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11-10-2017, 05:34 PM | #23 | |||
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I think there were some govt subsidies/incentives for using corn for biofuel, which caused some farms to switch the kind of corns they grow and caused some controversies (only some are suitable for human food, then there is the animal feed ones, and the ones that are only good for bio-fuel), it was too long ago and I couldn't remember the details
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11-10-2017, 05:59 PM | #24 |
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I have no problem whatsoever running Shell 93 10% ethanol in my M3, but I do run ethanol-free gas from a place down the road in a couple of old cars and all of my outdoor power equipment.
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11-10-2017, 06:15 PM | #25 |
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I don't really care. I'd rather burn 100% E85 though, since there is no E100 (or E99) available in the US, at least not on pumps.
Ethanol is a much better fuel power wise, but you spend more money to make that power. It also is a much cleaner fuel. It is extremely corrosive, but this is easy to fix. In reality, most cars shouldn't experience corrosion problems with the fuel system other than perhaps the fuel pump itself. I've been debating whether or not I should go with the Advanced Dynamics Flex system. I just can't justify the $1200 expense on it. |
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11-10-2017, 10:30 PM | #26 |
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so I shouldn't be putting in 94 Octane with no ethanol from Chevron
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11-10-2017, 11:10 PM | #27 | |
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Re: Energy independence. We are the Saudi Arabia of coal. We could be energy independent anytime there was a national will to be so. Coal makes good synthetic fuel. By the end of World War II, the Nazis were using it to fuel their entire war machine. There was an oil embargo on South Africa in the 70's due to apartheid. This forced the country into coal gasification. To this day they are using underground coal gasification to produce electricity. |
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11-13-2017, 08:08 AM | #28 | |
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11-13-2017, 09:26 AM | #29 | |
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As you stated, ethanol blends will have less energy density compared to refined gasoline. This means you need more injected volume of an ethanol blend to create an equivalent gasoline burn. That is why there is a very noticeable fuel economy penalty to running an ethanol blend. Octane is a major part of why there is more power potential in E85. The equivalent AKI is somewhere around 100-107 depending on winter/summer blend. If we focus just on the M3's S65/MSS60 DME, the optimum AKI is around 93-94 (equivalent to 98RON in Germany), so there is still a bulk of the country who is likely seeing ignition retard even when filling with premium gasoline (ie 91 octane in AZ/CA). If you combine E85 with a more aggressive tune, there is even more power potential above standard premium gasoline, and you can fuel from a pump at a reasonable per-gallon price. This is all in-line with what you said. Just explained for context. The other 'power-adder' aspect to ethanol blended fuels is the Latent-Heat reaction when the fuel changes phase from liquid to gaseous (port wetting/evaporation, pre-combustion mixing, etc). True E85 has about 300% more Latent-Heat of Evaporation, which has a significant cooling effect on both the mechanical components in the fuel path and the charge air. The charge air can be measured in principal; with a Delta-T of around 54 degrees F for pure gasoline, and a Delta-T of around 170 degrees F. That reduction in charge-air temperature is good for 5-8% power on its own, without any changes to ignition or combustion cycle. I would be cautious to confuse the subject of "energy density" with "power"; as you can argue to semantics of the chemistry terms people often use to make a point. But the bottom line is, ethanol blended fuels will make more power all-else-equal (Latent Heat) and have the potential to make a lot more power (higher AKI), when compared to standard gasoline.
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11-13-2017, 11:38 AM | #33 |
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The following is from High Octane Racing (proponents of E85):
E85 on average produces around 25 Mega Joules of Energy per litre of fuel, while normal 98 Octane petrol will normally produce in excess of 33 Mega Joules of Energy per litre so for this reason alone we will always use much more E85 fuel to achieve the same result. Because of the requirement for much higher fuel consumption it is normal practice to replace the whole fuel system in a performance application with much higher flowing components. If you required 600cc injectors and a 250litre per hour fuel pump with petrol, then it is fair to assume you will need at least 1000cc injectors and closer to 450 litre per hour fuel pump, but normally it is safer to go even bigger because as discussed earlier, you can now run even higher boost which in turn will require more fuel again. We highly recommend the Injector Dynamics brand of injector that come as a matched set. The long and the short of it is that it is possible to extract more power from E85 than from plain petrol, but it isn't as simple as just filling your tank with E85. |
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11-13-2017, 12:27 PM | #34 | |
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For the same reasons methanol makes more power than ethanol and gasoline. |
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11-13-2017, 12:30 PM | #35 |
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11-13-2017, 12:31 PM | #36 |
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11-13-2017, 12:36 PM | #38 |
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11-13-2017, 12:45 PM | #39 | |
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Now, if your butt dyno tells you that you make more power going from gas to 10% alky, than no, your dyno is no good. The difference in power in this case is pretty irrelevant. As far as show you any data to back up my claims, I am not claiming anything. I am just telling you what I know. But I can offer you a very simple whitepaper. http://www.pballandmore.com/Download...ce_Engines.pdf |
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11-13-2017, 12:51 PM | #40 | |
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I run 60% ethanol on a 98octane tune with proflex commander and put a bus length on the same car without it. Last edited by opihi5; 11-13-2017 at 01:04 PM.. |
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11-13-2017, 01:03 PM | #41 | |
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12-14-2017, 12:45 PM | #42 |
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I can certainly say I enjoy using the pure 93 super from the local vendor in Columbus, but I am very glad I got spared this technical lie:
http://ethanolproducer.com/articles/...-sold-in-texas Bucee's in Houston/Katy has been slipping as much as 12.5% isobutanol into it's "ethanol-free" gas, and charging $3.50+ per gallon. I hate it when this type of deception occurs...2 more carbon atoms to the ethanol molecular chain and they can legally sell it as having no ethanol. GM |
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12-14-2017, 02:19 PM | #43 |
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I use 93 octane E10 without worries. I drive my car daily and buy fuel weekly from a high volume station. As I understand the main problem with Ethanol is that it will absorb moisture over time and that becomes problematic. I use ethanol free fuel in my lawn equipment and things that fuel might sit in for a few weeks. If my M3 were a weekend/fair weather car, or if I were putting it away for winter storage I'd probably avoid E10 for the last few tanks. I've not seen or heard of many M3s with fuel system issues so it might not make a bit of difference in the long run.
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12-14-2017, 02:20 PM | #44 |
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I would be more concerned with getting the proper detergents and cleaning agents in the gas than corn juice.
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