Whos running Mobil 1 0w-40?

[Assimilator1]

Roger that on OEM bearing clearance.

Down to 10k OCI now? Interesting.

[nickauger]

I run castrol 5w50 or motul 5w50, my car did not consumme oil since i do 3-4k km oil change since its mostly a track car now. What i see is my car is way more rev happy with that weight of oil. Rev faster and stronger. I thought BMW run 10w60 because of 2 things : reduce oil consumption since they are using low friction piston ring and also keeping oil weight on very long 10k miles oil change. There no reason to go more than 5k miles on oil with a race engine like s65 if you want to keep your engine internal clean.

[Assimilator1]

10k OCI isn't long , but the original 15k was.

[nickauger]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

10k OCI isn't long , but the original 15k was.

You probably never done your own oil change. After 5k mine is black and smell fuel.

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by nickauger

You probably never done your own oil change. After 5k mine is black and smell fuel.

Did you get it tested for fuel dilution? I do oil changes at 8TKM intervals and my oil is not terribly black nor does it smell like fuel. I have had some samples tested and they are fine. Would be nice to know if you do have fuel dilution issues.

Cheers,

[Assimilator1]

Originally Posted by nickauger

You probably never done your own oil change. After 5k mine is black and smell fuel.

LMAO, obviously you can't know my background (although I don't hide it). But I've been a full time car mechanic for 25yrs and was an agricultural mechanic a few years before that. I've probably done more oil changes than you've had hot dinners! (unless you're much older than me, lol).

If your oil smells of petrol then their might be something wrong with your engine (as scharbag is alluding to), unless you do a lot of short journeys in it?
At 5k miles (with your typical car and average use) I would expect to see only slight darkening of the oil (petrol engines only). At 10-15k miles I would expect the oil to come out a very dark brown, depending on the engine.
You mention that your car is mostly a track car, so that would explain it being so dark at 5k miles. Btw, fair enough you change your oil at such short intervals due to that heavy use. My comment was directed more to typical use, say a few track days a year but otherwise normal driving, their 5k OCI would be pointless (unless it hits its time limit).
I still don't think that the oil should smell of fuel though, assuming it is fuel you're actually smelling.

What I call a long OCI is what Vauxhall/Opel used to do (maybe still do??), some of their cars have 20k miles OCI!!
Incidentally my old 330d e46 I had I stuck to the dash OCI recommendations, which worked out to about 15k miles or 2yrs, and I had the oil analysed on 1 occasion. They said the oil was still fine and could have gone on longer, I did have the EGR valve disabled though which reduces particulate contamination of the oil and so helps the TIM levels stay lower. I got that car with 88k miles on the clock, sold it to a friend with 192k, he's still got it and it's done 220k miles, engine's still fine as is the turbo . All on dash OCI, actually my friend has been stretching even that!
My current 330d (e90) though is remapped and I will be changing its oil yearly (roughly 10-12k), IIRC the dash recommendation is also 15k/2yrs.

[Headhunter.M3]

I keep running 10w60. Usually motul but i wanna try castrol supercar.

Im too nervous to try any other viscosities other than what bmw recommends especially because of the high hths of 10w60 and i love redlining my car.

The hths of motul 5w50 is only 4.5 where motul 10w60 is 5.8. The 5w50 is a thinner viscosity but may not be enough protection. It's really hard to say why rod bearings sometimes go bad in the m3s but i really don't think its because the 10w60 is too thick. Otherwise there would be other parts of the engine that would be breaking also. Ive had a couple m3s. Imho run 10w60 and if your worried about rod bearings just do an oil analysis and change oil atleast every 5000. Also alwasy warm your engine to atleast 210 F before redlining.. keep spark plugs fresh and run 93 octane as much as you can, top tier fuel.

Thinner viscosity also may not be good for seals and gaskets that are designed for thicker 10w60.

[Headhunter.M3]

If i were a betting man, I would say rod bearings have failed on the m3 at times because the owners of those m3s did not take care of them and drove the crap out of them not because bmw decided to recommend us the wrong oil.

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by Headhunter.M3

If i were a betting man, I would say rod bearings have failed on the m3 at times because the owners of those m3s did not take care of them and drove the crap out of them not because bmw decided to recommend us the wrong oil.

By your logic, we should expect to see failures in other cars too... this has been discussed.

[Headhunter.M3]

Originally Posted by Scharbag

By your logic, we should expect to see failures in other cars too... this has been discussed.

Yeah good point. Like who doesnt drive their m3 hard..

Seems all I really know for sure is the late model 2011s and on got "better" bearings

I hate all the hype around the issue but man it would suck to have them fail.

I will keep driving my e92!!! It's worth it!! Best car ever

[Headhunter.M3]

Could have been a bad batch from the supplier of the rod bearings. Like they ones that broke were made on the Monday after the superbowl, etc. Somethin like that. Lol idk

[bikenerd]

Originally Posted by Headhunter.M3

Seems all I really know for sure is the late model 2011s and on got "better" bearings

Do we know what the build date for this switch is?

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by Headhunter.M3

Yeah good point. Like who doesnt drive their m3 hard..

