Another S65 engine ticking noise

[Scrippy]

Originally Posted by ajlyu

Hello all!

I made an account just to reply to this thread, I'll keep everyone updated until this issue is fully resolved

So far the diagnostic by the shop is as follows:
1. Definitely not rod bearing failure
2. Sound isn't coming from the internal parts of the engine
3. Sound appears to be coming near the intake manifold area

This is the preliminary comments on the sound, I will be bringing my car back to the shop next week, to which they'll be taking off the plenum to further inspect where the sound might be coming from

To avoid any confusion, this is the sound I'm referring to:

A little info about my car:
-2010 E92 M2 (Pre LCI)
-Currently at 14k miles
-Been using Liqui Moly 10W60

Hope this helps and I'll keep everyone posted!

There it is! That's the fucking racket we all get. Mine has made this noise for years and it comes and goes. Really present in hot weather for me. My bank 1 EGR valve is throwing codes so I will be replacing both and the pipe itself coming from the pump. I really wonder if the valves are making this noise when they start to fail? I should be replacing mine in the next few weeks and I'll report back. They're located on the back corners of the motor and interface with the exhaust and the noise does seem more audible just behind the front tires:

[ajlyu]

Originally Posted by Scrippy

There it is! That's the fucking racket we all get. Mine has made this noise for years and it comes and goes. Really present in hot weather for me. My bank 1 EGR valve is throwing codes so I will be replacing both and the pipe itself coming from the pump. I really wonder if the valves are making this noise when they start to fail? I should be replacing mine in the next few weeks and I'll report back. They're located on the back corners of the motor and interface with the exhaust and the noise does seem more audible just behind the front tires:

Same!

Seems to only happen when the weather is warm, as the ticking doesn't seem to be present when the weather is significantly cooler. (Fall, winter, spring)

Keep us posted

[nick3753]

I hate this noise. I've had it for at least 6 years especially in the summer. It's embarrassing.

[Assimilator1]

Originally Posted by ajlyu

Hello all!

I made an account just to reply to this thread, I'll keep everyone updated until this issue is fully resolved

So far the diagnostic by the shop is as follows:
1. Definitely not rod bearing failure
2. Sound isn't coming from the internal parts of the engine
3. Sound appears to be coming near the intake manifold area

This is the preliminary comments on the sound, I will be bringing my car back to the shop next week, to which they'll be taking off the plenum to further inspect where the sound might be coming from

To avoid any confusion, this is the sound I'm referring to:

A little info about my car:
-2010 E92 M2 (Pre LCI)
-Currently at 14k miles
-Been using Liqui Moly 10W60

Hope this helps and I'll keep everyone posted!

Sound isn't coming from the internal parts of the engine
I disagree as it still sounds like a (intermittently) slack hydraulic tappet (follower) to me. And yea the noise would be particularly loud by the plenum chamber.
Anyway, cheers for the video and keep us posted .

I wonder, has anyone tried using an oil flush to see if that fixes it?

[ajlyu]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

Sound isn't coming from the internal parts of the engine
I disagree as it still sounds like a (intermittently) slack hydraulic tappet (follower) to me. And yea the noise would be particularly loud by the plenum chamber.
Anyway, cheers for the video and keep us posted .

I wonder, has anyone tried using an oil flush to see if that fixes it?

Will do!

Interesting, I'll also suggest your idea to the shop when I drop off my car this Thursday

[ajlyu]

*Important update*

We found it! It was the valve lifters causing the tick!

A bottle of lifter additive with a bit of driving and the noise is completely gone! Woohoo!

[meko]

Originally Posted by ajlyu

*Important update*

We found it! It was the valve lifters causing the tick!

A bottle of lifter additive with a bit of driving and the noise is completely gone! Woohoo!

[QUOTE=ajlyu;27944032]
What's the long term fix if any?

[ajlyu]

[QUOTE=meko;27944845]

Originally Posted by ajlyu

What's the long term fix if any?

I think spirited driving here and there would probably help, build up proper oil pressure to make sure all components are well lubricated. This should minimize the chance of the tick coming back, given that it's been rectified

[Eja144]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

Still 10w-60?

Yup, still 10W-60. It makes zero rational sense, but my car seems to like BMW oil the best.

The only thing I did differently for this oil change is pour most of the last liter of fresh oil directly into the filter housing. I can't imagine that made any difference, but maybe?

[Assimilator1]

I wouldn't have thought so, maybe different additives help??

Originally Posted by ajlyu

*Important update*

We found it! It was the valve lifters causing the tick!

A bottle of lifter additive with a bit of driving and the noise is completely gone! Woohoo!

Ha! I was right! Do I get a medal?

By 'a bit of driving', do you mean plenty of redlining? But did you used to rev it high anyway?

[ajlyu]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

I wouldn't have thought so, maybe different additives help??



Ha! I was right! Do I get a medal?

By 'a bit of driving', do you mean plenty of redlining? But did you used to rev it high anyway?

You were definitely spot on!

I never rev'ed mine high plus I barely drove it, so I suspect that might've been the reason that caused the tick

[Assimilator1]

It might not have caused the tick, but it may have prevented you from clearing it.
Hot temps and high revs alone can sometimes clear this type of problem (although I've largely only personally come across this problem after when heads have been fully stripped, and after running up, some hydraulic tappets (lifters) seem to be reluctant to bleed off air (I assume) even after reaching running temps, revving it high cleared those). 1 other time I came across it was from a '92 Ford Sierra I owned (not a Cossie sadly ), when it got to within about a 1000 miles or so of needing a service, 1 tappet would rattle on a cold start up for about 5s. After a couple of services getting that I switched from the OEM spec'd 10w40 to 5w40, I never had that problem again .

