck OP

[davesaddiction]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

he is correct, generally with these estimates, it is made by statistical method with assumptions for life expectancy, etc and the numbers are pretty reliable. Usually if actual observations are outside of this 2%-4% range, we're actually talking about chances likely beyond 6 sigmas out of the norm.

If 2-4% is the "acceptable" catastrophic failure rate on all BMW engines over their lifetime of use, that's one thing. I'm trying to get a handle on if this is truly the number of failures we can expect with our S65, related to the rod-bearing issue.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by davesaddiction

If 2-4% is the "acceptable" catastrophic failure rate on all BMW engines over their lifetime of use, that's one thing. I'm trying to get a handle on if this is truly the number of failures we can expect with our S65, related to the rod-bearing issue.

...and that's why he dropped a bombshell with this internal number. You know how these things go, the source is from a close friend's cousin's church member's neighbor's co-worker's fraternity brother who has a resource with someone at BMW DE or BMWNA.

So until we see the actual leaked doc, we won't know for sure. I'm not trying to discredit the claim.

[IIAp3x]

Originally Posted by M__3__R__A__G__E

Sorry to hear this has happened to you mate. I know you must be devastated. If your aftermarket warranty doesn't cover the bill, I would attempt to contact BMWNA and try and explain the entire situation to them. They have given a few others on the forums goodwills on new engine replacements. I am sure they will be very sympathetic to your situation. Best of luck OP

Thanks and I hope so too... I have had some pretty cool cars over the years, including several M3's... E36, E46, and now my E92... I put 150k miles on the E36 and 180k miles on the E46... I honestly thought that I could do the same with the E92; that it would be just as reliable and durable... Pretty disappointed...

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by buddalun

Does applying throttle when in a too tall of a gear (eg, going 30MPH in 6th gear and pressing on gas) also cause the dilution of oil and gas you mentioned? I believe this is called "lulling" or something to that effect.

Does this mean that once warmed up the S65 should be pushed at least once per drive, or at least once per few drives?

TIA

It's called "lugging" the motor. It's worse to lug the car around at a low RPM/high gear than rev the piss out of it. A motor, once running, will want to continue to run, even moving. Now imagine the strain on the parts when you are putting resistance to them. This is amplified on a motor with no torque like ours where it will lug around sometimes as it's just unavoidable.

(I could leave a stop light in 5 gear in my vette and it would move, try that in the M and it will most likely just stall).

I have stated it prior and was dismissed by the rude posters of this board, that I have personally heard a few different cars have an audible knocking on tip in of the throttle when slightly lugging the car around. The first car was constant and I don't know if it is still running and the 2nd car only had the issue after presumably bad gas and the noise was never heard again. Either way, a light knocking under load is no good.

[Yoddha]

Originally Posted by IIAp3x

Thanks and I hope so too... I have had some pretty cool cars over the years, including several M3's... E36, E46, and now my E92... I put 150k miles on the E36 and 180k miles on the E46... I honestly thought that I could do the same with the E92; that it would be just as reliable and durable... Pretty disappointed...

I would be disappointed as well, this isn't exactly a cheap car...it's actually on the pricey side. What I would suggest if warranty replaces the engine or BMWNA goodwills a new engine, is replace the oil every 5,000 miles and keep up with a preventative maintenance schedule (available on the forums), and after your warranty is up on the new engine, replace the OEM bearings with WPC treated ones. Once again, sorry that you have to go through this, hopefully all will turn out well.

[maloo]

Have there been any reports of BMW goodwilling the engine in 2015? The goodwill reports I've seen have not been all that recent.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by maloo

Have there been any reports of BMW goodwilling the engine in 2015? The goodwill reports I've seen have not been all that recent.

They did mine this past November.

[W///]

Originally Posted by IIAp3x

Thanks and I hope so too... I have had some pretty cool cars over the years, including several M3's... E36, E46, and now my E92... I put 150k miles on the E36 and 180k miles on the E46... I honestly thought that I could do the same with the E92; that it would be just as reliable and durable... Pretty disappointed...

I hate to hear about your situation, but it's just luck. Do you know how many E46 M3's have either had their subframes rip, or VANOS causing catastrophic engine failures before 100k miles, yet alone 180k?

This whole rod bearing issue sucks, but I still maintain that I trust me S65 more than an S54.

[vastano]

Originally Posted by IIAp3x

Once fully warmed, there are several areas of my commute each day that gives me the opportunity to redline the car through several gears... the car gets redlined at least a few times at a minimum daily, and some days up to a dozen times... Spirited driving of course, not abuse...

you and I have different definitions on what 'babying' a car means...

