ZCP vs 6MT

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by BOOF-M3

So I just tried to drive as you do, living between 4K and 7k RPMs. Not sure how you do that.

Really? I don't cruise that high but I use those revs consistently when I shift unless I'm in heavy traffic.

I can't see how you can't use 4-7k a lot.... especially in 2nd and 3rd gears. I mean, 4k in third gear in the 6MT is about 45mph... so just keep it in third a little longer before upshifting to 4th.

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

I'm relieved to see I'm not the only one here who isn't "enjoying" their car everywhere they go and perpetuating BMW driver stereotypes.

Sigh. I thought we were having an adult debate here. Why the passive-aggressive jabs?

We just disagree, on some levels, on how this car can be truly enjoyed. I like to push the car a bit more for it to be "fun" and you don't. It doesn't mean I drive like an asshole and it doesn't mean you drive like an old fart.

It's fine.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Sigh. I thought we were having an adult debate here. Why the passive-aggressive jabs?

We just disagree, on some levels, on how this car can be truly enjoyed. I like to push the car a bit more for it to be "fun" and you don't. It doesn't mean I drive like an asshole and it doesn't mean you drive like an old fart.

It's fine.

It was a joke and it wasn't aimed at you specifically.

[tooloud10]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

See, I disagree here. It's not at all a top of the line base car. To be top of the line means loaded with features and that is not what defines an M3. An M3 is a hardcore sport version of the base car - totally different driveline, bushings, mounts, wheels, brakes, suspension, tires, steering, etc.

They drive very, very differently although it is obvious they are based on the same platform.

What I mean by 'top of the line 3-series', is that if one doesn't care about the slightly rougher ride of the M3 or mileage (I don't), there's nothing that a standard 3-series or Accord coupe is better at than an M3.

FWIW, I ended up with an E93 M3 because while I was shopping for a 335i/is convertible, I realized that the M3 was barely any more money. Seemed like a no brainer for the extras you get. This is kinda why I roll my eyes when people whine about the E93--I'm getting everything I want out of an M3.

But if I had to drive it 5 days a week in heavy traffic, under 35mph it would not only suck, but be totally pointless to be in. There is simply no way you can call that "fun" in any car.

Thankfully I'm in the midwest (what traffic?). I do acknowledge that I'm more willing to put up with an 'uncomfortable' vehicle as a daily driver--I've spent years DDing my Miata and an F250 diesel as my only vehicle.

Used, yes. But not new - zero contest. Spending $40k on a new 3 series vs. a $25k on a new Accord is crazy and yet TONS of people do. And the irony is that the vast majority of people who do couldn't tell you the differences in how the two cars drive, which means that they're paying $15k extra for status.

I don't know about you, but $15k is a shitload of money. And in this case, down the drain.

Not that crazy, and the difference in driving dynamics means the the world to me. I agree that if you don't have $15k to essentially flush down the drain, you shouldn't have cars of this level. My 996 needed a new engine back in 2005 and cost about that, and my wife's X3 blew its N20 engine just a few months ago--BMW ended up covering that but the cost to me would have been more than $20k if I didn't get lucky.

Agreed - this is precisely why I've owned nothing but M3s (about 10 of them... I have a serious problem) over the last 15 years. Always with a pickup on the side, of course (home owner, dirt bike rider = mandatory truck)

There is no better all around car than the M3.

Yep, reading the C&D article calling the E93 M3 "the world'’s best (actual) four-place convertible" clinched it for me. I'm not sure anything better has come across in the 10 years it's been around.

[DSilk]

TooLoud10 posted:

"Thankfully I'm in the midwest (what traffic?). I do acknowledge that I'm more willing to put up with an 'uncomfortable' vehicle as a daily driver--I've spent years DDing my Miata and an F250 diesel as my only vehicle.



Not that crazy, and the difference in driving dynamics means the the world to me. I agree that if you don't have $15k to essentially flush down the drain, you shouldn't have cars of this level. My 996 needed a new engine back in 2005 and cost about that, and my wife's X3 blew its N20 engine just a few months ago--BMW ended up covering that but the cost to me would have been more than $20k if I didn't get lucky.



