EDC in M3 E92

[Sirius Black]

I have EDC on my E90. On the stock springs I found Sport to be too stiff unless the road was perfectly smooth. On the Rd Sport Spings the sport setting is great unless in the city, or on a very rough road. I do enjoy the option of the soft setting when doing less than sprited driving. Otherwise I am usually on Sport, using normal just when the road surface is a touch choppy.

Unless I planned to do a full coilover set up, I would choose EDC again.

[checkmate]

Don't have EDC and no complains. I plan on installing coilovers down the road.

[speedaddictM3]

Weird that people are choosing softer settings for the track. I find Comfort mode to be terrible on the track, the car feels like a Cadillac, and the suspension becomes way too soft to keep the car planted. Normal feels a bit better, but still slow to react during fast transitions. I prefer sport mode since it keeps that fat pig of a car relatively stable in turns and helps control body roll.

[VtecforV8]

Someone with more knowledge correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that on non-ZCP cars, only the "Normal" mode is dynamic. I think "Sport" is ~80% stiffness, 100% of the time (i.e., regardless of road condition, slip angle, body roll angle, etc.) and "Normal" is capable of dialing down the stiffness to as soft as it would be in "Comfort", but also of ratcheting up the stiffness to a maximum of 100% stiffness, when conditions require. Effectively, this means that Normal can be, at times, stiffer than "Sport." I guess that on ZCP cars, "Sport" mode is also dynamic, meaning that it has a stiffer base-line than "Normal," plus the ability to reduce/increase stiffness as required.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by VtecforV8

Someone with more knowledge correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that on non-ZCP cars, only the "Normal" mode is dynamic. I think "Sport" is ~80% stiffness, 100% of the time (i.e., regardless of road condition, slip angle, body roll angle, etc.) and "Normal" is capable of dialing down the stiffness to as soft as it would be in "Comfort", but also of ratcheting up the stiffness to a maximum of 100% stiffness, when conditions require. Effectively, this means that Normal can be, at times, stiffer than "Sport." I guess that on ZCP cars, "Sport" mode is also dynamic, meaning that it has a stiffer base-line than "Normal," plus the ability to reduce/increase stiffness as required.

You are correct. On non-ZCP, the EDC "Sport" mode is not dynamic.

As for comfort being better on the track, I can see the logic in it. You will actually get more feedback and can adjust accordingly.

[NYBulldog]

Loved EDC and it worked nicely with the EDC-specific H&R Springs. If you have every intention of getting a full coilover system though its seems like money wasted.

[mdosu]

Originally Posted by VtecforV8

Someone with more knowledge correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that on non-ZCP cars, only the "Normal" mode is dynamic. I think "Sport" is ~80% stiffness, 100% of the time (i.e., regardless of road condition, slip angle, body roll angle, etc.) and "Normal" is capable of dialing down the stiffness to as soft as it would be in "Comfort", but also of ratcheting up the stiffness to a maximum of 100% stiffness, when conditions require. Effectively, this means that Normal can be, at times, stiffer than "Sport." I guess that on ZCP cars, "Sport" mode is also dynamic, meaning that it has a stiffer base-line than "Normal," plus the ability to reduce/increase stiffness as required.

From how I understand it, with non-zcp, normal and comfort are dynamic. The default on those settings are set at each respective stiffness. When road change, the stiffness can soften or stiffen up at different rates and stiffness. This is achieved by changing the orifcaces of the valving inside the shock which alters the flow rate of the fluid inside the shock. Normal's orifices likely are smaller as a default and expand the orifaces at a slower rate and to a smaller opening size than comfort.

You are correct that Sport is at it's stiffest 100% of the time and simply operates like a standard damper. The default orifaces openings in the shock doesn't change. Or if it does change depending on speed or other conditions, it operates much like a standard mechanical unit.

On ZCP cars, Sport becomes dynamic. The default opening of the orifaces are smaller and adjustments in the opening will be smaller.

All the computations of the rate of change, the opening size, and when orifaces are opening and closing are determined by the ecu as it monitors the cars speed and tire load.

I suspect EDC effectively can create a situation of semi independent compression and rebound characteristics. Though it couldn't be fine tuned by the driver like true race shocks.

The best part about it EDC is that it can provide optimal braking in distressed situations, by managing load in the front, and distributing the cars dive. This will enhance the effectiveness of the ABS.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197521
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/car-suspension2.htm

[zonda600]

I bought my M3 used and it has EDC. If it were a stand alone option, I would not choose to pay for it, simply because it's unnecessary. I almost never drive in any mode but comfort because the others are too harsh on public roads. There is a noticeable increase in sharpness, but it won't offer any performance increase and the car really crashes over bumps in the stiffest setting. Adaptive dampers would be great, but EDC is just meh.

[elitex]

I like Dynamic dampers but if I was hitting the track regularly then I would go aftermarket. Linear rate springs FTW!

[i001947]

Personally, I like it for the option of choosing the different road conditions to adjust to.