Btw the noise is caused by the tappet failing to take up all the slack quickly enough, this can be caused be either too much oil bleeding off, or the oil not 'filling up' the tappet quickly enough.

[ajlyu]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

It might not have caused the tick, but it may have prevented you from clearing it.
Hot temps and high revs alone can sometimes clear this type of problem (although I've largely only personally come across this problem after when heads have been fully stripped, and after running up some hydraulic tappets (lifters) seem to be reluctant to bleed off air (I assume) even after reaching running temps, revving it high cleared those. 1 other time I came across it was from a '92 Ford Sierra I owned (not a Cossie sadly ), when it got to within about a 1000 miles or so of needing a service 1 tappet would rattle on a cold start up for about 5s. After a couple of services getting that I switched from the OEM spec'd 10w40 to 5w40, I never had that problem again .

Btw the noise is caused by the tappet failing to take up all the slack quickly enough, this can be caused be either too much oil bleeding off, or the oil not 'filling up' the tappet quickly enough.

Spot on

Also another alternative that could be considered is doing an oil flush, put in new oil then add the lifter additive. This should make everything even cleaner, which hopefully also reduces the chance of the lifter tick coming back

[endur0]

Adding a data point: I recently noticed mine has an intermittent ticking noise at idle, and it's modulated by turning off or turning on my AC. Sounds very similar to the 'typewriter noise' my diesel makes (which is confirmed correlated to recent oil changes, and documented in a GM TSB regarding oil and crank journals, google LBZ typewriter noise).

Turn AC off, it stops, turn AC on, it happens. I tried revving the S65 to the same RPM as AC on idle and can't get it to do it with AC off. I'll grab a vid of it & post up, and will also report back if I find it actually isn't correlated to AC status.

[Assimilator1]

Only with AC on? Maybe a problem with the compressor? Well, we'll see with your video maybe.

Is this the TSB for the LBZ you had in mind?
If so that bulletin seems like a complete fudge! Basically, they either don't know, or that their engines are poorly made that they knock like that! lol

[nick3753]

Originally Posted by ajlyu

*Important update*

We found it! It was the valve lifters causing the tick!

A bottle of lifter additive with a bit of driving and the noise is completely gone! Woohoo!

Tick still gone?

[endur0]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

Only with AC on? Maybe a problem with the compressor? Well, we'll see with your video maybe.

Is this the TSB for the LBZ you had in mind?
If so that bulletin seems like a complete fudge! Basically, they either don't know, or that their engines are poorly made that they knock like that! lol

Yeah, I think my M3 is likely compressor though I haven't heard a compressor making such a high frequency periodic tick before. I'll try to get a vid in the next week or so.

And yep, that's the TSB. I hear you, but I'm inclined to believe them given the symptoms. It's absolutely correlated to the first few hundred miles after an oil change which is consistent with something oil related. Sounds metallic, but doesn't sound metallic. Very unique sound and really common on them. Truck's been doing it since new, 198k miles now.

edit, now with vid:

edit edit: i can't get this site to stop adding url tags to my vimeo link, even using the 'vimeo' button.

https://vimeo.com/602833748/e617c2be6e


Sound in question is intermittent broad specturm (and high frequency) tick.

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[remi34000]

hello everyone, for several weeks I can hear an engine tick for the first few seconds when cold starting. Sometimes more or less strong and for a longer or shorter time. Do you have an idea of ​​the problem ? My car has 125kkm with a melody without cold start procedure

https://youtube.com/shorts/sWyMrVsll_4?feature=share

[Assimilator1]

Melody?? Oh, lol, I got ya, you mean engine tune
I didn't hear any ticking in your video....[edit] actually on 2nd and 3rd viewing, yes I can, but only barely, the (lovely sounding ) exhaust is mostly drowning it out though, I'm not very good at separating sounds of nearly the same volume.

enduro
Could be the same problem as ajlyu had, doesn't sound like a typical AC compressor noise, but never say never! Although you say it only occurs with the AC on??
At the time that it occurs, if you blip the throttle a little bit (say to 2000 RPM or so), does it get louder as the revs rise and quieten down as the revs drop? (with a bigger difference the quicker the acceleration?). Or is it equally loud as you go up and down the revs?
Btw, I hope that's a track tyre we can see, it's in a terrible state otherwise!

PS This is one of those forever threads!

[endur0]

@Assimilator1 -- pretty confident mine is AC related. Correlates perfectly with turning compressor off and on, as in the vid; I've tried it several times since I first noticed it. Will report back if something changes (like I can get it to manifest with compressor off) and/or if the compressor takes a dump. Does not behave like rod bearing noise (what you're describing).

Car did a HPDE today, those are SC3R and they're about 2/3 thru their life, and spend most of their life on the track. If you look closely, you can see the feathering; most of what looks ugly are the rubber 'worms' I picked up when I exited the pit area today; they're actually wearing pretty nicely.

Unrelated to the noise mine's making, I'm installing some BE bearings in ~1.5 weeks, will report back in the bearings thread with condition of the old bearings. They've had a long life, blackstone reports have been great, but it's time.

[Assimilator1]

Rod bearing noise was one of the noises I was describing, the other is tappet/lifter noise (which is noisy on the falling as well as rising revs).

What's HPDE?
And SC3R? Track tyres?

Look forwards to seeing your old bearings!

[endur0]

high performance driving event (track day), (goodyear) supercar 3R