Yep, reading the C&D article calling the E93 M3 "the world'’s best (actual) four-place convertible" clinched it for me. I'm not sure anything better has come across in the 10 years it's been around.[/QUOTE]"




I think you have hit it spot on. I live in South Florida, where there is a lot of traffic and the roads are not well maintained, but the car has a comfortable ride with the suspension in either "comfort" or "normal" mode, and there is enough torque to keep from bogging down in slow traffic.

While I am not a huge fan of the folding hardtop, I agree with your other assessment. If you really want a convertible and need a car that will actually seat 4 people, there is nothing on the market better than the e93 M3.

[spazzyfry123]

So what we've determined is that ZCP is more desirable.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

So what we've determined is that ZCP is more desirable.

Pfft

[hookah]

I just drove a 2011 zcp dct today. I have a 2008 6spd. I thought I would like the dct more because I had amg's for years but I actually was missing my 6spd the whole drive. Yes the dct was quicker and the zcp steering felt a bit sharper but my car feels more visceral and savage. Just my opinon of course.

[Law]

Originally Posted by hookah

I just drove a 2011 zcp dct today. I have a 2008 6spd. I thought I would like the dct more because I had amg's for years but I actually was missing my 6spd the whole drive. Yes the dct was quicker and the zcp steering felt a bit sharper but my car feels more visceral and savage. Just my opinon of course.

It's hard to replace the feel of a manual for sure.
But regarding the steering, ZCP and non-ZCP steering is exactly the same (E46 M3 ZCPs had quicker steering ratios but the E9x M3 ZCP is unchanged here).
What difference you might've felt was probably due to the suspension.

[hookah]

Originally Posted by Law

It's hard to replace the feel of a manual for sure.
But regarding the steering, ZCP and non-ZCP steering is exactly the same (E46 M3 ZCPs had quicker steering ratios but the E9x M3 ZCP is unchanged here).
What difference you might've felt was probably due to the suspension.

Your right. So I went back to test drive it again because I was thinking of getting it since its newer and has less miles. Well, I don't mean to say DCT cars are any less fun, but I just could not pull the trigger. It felt very sedate to me and I also felt like while it was faster the car did not have the same soul mine has with a 6 spd. If I had never driven a 6 spd I probably would love the DCT more.

[BOOF-M3]

Originally Posted by hookah

Your right. So I went back to test drive it again because I was thinking of getting it since its newer and has less miles. Well, I don't mean to say DCT cars are any less fun, but I just could not pull the trigger. It felt very sedate to me and I also felt like while it was faster the car did not have the same soul mine has with a 6 spd. If I had never driven a 6 spd I probably would love the DCT more.

Curious on what you mean by "sedate". As in hop in, throw it in D and just drive?

[hookah]

Originally Posted by BOOF-M3

Curious on what you mean by "sedate". As in hop in, throw it in D and just drive?

I guess in a way yes. I also put all modes in max and I guess I was expecting for more of a aggressive jolt when paddle shifting. Maybe I was doing something wrong. Im guessing if I had more seat time with the DCT it would grow on me, but it was hard to not miss the manual while I was driving it.

[tooloud10]

Originally Posted by hookah

I guess in a way yes. I also put all modes in max and I guess I was expecting for more of a aggressive jolt when paddle shifting. Maybe I was doing something wrong. Im guessing if I had more seat time with the DCT it would grow on me, but it was hard to not miss the manual while I was driving it.

I'd argue that if you didn't think the DCT shifts were aggressive enough, you were definitely doing something wrong. I usually run my DCT in setting 4, which chirps the tires in the low gear upshifts. My wife has described settings 5-6 as 'violent' and doesn't like when I use them with her in the car. If you didn't feel something you'd call a 'jolt', the car is broken or you didn't press the right button. It flat out feels like you're abusing the car in the upper settings.

Also, the thing I always find funny is that driving my 6-speed 996 makes me miss the DCT, and driving my 5-speed NA Miata makes me miss driving a polished manual transmission, but not any of the ones available from BMW.

[Eau Rouge]

MT 100% of the time.

Mine is both MT+ZCP.

LOL at DCT vs MT posts.