DIY: S65 M3 Rod Bearing

jvictormp · 04-13-2020, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubbles

Indeed, loading the subframe on and off wasn’t a lot of fun.

After having to do it multiple times, angry a lot, and damaging the long bolts threads, I figured out a good way to do it.

Needed four jacks to support the subframe, each one at each extremity. Raising each extremity gradually, it went well.

jvictormp · 04-13-2020, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigermack

When you guys did this, did you guys mark where the subframe was? I am thinking the guy that did my subframe didn't really care and just tighten the bolts up. I had an alignment done shortly after and I notice that one side's wheel was further out than the other, would it be possible the subframe isn't centered?

No, as Assimilator1 said, there are dowels that guide the subframe, it's not possible to misalign it.

anerbe · 04-13-2020, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigermack

When you guys did this, did you guys mark where the subframe was? I am thinking the guy that did my subframe didn't really care and just tighten the bolts up. I had an alignment done shortly after and I notice that one side's wheel was further out than the other, would it be possible the subframe isn't centered?

Probably not I’m sure, but could it be the front has one rear wheel on it?

Bubbles · 04-13-2020, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigermack

When you guys did this, did you guys mark where the subframe was? I am thinking the guy that did my subframe didn't really care and just tighten the bolts up. I had an alignment done shortly after and I notice that one side's wheel was further out than the other, would it be possible the subframe isn't centered?

Probably unnecessary but for piece of mind I used a level.

tigermack · 04-13-2020, 10:35 AM

To add, the alignment was a bit off afterwards, too. I did go to a different shop but I am not sure what is right or wrong... shops have different readings?

deansbimmer · 04-13-2020, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigermack

To add, the alignment was a bit off afterwards, too. I did go to a different shop but I am not sure what is right or wrong... shops have different readings?

You can take the same car to three different alignment racks and get slightly different readings from each rack.

Bubbles · 04-13-2020, 09:03 PM

Off center steering wheel is bugging me. I don’t remember moving the steering wheel back to the highest position either before disconnect

Steering wheel is off center, although the rack is keyed I may have assembled a teeth or two off center. Going to pull the steering bolt back off and realign to see if that cures the issue. Good thing I bought extra steering bolts.

jvictormp · 04-14-2020, 07:21 AM

Does the steering bolt need to be replaced for a new one?

Assimilator1 · 04-14-2020, 07:35 AM

Can't see why it would, if it's a bolt pre-coated with thread lock then simply buy a bottle of thread lock & then you can re-do multiple bolts

.
The only exception to that is where bolts come into contact with oil (offhand, I recall that flywheel bolts for many Suzuki's are pre-coated, as threaded holes are open to engine oil).

pbonsalb · 04-14-2020, 08:40 AM

I did not replace the 2 rack to subframe bolts or the column to rack bolt.

SYT_Shadow · 04-14-2020, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I did not replace the 2 rack to subframe bolts or the column to rack bolt.

same here. I didn't unbolt the rack in the first place, just the steering coupler

pbonsalb · 04-14-2020, 11:07 AM

I think I realized that on the 2nd job. If I did more I would become more efficient. You can probably do the job in 6 hours now.

Bubbles · 04-14-2020, 07:59 PM

Always easier the second time around. I popped the hood, pulled the air box, removed steering coupler bolt and reinstalled in less than 10 mins. I used a magnet (pull the bolt out), steel fishing wire (hook the upper part of the rack) and serpentine belt tool (as a guide).

Steering wheel is now centered.

Interestingly, the wheel can be off even though the key fits.

Before doing this, I moved the steering to highest position which seemed to help.

aconeski · 04-30-2020, 08:47 AM

Hi guys, I purchased what are supposed to be BE Rod bolts from ECS tuning but the socket size is 7/16. Did BE change their size from 3/8 to 7/16 or did ECS package the wrong bolts? They came with BE installation instructions IE 50 ft/lbs. as apposed to 60 ft/lbs.

Thanks.

Edberto · 04-30-2020, 07:14 PM

Sounds like the APR 625+ bolts I have in (also 7/16) instead of the APR2000 (3/8) that most of the guys here got and used.
Take a look at the head and you will know for sure

Helmsman · 05-02-2020, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aconeski

Hi guys, I purchased what are supposed to be BE Rod bolts from ECS tuning but the socket size is 7/16. Did BE change their size from 3/8 to 7/16 or did ECS package the wrong bolts? They came with BE installation instructions IE 50 ft/lbs. as apposed to 60 ft/lbs.