I 'baby' my car which means i take it to redline MAYBE 1-2 times/week, if that...

[Beemdog]

Originally Posted by maloo

Have there been any reports of BMW goodwilling the engine in 2015? The goodwill reports I've seen have not been all that recent.

I'm expecting that as these cars get further in time away from their warranty end date, the goodwill fixes will drop off. It also helps to be the original owner and/or a repeat buyer of BMW products. Being a second-hand owner on a car more than one year past it's warranty end seems a tough situation for any kind of goodwill repairs.

[buddalun]

Originally Posted by s85e90

It's called "lugging" the motor. It's worse to lug the car around at a low RPM/high gear than rev the piss out of it. A motor, once running, will want to continue to run, even moving. Now imagine the strain on the parts when you are putting resistance to them. This is amplified on a motor with no torque like ours where it will lug around sometimes as it's just unavoidable.

(I could leave a stop light in 5 gear in my vette and it would move, try that in the M and it will most likely just stall).

I have stated it prior and was dismissed by the rude posters of this board, that I have personally heard a few different cars have an audible knocking on tip in of the throttle when slightly lugging the car around. The first car was constant and I don't know if it is still running and the 2nd car only had the issue after presumably bad gas and the noise was never heard again. Either way, a light knocking under load is no good.

S85,

Yes, exactly! You nailed it.

I recall your post, and your post is what put this idea in my head. I thought about it since you mentioned it, and it seems, at the surface, to make sense. I'm not saying this is what causes the bearing issue, but I can see how it is likely bad for our engines to be exposed to that type of driving.

If I recall you had planned on making a post about this issue, correct?

[IIAp3x]

Originally Posted by vastano

you and I have different definitions on what 'babying' a car means...

I 'baby' my car which means i take it to redline MAYBE 1-2 times/week, if that...

Usually second gear gets redlined or at least very close every time I hit an entrance ramp to the freeway... This should in no way compromise the health of the motor; in fact, I would think it would help clean out some of the carbon build up...

When I say babied, I mean that maintenance of drivetrain, interior, and no track days or heavy mods, no abusive driving, etc..

[vegnomeat]

Originally Posted by nthretourNAFTW

It's been a long time since the last post about a B failure, actually.
Funny how some people let psychosis replace rational thinking. Check the OP posting count. Maybe 20% of M3 owners are forum members but 70% join just to report a B failure (which is the OP case). As a result it gets a lot of social media exposure and people get the wrong idea how often this occurs. The answer is still very few.

There is a leaked official B failure rate % from BMW. Don't try to ask me where I got it from, I cannot reveal it. So don't ask, i won't answer.
It's 2-4% including all supercharged and tuned cars (which are evidently more susceptible to engine failure). If you remove SC and tuned cars it's even smaller.

Off course one would like to see a number like 0.2% but 2-4% means 96-98% of people won't be affected. Not perfect but still very reliable.

I'm calling BS, just like your adaptive and reducing power thread.

[maloo]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

They did mine this past November.

I would consider that recent so good to know.

Originally Posted by Beemdog

I'm expecting that as these cars get further in time away from their warranty end date, the goodwill fixes will drop off. It also helps to be the original owner and/or a repeat buyer of BMW products. Being a second-hand owner on a car more than one year past it's warranty end seems a tough situation for any kind of goodwill repairs.

radiantm3's experience certainly supports what you're saying as it appears like he currently owns 3 relatively newer BMWs.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by maloo

I would consider that recent so good to know.



radiantm3's experience certainly supports what you're saying as it appears like he currently owns 3 relatively newer BMWs.

Brand loyalty and the chance you will buy more "new" cars in the future definitely plays a big part of "good will" repairs.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

Brand loyalty and the chance you will buy more "new" cars in the future definitely plays a big part of "good will" repairs.

Can you recap for us your experience?:

1. Original owner?
2. mileage of failure?
3. month, year warranty expired?
4. month, year of failure?
5. how long did it take to get the approval?
6. how many levels up BMWNA did you have to go?
7. any other tips?

[IIAp3x]

Originally Posted by vegnomeat

I'm calling BS, just like your adaptive and reducing power thread.

Coincidence that I just recently joined here... I have been a longtime member of M3Forum.net... Recently purchasing a E92, I have found that M3post was much more informative for this particular model... I found that M3forum.net was very informative for the E46 M3...

I did not just join to post about a bearing failure... I was just starting to get acquainted here when the failure occurred...

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by IIAp3x

Coincidence that I just recently joined here... I have been a longtime member of M3Forum.net... Recently purchasing a E92, I have found that M3post was much more informative for this particular model... I found that M3forum.net was very informative for the E46 M3...

