Car Magazine shootout: e92 M3 / GT-R / 911 turbo / R8 (16 page review)

[ArtPE]

Originally Posted by gbb357

Another thing that i realize Art, when 5th Gear tested the ISF, Tiff mentioned the the ISF being heavier buy 20 kilograms, which is about 44lbs. The point is, the IS-F is 3780lbs in their website and the M3 sedan in BMWusa.com is 3736lbs, so it is possible that the weight on the BMWusa website is accurate. Because no way that the ISF is less than 3700lbs.

I've seen 2 weights for scale weighed euro coupes
3562
3571

have never seen one for the sedan, although BMW says it will be ~25 lbs heavier...

the US cars will be heavier, but not much...the only major change I'm aware of is the door reinforcement, and that may be standard now...

options will change the weight....

I'm guessing the average car will weigh ~3620 give or take
not bad since the euro C63 was weighed at 4040

[enigma]

Originally Posted by ArtPE

I've seen 2 weights for scale weighed euro coupes
3562
3571

have never seen one for the sedan, although BMW says it will be ~25 lbs heavier...

the US cars will be heavier, but not much...the only major change I'm aware of is the door reinforcement, and that may be standard now...

Its also possible the US car includes the sunroof weight as part of the base weight of the car. Were the referenced cars about weighed with full fuel? Anything else in them?

[Jack28]

Originally Posted by GewoW

I'm very sorry, but as much as I love the article and it's great and all...it's a little bogus to me. I highly doubt the GTR would beat the Turbo...and yes, I know it did on the ring...that's not my point. My point is that, if any of you saw the video for part of this review, you would see that this idiot test driver, I don't care how good he is, CANNOT drive a porsche correctly. Is this saying I can? No. It's saying that seeing him over-steer when he's trying for a fast lap is idiotic. The Turbo has such immense traction, and if you don't know how to trail-brake, ESPECIALLY with a Porsche, which he obviously didn't, you end up with slow times. If he actually drove the Porsche well, then I'm pretty sure it would have a much better time, if not beat the GTR by a very small margin of <1 sec.

Sorry for the rant guys, I just don't like comparisons based on lack of PORSCHE (not general) driving skills.

Agreed, They were not driving the best out of the P-car. That car is a beast!
I have driven my Friends 997tt and its like its on rails on the corners plus the
power is scary fast!

Its really honoring to know that the lowest PRICED and the Lowest HP car in
the comparison Held its own to the FULLEST and was the fastest in some areas of the track! Just for that it should have went to the M3 IMHO!
It still came in 2nd which is Still fucking BADASS guys! That seriously means
alot for being the car at the end of the line with the Lowest HP & Price!
Im really happy with how the M3 Held it down!! Props to the M3!!!!


Here are the Vids of the Challenge at the Track:

Part 1: http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Video/S...e/?&R=EPI-5565

Part 2: http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Video/S...m/?&R=EPI-5574

[devo]

Originally Posted by Ronno111

I am quite happy that the M3 came out #2 of the 4 cars- being considered the "cheapest" of the bunch. Unfortunately, the conditions on this track were not optimal for the M3 against AWD vehicles. Quite honestly, who drives like a nut on wet roads anyway.

4.6 sec for the M3 beats the last test of 5.3 and scored as low as 4.1 in the CD shootout. The 6mt is unpredictable and I am glad I am waiting on the DCT. I really wish BMW got their act together and released a bunch of these cars for shootout purposes.

If the DCT is all they say it is, this car can do 60 in under 4 every single time, just like the GTR. I am sorry, I don't care about the numbers but the GTR does not do it for me at all and never will. The M3 is right up there with the best and baddest. It now has a place in history and has not even come out yet. I am pumped to drive this beast, I hope to G-d that none of you changed your orders to this atrocious looking GTR based on numbers so close that us normal guys can likely ever achieve behind the wheel.