Thanks.

Like Edberto say check the head. ARP 625 printed.

aconeski · 05-03-2020, 12:55 PM

Thanks for the replies. They are stamped ARP BE 2000 so I torqued them to 50. Maybe BE changed their size.

I have a Hypothetically question. If the bearings were not seated right IE - locator tabs not in place do you think that would restrict crack movement? And or would the rod caps still appear seamless once torqued?

Maybe crank the engine by hand one full rotation before starting is a good way for people to check bearing seat?

I've always wondered about this because it's hard to see how well the upper bearings are seated when you're installing them.

Thoughts?

pbonsalb · 05-03-2020, 01:56 PM

Feel free to do a couple of revolutions by hand. If the plugs are in, don’t worry when the effort increases near tdc.

tigermack · 05-20-2020, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigermack

When you guys did this, did you guys mark where the subframe was? I am thinking the guy that did my subframe didn't really care and just tighten the bolts up. I had an alignment done shortly after and I notice that one side's wheel was further out than the other, would it be possible the subframe isn't centered?

Updating to my own question, me and my bro found out that you can definitely misalign the subframe. It wasn't even and it was shifted about 1/3" to one side. Loosened the 4 bolts and evened it out.

schlichtm3 · 05-30-2020, 02:47 PM

Thanks for DIY was a very very Good help for me, so i changed my today...

SYT_Shadow · 05-30-2020, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schlichtm3

Thanks for DIY was a very very Good help for me, so i changed my today...

Awesome! Glad you found it helpful

Those rod bearings do not look that good!

frankc · 06-05-2020, 11:51 AM

Thanks for the DIY - I've read through it (and watched many videos) several times, and it will certainly make this job much easier.

I finally acquired a set of BE rod bearings and I'm now assembling the parts and tools I need for this job. The one question I have is regarding the 12mm socket for the OEM rod bolts. In this thread the terms 12pt, bi-hex and double-hex are used - but I believe these all refer to the same fastener type with a 120* angle on the point. This is different than a triple-square with a 90* angle. So my question is - is the head on the OEM rod bolt a double-hex or triple-square? I can't really tell from the photo I saw posted in this thread.

You can read more on the differences in this thread:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/...d.php?t=406007

04-13-2020, 10:35 AM	#621
tigermack OPN DIFF 475 Rep 1,908 Posts Drives: 10' E90 M3 6MT LB Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Pacific Ocean iTrader: (12) Garage List 2010 M3 [0.00] 1995 BMW e36 325i [7.91] 2006 BMW e90 330i [8.34]	To add, the alignment was a bit off afterwards, too. I did go to a different shop but I am not sure what is right or wrong... shops have different readings? __________________ '10 LB E90 slicktop/speed cloth/6MT ex. '06 330i 6MT & '10 n54 6MT Msport Autocross vids https://www.youtube.com/user/tigermack https://www.instagram.com/tigermack
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-13-2020, 09:03 PM	#623
Bubbles Brigadier General 2753 Rep 4,445 Posts Drives: Green Bastard Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Bishop Bend iTrader: (3)	Off center steering wheel is bugging me. I don’t remember moving the steering wheel back to the highest position either before disconnect Steering wheel is off center, although the rack is keyed I may have assembled a teeth or two off center. Going to pull the steering bolt back off and realign to see if that cures the issue. Good thing I bought extra steering bolts. __________________
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-14-2020, 07:21 AM	#624
jvictormp Captain 881 Rep 787 Posts Drives: 2008 M3 E92 6MT Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Brazil iTrader: (0)	Does the steering bolt need to be replaced for a new one?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-14-2020, 07:35 AM	#625
Assimilator1 Major 593 Rep 1,026 Posts Drives: BMW M3 e92 08 & 330d e90 10 Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: UK, Surrey iTrader: (0) Garage List 2010 BMW 330d [8.00] 2008 BMW M3 [0.00]	Can't see why it would, if it's a bolt pre-coated with thread lock then simply buy a bottle of thread lock & then you can re-do multiple bolts . The only exception to that is where bolts come into contact with oil (offhand, I recall that flywheel bolts for many Suzuki's are pre-coated, as threaded holes are open to engine oil). __________________ . Oil analysis for finding wearing rod bearings?. Collation of oil analysis reports with some rod bearing photos for the M3's S65. My categorisation of pulled rod bearings in the rod bearing condition thread. My updated 'Blown engines' list.
	Appreciate 1 jvictormp881.00 Quote