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by VtecforV8

Someone with more knowledge correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that on non-ZCP cars, only the "Normal" mode is dynamic. I think "Sport" is ~80% stiffness, 100% of the time (i.e., regardless of road condition, slip angle, body roll angle, etc.) and "Normal" is capable of dialing down the stiffness to as soft as it would be in "Comfort", but also of ratcheting up the stiffness to a maximum of 100% stiffness, when conditions require. Effectively, this means that Normal can be, at times, stiffer than "Sport." I guess that on ZCP cars, "Sport" mode is also dynamic, meaning that it has a stiffer base-line than "Normal," plus the ability to reduce/increase stiffness as required.

This is correct except that on non-ZCP, both Normal AND Comfort are dynamic. Sport is not, however; to get dynamic Sport you need ZCP.

[jphughan]

I have EDC on a non-ZCP car. I have not tried an M3 without EDC, but I will give you my thoughts:

- First, as others said, it you'll be getting coilovers, skip EDC. It will just make life more problematic, and chances are you'll end up nullifying it anyway and either having to purchase an electronic EDC emulator to avoid triggering fault codes or get someone who knows how to remove EDC from the car's VO so that it thinks it's not supposed to have EDC installed at all.

- When toggling between Comfort and Sport just for fun, it's amazing to me that this one car is capable of riding so differently at the push of a button. Comfort is a firm but not at all harsh ride, whereas Sport is downright punishing on even average quality roads.

- On the road during casual driving I always use Comfort because it's, well, comfortable. When I've tried toggling between Comfort and Normal, I can't reliably tell a difference when I'm just driving casually.

- When I drive more aggressively on back roads, if I forget to switch from Comfort to Normal, I can tell immediately because the car just doesn't feel as planted in the corners. At that point I switch to Normal and the car feels fantastic.

- On the track I've only ever used Normal because in an interview when ZCP was launched, a BMW suspension engineer mentioned that if you DON'T have ZCP, he recommended using Normal on tracks with elevation changes (because it's dynamic) and using Sport only for completely flat tracks (since it's not). I don't run any completely flat tracks.

Again, not having tested a non-EDC car I can't compare the feel of the two or confidently say that I feel that EDC is worth the extra cash, but I do know that I enjoy having it for the reasons stated above and I don't feel my money was wasted on this option (like I kind of do with BMW Apps).

[mdosu]

Originally Posted by jphughan

I have EDC on a non-ZCP car. I have not tried an M3 without EDC, but I will give you my thoughts:

- First, as others said, it you'll be getting coilovers, skip EDC. It will just make life more problematic, and chances are you'll end up nullifying it anyway and either having to purchase an electronic EDC emulator to avoid triggering fault codes or get someone who knows how to remove EDC from the car's VO so that it thinks it's not supposed to have EDC installed at all.

- When toggling between Comfort and Sport just for fun, it's amazing to me that this one car is capable of riding so differently at the push of a button. Comfort is a firm but not at all harsh ride, whereas Sport is downright punishing on even average quality roads.

- On the road during casual driving I always use Comfort because it's, well, comfortable. When I've tried toggling between Comfort and Normal, I can't reliably tell a difference when I'm just driving casually.

- When I drive more aggressively on back roads, if I forget to switch from Comfort to Normal, I can tell immediately because the car just doesn't feel as planted in the corners. At that point I switch to Normal and the car feels fantastic.

- On the track I've only ever used Normal because in an interview when ZCP was launched, a BMW suspension engineer mentioned that if you DON'T have ZCP, he recommended using Normal on tracks with elevation changes (because it's dynamic) and using Sport only for completely flat tracks (since it's not). I don't run any completely flat tracks.

Again, not having tested a non-EDC car I can't compare the feel of the two or confidently say that I feel that EDC is worth the extra cash, but I do know that I enjoy having it for the reasons stated above and I don't feel my money was wasted on this option (like I kind of do with BMW Apps).

Rather you likely would want the constant adjustments from EDC when your track surfaces are not smooth or has significant banking angles. When you say flat did you mean hills or smoothness?

[mdosu]

BTW guys, if you really want to feel EDC in action this is what you do:

1. drive in a straight line at a slow speed ~ 15 mph
2. drive on a smooth service, then over a speed bump, the higher the bump better.
3. don't turn the wheel, drive over bump with same consistent speed
4. repeat on each setting, you can tell the difference in default stiffness and the shock's compression and rebound reactions' speed and "aggressiveness".

EDC adjustments made by the ECU is the most pronounced at slower speeds, straight wheel angle, and with a significant bump where the shocks are going through a longer travel.

[mdosu]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

i agree with what some of the other track rats have said here. it has no value if you track your car, stiff made me slower as well and felt normal was the best setting at the track. which is what you get without edc. if you dont track it may actually be more worth it that if you do. as mdosu said you can make the suspension squishy and compliant for tooling around town.


stiff on edc to me feels like it only effects rebound and made the car choppy without being able to absorb compressions any better. actually makes car handle worse in most track situations. for that you need stiffer compression and low and high speed.

If I were BMW, on a ZCP sport setting, I would adjust compression and rebound separately at different rates, depending on car's suspension load at each corner and speed. Who's going to tune these settings into the ECU? I don't know, Joey Hand?