Seems all I really know for sure is the late model 2011s and on got "better" bearings

I hate all the hype around the issue but man it would suck to have them fail.

I will keep driving my e92!!! It's worth it!! Best car ever

They are not "better" - they are just different due to EU rules.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by Headhunter.M3

Yeah good point. Like who doesnt drive their m3 hard..

Seems all I really know for sure is the late model 2011s and on got "better" bearings

I hate all the hype around the issue but man it would suck to have them fail.

I will keep driving my e92!!! It's worth it!! Best car ever

No, not better. Just lead free for environmental reasons. No denying factory clearance is tight by industry standards. The failure rate is low but hundreds of motors have failed (this forum does includes just a fraction of total ownership).

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

No, not better. Just lead free for environmental reasons. No denying factory clearance is tight by industry standards. The failure rate is low but hundreds of motors have failed (this forum does includes just a fraction of total ownership).

I'm starting to wonder if they aren't better after all. We already know clearance is a tad more on the LCI shells, and the harder surface I'm not sure is an confirmed issue; once the bearing spin it doesn't matter how soft it is right, crank goes anyway.
We've seen tons of pre LCI shells worn down to the copper but (from pictures) rarely if ever the LCI. Although it turnes out also the LCI have a copper layer below. I'm starting to wonder.

[Assimilator1]

I'm with helmsman with this one, from what I've seen so far the LCI bearings do seem to fare better than the lead copper bearings, whether that's down to the slight increase in the minimum allowed clearance or the harder materials, or maybe both, or maybe improved engine building is hard/impossible to say. But certainly LCI bearings come out looking better than the earlier ones.
I've also not seen any LCI bearings show pure copper colour to date. (And it seems I was wrong about the goldy/brassy colour being the underneath layer, I need to update my mega post [update] Or am I? Maybe that colour is as a result of the copper partially showing through a ultra thin babbit layer?).
That said, some LCI engines have still blown up!

Originally Posted by Headhunter.M3

I keep running 10w60. Usually motul but i wanna try castrol supercar.

Im too nervous to try any other viscosities other than what bmw recommends especially because of the high hths of 10w60 and i love redlining my car.

The hths of motul 5w50 is only 4.5 where motul 10w60 is 5.8. The 5w50 is a thinner viscosity but may not be enough protection. It's really hard to say why rod bearings sometimes go bad in the m3s but i really don't think its because the 10w60 is too thick. Otherwise there would be other parts of the engine that would be breaking also. Ive had a couple m3s. Imho run 10w60 and if your worried about rod bearings just do an oil analysis and change oil atleast every 5000. Also alwasy warm your engine to atleast 210 F before redlining.. keep spark plugs fresh and run 93 octane as much as you can, top tier fuel.

Thinner viscosity also may not be good for seals and gaskets that are designed for thicker 10w60.

Oil analysis doesn't always pick up on failing bearings, see the link in my sig.

Oh and not everyone whose changed bearings or had blown engines drives the crap out of their M3 from cold. Not mention we'd be seeing loads of regular cars blown up if that were the case, we don't.
Not saying it wouldn't accelerate wear if it was abused, but it won't stop it either if it isn't, just delay it.

[SilverSlug]

Do we have an exact build date change of the newer bearings? Or is it all LCI models?

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by SilverSlug

Do we have an exact build date change of the newer bearings? Or is it all LCI models?

Believe the 702/703 shells was introduced in production Oct 2010 (i.e. 2011 year model and onwards)

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Believe the 702/703 shells was introduced in production Oct 2010 (i.e. 2011 year model and onwards)

My 2011 MY was built in March of 2010 and came with 088/089 bearings.

deansbimmer may be able to comment on how many 702/703 engines he has seen failed. IIRC it is not significantly better/worse than 088/089.

Cheers,

[Assimilator1]

Helmsman
Btw JFYI, I'm just wondering now if the brassy-goldy colour we see on some LCI shells might be as a result of the copper partially showing through a ultra thin babbit layer?

[Z K]

Originally Posted by Headhunter.M3

Yeah good point. Like who doesnt drive their m3 hard..

Seems all I really know for sure is the late model 2011s and on got "better" bearings

I hate all the hype around the issue but man it would suck to have them fail.

I will keep driving my e92!!! It's worth it!! Best car ever

I think it's the opposite.

BE Bearings mentioned in their analysis that the softer bearing design on the 08-09 cars are more durable. Just because it wears more doesn't mean it is less durable.

The harder bearings with no lead/copper was harder on the crankshaft. The softer lead/copper rod bearings looks bad when worn but is doing it's job. That's why most aftermarket bearings with increased clearance go with the lead/copper design rather than the harder rod bearing design BMW introduced. There's no data to indicate the new bearing design is better.

It's a $60-70k car. For $2000 or so, just get the aftermarket rod bearings installed by a good BMW shop. It's cheap insurance.

[Assimilator1]

Just because it wears more doesn't mean it is less durable.
Err that's contradictory , although I pretty much agree with the rest of what your saying.
That said, even with the harder bearings we don't seem to be seeing more scored cranks, so far.