M-DCT will not help the M run with the GT-R nor 6MT 997tt. Although, 3-4 tenths are very close in real life, it takes a lot to shave 3-4 tenths from a 60 mph run, especially when the starting point is under 4 seconds. Any runs to 100 or beyond and the M, DCT or not, will be way behind. Any average driver will be able to achieve this. The numbers that normal guys will likely never achieve, as you say, are relative. If the GT-R's numbers are above normal (driver) then so are the M's. You do not have to like the GT-R but the M3 (Great car that it is.) is clearly out gunned in this test. It does not even belong in this company.

[bmwzimmer]

The GT-R's numbers acceleration numbers are not "above normal". Any girl can hit those 0-60 numbers drinking a soda since the car has the launch control feature....

[devo]

Originally Posted by bmwzimmer

The GT-R's numbers acceleration numbers are not "above normal". Any girl can hit those 0-60 numbers drinking a soda since the car has the launch control feature....

LOL. Very true. Stomp and go!

Where I see cars like the GT-R and 997tt mashing most of the competition on the street is from any type of roll on. I could care less about 0-60 times, they are meaningsless, imo. Frankly, I do not even care much about any times from the dig as I do not drive that way. So, to me, any roll on from say, 10 or 20, even 50, whatever, is what excites me about straight line speed. Coming out of a corner, hard on the throttle and feeling that rush! This is where GT-Rs and 997tts excel.

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by devo

LOL. Very true. Stomp and go!

Where I see cars like the GT-R and 997tt mashing most of the competition on the street is from any type of roll on. I could care less about 0-60 times, they are meaningsless, imo. Frankly, I do not even care much about any times from the dig as I do not drive that way. So, to me, any roll on from say, 10 or 20, even 50, whatever, is what excites me about straight line speed. Coming out of a corner, hard on the throttle and feeling that rush! This is where GT-Rs and 997tts excel.

Nice way of putting it!!! I agree!!

[dechoong]

Originally Posted by devo

LOL. Very true. Stomp and go!

Where I see cars like the GT-R and 997tt mashing most of the competition on the street is from any type of roll on. I could care less about 0-60 times, they are meaningsless, imo. Frankly, I do not even care much about any times from the dig as I do not drive that way. So, to me, any roll on from say, 10 or 20, even 50, whatever, is what excites me about straight line speed. Coming out of a corner, hard on the throttle and feeling that rush! This is where GT-Rs and 997tts excel.

In gear acceleration... that is when FI cars with huge torque thrives . I think the 997tt is slightly faster against the GT-R in a straight line.

[devo]

Originally Posted by dechoong

In gear acceleration... that is when FI cars with huge torque thrives . I think the 997tt is slightly faster against the GT-R in a straight line.

I agree that the 997tt will be faster in any roll on. Again, another manufacturer's creative marketing hype that the GT-R will best the 911tt in every discipline. There are two reasons that the GT-R currently beats out the tt: it is very underrated and it has launch control with DSG. Even with DSG, I believe that the tt will beat the GT-R in most roll on sitiuations.

BTW, I realize that both of these cars are tts, but there is only one tt in my book and it is not the GT-R. Even though I am buying the GT-R, I am not dilusional. Oh, I did learn today that my GT-R will be here by July at the lastest, maybe June.

[dechoong]

Originally Posted by devo

I agree that the 997tt will be faster in any roll on. Again, another manufacturer's creative marketing hype that the GT-R will best the 911tt in every discipline. There are two reasons that the GT-R currently beats out the tt: it is very underrated and it has launch control with DSG. Even with DSG, I believe that the tt will beat the GT-R in most roll on sitiuations.

BTW, I realize that both of these cars are tts, but there is only one tt in my book and it is not the GT-R. Even though I am buying the GT-R, I am not dilusional. Oh, I did learn today that my GT-R will be here by July at the lastest, maybe June.