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by mdosu

Rather you likely would want the constant adjustments from EDC when your track surfaces are not smooth or has significant banking angles. When you say flat did you mean hills or smoothness?

Sorry for the ambiguity, the suspension engineer said to use Sport on a non-ZCP car only for tracks with no elevation changes.

[JonNYC]

no idea if it -actually- makes a difference (although I do think I recall seeing it in the owners manual) but I go from comfort-> sport when I'm pulling out of a steep curb-cut/driveway/etc as-- at least in my mind-- makes me less likely to bottom out on same.

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by JonNYC

no idea if it -actually- makes a difference (although I do think I recall seeing it in the owners manual) but I go from comfort-> sport when I'm pulling out of a steep curb-cut/driveway/etc as-- at least in my mind-- makes me less likely to bottom out on same.

It does make a difference, and you did read about it, though it would've been the Supplement and not the owner's manual. The reason is that making rebound faster (as happens in Sport) means the suspension spends less time compressed and therefore the body spends less time closer to the ground. The tradeoff of course is that fast rather than gradual suspension recovery makes for a harsher ride. Although if I understand EDC and general suspension correctly, setting it to Sport won't limit how far the suspension compresses (that would require dynamically adjustable springs), just how long it stays that way -- so if you're going to scrape the bottom of your car, you'll do it regardless of EDC mode, the scrape just won't last as long in Sport.

[Edward]

So what this thread is telling me is that having my EDC button on my ZCP car defaulted to one LED light on (normal), my car is dynamically adjusting to the shitty LA streets?

And please clarify but I want to make sure we are all apples to apples. I always assumed no LED lights on means comfort and two lights on is sport. Correct?

For the purposes of daily driving, this suspension is far more sophisticated than I even imagined and further makes me face palm when people start slapping crappy springs and new dampeners on their car without the intent to turn it into a dedicated track car.

[mdosu]

Originally Posted by Edward

So what this thread is telling me is that having my EDC button on my ZCP car defaulted to one LED light on (normal), my car is dynamically adjusting to the shitty LA streets?

And please clarify but I want to make sure we are all apples to apples. I always assumed no LED lights on means comfort and two lights on is sport. Correct?

For the purposes of daily driving, this suspension is far more sophisticated than I even imagined and further makes me face palm when people start slapping crappy springs and new dampeners on their car without the intent to turn it into a dedicated track car.

yep, I think EDC and most e-dampers out there (Magnetic for Caddy and Ferraris) are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

As I have said, the best part about EDC is that it can provide optimal braking in distressed situations, by managing load in the front, and distributing the car's dive. This will enhance the effectiveness of the ABS. Will braking performance be measurable? Perhaps in simulation, b/c there's a bunch of other factors involved in braking. I think EDC helps the most when you're braking hard while the car is still turning (most distressed street driving scenarios)


IMO, No face palm needed only if:
You're a track rat, and buy some $10k Moton suspension that allows driver to independently dial in compression and rebound settings.

Else, sport springs, drop springs, only serves to drop the suspension and stiffen the ride, it doesn't necessarily improve track handling, and at best can only duplicate the final performance (as measured by track times) of stock EDC programs. I doubt any of it can be measurable b/c the driver is the biggest variable (it's incredibly hard to duplicate your laps back to back), and changing the overall stiffness with aftermarket springs will be to suit an individual driver's preferences for the car's feel, not performance.

Finally, the club racers (most HPDE guys) who buy the $2k-$4k KW V3 or Bilstein coilovers are likely doing it for that consistency the mechanical club racer shocks give you in terms of compression and rebound dynamics.

And remember the EDC settings are pre-programmed for a compliant street and sporty street driving where 95% of the aggregate worldwide owners' car's life will be spent doing. Why mess with it, and come out of your car with a pulverized pelvis and a crushed skeleton with a "stiffer" suspension?

I know I'm going to get flamed for the latter part of the comments, but wuteva I say what I want!


If you really want to blow your mind, read about the magnetic shocks in Caddy and Ferrari. Instead of changing the orifice size in the shocks like what EDC does, metal in the shock's fluid (by sending an electric shock through the damper) is use to change the viscosity of the fluid itself thereby controlling the movement of the shock's piston as it moves through a thicker fluid! Seriously cool stuff.

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by Edward

So what this thread is telling me is that having my EDC button on my ZCP car defaulted to one LED light on (normal), my car is dynamically adjusting to the shitty LA streets?

And please clarify but I want to make sure we are all apples to apples. I always assumed no LED lights on means comfort and two lights on is sport. Correct?

For the purposes of daily driving, this suspension is far more sophisticated than I even imagined and further makes me face palm when people start slapping crappy springs and new dampeners on their car without the intent to turn it into a dedicated track car.

Yes, everything you said is correct. Fyi you can change the default EDC startup mode to Comfort if you'd like. Go into the M Drive settings, then hit the Options button, and changes you make under the M Key settings you'll find off to the right will affect the settings your car starts up with, NOT your M button settings. Sort of a counterintuitive interface, but there you go.

[Leonardo629]

It's really simple actually, if no coil overs are planned, then definitely get the EDC since you can really feel the difference.