I did not just join to post about a bearing failure... I was just starting to get acquainted here when the failure occurred...

Yeah, sadly the e9x forum hasn't really taken off there. It may as it gets older, who knows. that was a great venue.

[IIAp3x]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

Can you recap for us your experience?:

1. Original owner?
2. mileage of failure?
3. month, year warranty expired?
4. month, year of failure?
5. how long did it take to get the approval?
6. how many levels up BMWNA did you have to go?
7. any other tips?

This would be great to know!

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

Can you recap for us your experience?:

1. Original owner?
2. mileage of failure?
3. month, year warranty expired?
4. month, year of failure?
5. how long did it take to get the approval?
6. how many levels up BMWNA did you have to go?
7. any other tips?

1. Original owner, 2011.5 (November 2010 delivery). Bearings were making noise at 16-17k miles and the bottom end was replaced under warranty then.
2. Failure happened around 60k miles. Was getting on the freeway during traffic (no hard driving) and the car went into limp mode. Got off the freeway and parked in a parking lot. Tried to fire the car up and the engine wouldn't turn.
3. Standard warranty ends at 50k miles? I forget, but didn't hit the time expiration.
4. Failed around August or September of 2014.

I have BMW's factory extended warranty, but it was denied because they did research and "found footage of my car racing at the track and that is considered abuse". They also found my car's max redline recorded at 8500-8600rpm. Never miss-shifted and my software isn't set to raise the redline.

5. My car sat at the dealership lot for probably 2 months without any final word. Not surprisingly, the dealership kept saying BMWNA didn't want to fix my car and BMWNA would tell me that it's the dealership's call and they didn't want to repair my car under my extended warranty.

6. Not sure how far I had to go up. I dealt with the second contact after the initial customer rep for the rest of the duration.

7. I talked to a bunch of people who went through the same thing or had friends who did and the only real advice they could give is to push that I had bought so many BMW's recently and that I am a loyal customer who plans to keep buying in the future. In the end, all they really care about is money and your chance of future purchases.

At the time I was planning on buying an i3 and getting rid of the X5M to get a newer X5D. I talked about my BMW history (owned 7 new BMW's since 2009), and how I was planning to buy the new ones soon. If they didn't fix my motor I would not buy another BMW based on principle. But I decided to risk it and pick up the i3 during this whole process. I called BMWNA up after getting the i3 and told them about it. Like a week later, I got a call from my dealership that BMWNA has approved the repair and a new motor was ordered from Germany.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

1. Original owner, 2011.5 (November 2010 delivery). Bearings were making noise at 16-17k miles and the bottom end was replaced under warranty then.
2. Failure happened around 60k miles. Was getting on the freeway during traffic (no hard driving) and the car went into limp mode. Got off the freeway and parked in a parking lot. Tried to fire the car up and the engine wouldn't turn.
3. Standard warranty ends at 50k miles? I forget, but didn't hit the time expiration.
4. Failed around August or September of 2014.

I have BMW's factory extended warranty, but it was denied because they did research and "found footage of my car racing at the track and that is considered abuse". They also found my car's max redline recorded at 8500-8600rpm. Never miss-shifted and my software isn't set to raise the redline.

5. My car sat at the dealership lot for probably 2 months without any final word. Not surprisingly, the dealership kept saying BMWNA didn't want to fix my car and BMWNA would tell me that it's the dealership's call and they didn't want to repair my car under my extended warranty.

6. Not sure how far I had to go up. I dealt with the second contact after the initial customer rep for the rest of the duration.

7. I talked to a bunch of people who went through the same thing or had friends who did and the only real advice they could give is to push that I had bought so many BMW's recently and that I am a loyal customer who plans to keep buying in the future. In the end, all they really care about is money and your chance of future purchases.

At the time I was planning on buying an i3 and getting rid of the X5M to get a newer X5D. I talked about my BMW history (owned 7 new BMW's since 2009), and how I was planning to buy the new ones soon. If they didn't fix my motor I would not buy another BMW based on principle. But I decided to risk it and pick up the i3 during this whole process. I called BMWNA up after getting the i3 and told them about it. Like a week later, I got a call from my dealership that BMWNA has approved the repair and a new motor was ordered from Germany.

Hmm this is interesting, at the end of the day, even with your known fix under warranty at 16k, they still initially denied your claim based on that you've used your car at the track as the sole reason?


My assessment of your situation is, that they couldn't find a legal way to wangle out of the fact that you still bought extended warranty.

thanks for the info!