04-14-2020, 08:40 AM	#626
pbonsalb Lieutenant General 5234 Rep 10,614 Posts Drives: 18 F90 M5, 99 E36 M3 Turbo Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: New England iTrader: (4)	I did not replace the 2 rack to subframe bolts or the column to rack bolt.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-14-2020, 11:07 AM	#628
pbonsalb Lieutenant General 5234 Rep 10,614 Posts Drives: 18 F90 M5, 99 E36 M3 Turbo Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: New England iTrader: (4)	I think I realized that on the 2nd job. If I did more I would become more efficient. You can probably do the job in 6 hours now.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-14-2020, 07:59 PM	#629
Bubbles Brigadier General 2753 Rep 4,445 Posts Drives: Green Bastard Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Bishop Bend iTrader: (3)	Off center steering wheel fixed Always easier the second time around. I popped the hood, pulled the air box, removed steering coupler bolt and reinstalled in less than 10 mins. I used a magnet (pull the bolt out), steel fishing wire (hook the upper part of the rack) and serpentine belt tool (as a guide). Steering wheel is now centered. Interestingly, the wheel can be off even though the key fits. Before doing this, I moved the steering to highest position which seemed to help. Attached Images __________________ Last edited by Bubbles; 04-14-2020 at 11:57 PM..
	Appreciate 2 Assimilator1593.00 GoodTime62.00 Quote

04-30-2020, 08:47 AM	#630
aconeski New Member 0 Rep 7 Posts Drives: 2008 m3 1995 m3 Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: New York iTrader: (0)	BE Rod bolts Hi guys, I purchased what are supposed to be BE Rod bolts from ECS tuning but the socket size is 7/16. Did BE change their size from 3/8 to 7/16 or did ECS package the wrong bolts? They came with BE installation instructions IE 50 ft/lbs. as apposed to 60 ft/lbs. Thanks.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-30-2020, 07:14 PM	#631
Edberto #BorstenBartRacing 26 Rep 136 Posts Drives: BMW E90 M3 Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Tuscaloosa, AL iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 BMW E90 M3 Clu ... [0.00]	Sounds like the APR 625+ bolts I have in (also 7/16) instead of the APR2000 (3/8) that most of the guys here got and used. Take a look at the head and you will know for sure
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-03-2020, 12:55 PM	#633
aconeski New Member 0 Rep 7 Posts Drives: 2008 m3 1995 m3 Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: New York iTrader: (0)	Thanks for the replies. They are stamped ARP BE 2000 so I torqued them to 50. Maybe BE changed their size. I have a Hypothetically question. If the bearings were not seated right IE - locator tabs not in place do you think that would restrict crack movement? And or would the rod caps still appear seamless once torqued? Maybe crank the engine by hand one full rotation before starting is a good way for people to check bearing seat? I've always wondered about this because it's hard to see how well the upper bearings are seated when you're installing them. Thoughts?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

05-03-2020, 01:56 PM	#634
pbonsalb Lieutenant General 5234 Rep 10,614 Posts Drives: 18 F90 M5, 99 E36 M3 Turbo Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: New England iTrader: (4)	Feel free to do a couple of revolutions by hand. If the plugs are in, don’t worry when the effort increases near tdc.
	Appreciate 1 Scharbag2620.50 Quote

05-30-2020, 02:47 PM	#636
schlichtm3 Driver 157 Rep 155 Posts Drives: M4 Competition 2019 Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	Thanks for DIY was a very very Good help for me, so i changed my today... Attached Images
	Appreciate 2 SYT_Shadow11481.00 tigermack474.50 Quote

06-05-2020, 11:51 AM	#638
frankc Private 23 Rep 75 Posts Drives: 1998 E36 M3/4, 2011 E90 M3 ZCP Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Austin, TX iTrader: (1)	Thanks for the DIY - I've read through it (and watched many videos) several times, and it will certainly make this job much easier. I finally acquired a set of BE rod bearings and I'm now assembling the parts and tools I need for this job. The one question I have is regarding the 12mm socket for the OEM rod bolts. In this thread the terms 12pt, bi-hex and double-hex are used - but I believe these all refer to the same fastener type with a 120* angle on the point. This is different than a triple-square with a 90* angle. So my question is - is the head on the OEM rod bolt a double-hex or triple-square? I can't really tell from the photo I saw posted in this thread. You can read more on the differences in this thread: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/...d.php?t=406007
	Appreciate 0 Quote