The 997tt VTG turbocharger is way more advanced than the GT-R's conventional unit, which allows the tt to spread its maximum torque across a wide range of rpm (1900-5000). Added on the fact the tt is significantly lighter than the GT-R, the tt will pull away in a rolling start quite convincingly. The GT-R's advantage is its greater stability through corners which allows it to carry more speed into, and out of corners.

I'm not taking away anything from the GT-R... it will crush any competitor within its price range and than some. Looking forward to see some pics of your new car in June/July

[devo]

Originally Posted by dechoong

The 997tt VTG turbocharger is way more advanced than the GT-R's conventional unit, which allows the tt to spread its maximum torque across a wide range of rpm (1900-5000). Added on the fact the tt is significantly lighter than the GT-R, the tt will pull away in a rolling start quite convincingly. The GT-R's advantage is its greater stability through corners which allows it to carry more speed into, and out of corners.

I'm not taking away anything from the GT-R... it will crush any competitor within its price range and than some. Looking forward to see some pics of your new car in June/July

Agreed, that Porsche's VTG technology is far superior, at least on paper, but I have to say that it is not all that Porsche claims that it to be. Porsche claims to have eliminated lag, when in fact it still very much existed in my car. Other 997tt owners have complained of the same thing. Also, I am not so confident that the torque spread is realized so easily on the street. I used the overboost function many times and never felt as though my car was getting that much torque @1950 rpms. I am not the first to be suspect of Porsche's VTG turbo marketing. By comparison, my 335 coupe has less lag than my 997tt did. That may be due to the smaller turbos in the 335, I am unsure?

[gbb357]

Originally Posted by devo

I agree that the 997tt will be faster in any roll on. Again, another manufacturer's creative marketing hype that the GT-R will best the 911tt in every discipline. There are two reasons that the GT-R currently beats out the tt: it is very underrated and it has launch control with DSG. Even with DSG, I believe that the tt will beat the GT-R in most roll on sitiuations.

BTW, I realize that both of these cars are tts, but there is only one tt in my book and it is not the GT-R. Even though I am buying the GT-R, I am not dilusional. Oh, I did learn today that my GT-R will be here by July at the lastest, maybe June.

It might not be under-rated after all. Check out this article from MotorAuthority.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...44#post2300744

[footie]

VTG technology maybe in the next big thing to hit the turbo world but Porsche's application of it isn't showing the technology to it's full potentional. If you look at the graph from the above link you will see that while the 997tt has a much broarder torque range it actually only has more torque at the lower rev range, the GTR has more torque from beyond the 3600rpm point and this continues up the whole way to each of their respective rev limits. Also beyond this point (3600rpm) the GTR has for the most part the stronger hp figures as well.

You may say that in the long run VTG will prove to be the future but at the present it doesn't look to be showing any meaningful advantage over the traditional turbo.

[ersin]

Originally Posted by gbb357

It might not be under-rated after all. Check out this article from MotorAuthority.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...44#post2300744

What I get from this is that the even though there's less of it, the torque curve of M3 looks mighty flat compared to those turbo'ed cars. NA FTW.

[UgotSpank]

Originally Posted by E82tt6

You won't see it soon, because the Z06 will light it up like a candle.

Easy there mate, your American Z06 just got spank badly by GTR, That's all Folks!

GTR
Z06

[10M3owner]

I had the chance to drive a used GT-R the other day. Seemed much quicker than my M3! Wouldn't trade straight across though. I'm a couple of years from 50 and 205 lbs and simply don't fit in this car. I am 6 feet tall and not obese. The Nissan seats were cramped and the interior felt cheap. The transmission sounded like a kid shaking coins in a can. Ferociously quick. I almost bought one from Power Nissan in Chandler AZ for 3k back of sticker but I'm so glad I didn't! Quality of build is so much better in the Beemer. I'll stick with the BMW 1000rr for my real need for speed and keep the M3 for my everyday fun car!