|
|
08-25-2019, 08:42 AM | #67 | |
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
3946
Rep 2,964
Posts
Drives: 2011 E93 M3
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: DFW, Texas
|
Quote:
Like, 10k miles later when your oil pan starts to leak because you couldn't quite clean the surfaces well enough. Or 40k miles later because the upper shells weren't installed as well as if you had better access... Or as is the case with one of my customers- Another "pro" shop missed a minor detail by installing a bearing backwards and sent it out the door. Because they did the job with a subframe in their face the whole time.. It ran fine for 200 miles before knocking. They're now on the hook to pay for our work rebuilding that engine. ($16k) |
|
Appreciate
1
BayE301347.00 |
08-25-2019, 10:39 AM | #68 | |
Major General
1607
Rep 8,074
Posts
Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston, TX
|
Quote:
__________________
2018 F30 320iX Melbourne Red
2011 E90 M3 Monte Carlo Blue 2004 E46 M3 Imola Red 2000 E36/7 Z3 Steel Blue |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-25-2019, 01:10 PM | #69 |
Lieutenant General
5611
Rep 11,070
Posts |
|
Appreciate
2
Assimilator1615.50 brettcp356.00 |
08-25-2019, 02:01 PM | #70 | |
Brigadier General
4036
Rep 4,064
Posts |
I think it's pretty obvious pro or not, what matters most is cleanliness and attention to detail as well as taking your time and doing things right.
A busy shop environment, rushing to get it done because you only get paid X hrs per job (flat rate mechanics), working on several cars at the same time, switching between, answering customer phone calls, talking to walk in customers, starting and stopping etc etc. are distractions that can lead to mistakes. IMO it's important to avoid distractions and focus on the job at hand, and have attention to detail, that is something most shops are not good at doing PERIOD. Quote:
__________________
Last edited by tdott; 08-25-2019 at 06:46 PM.. |
|
Appreciate
2
Assimilator1615.50 m3s65b4.x67.50 |
08-25-2019, 04:24 PM | #71 | |
Lieutenant
515
Rep 468
Posts |
Quote:
It's why I shy away from preventative stuff other than things that can cause catastrophic failure. I can't count the number of times I have done work and have had leftover bolts or clips, or gotten a car back from a legitimately good shop and found a bolt missing. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
08-25-2019, 07:14 PM | #72 | |
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
3946
Rep 2,964
Posts
Drives: 2011 E93 M3
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: DFW, Texas
|
Quote:
I agree that many shop environments are as you describe, and we absolutely acknowledge it. We aren't and that's a huge selling point to our customers. I can't recall having a come back of any kind. We approach jobs with a critical mindset, and there are others out there like us too. Preventative maintenance is a good thing. MANY critical industries operate on that premise. Indeed, not every auto shop is up to it. However, there are many other good shops out there fighting to overcome the same mindset with their customers. Sadly, not everyone has access to these truly good shops- it's too bad for the car, and unfortunately sticks the good shops with the same stigma. |
|
08-26-2019, 04:20 PM | #73 | |
Colonel
2694
Rep 2,167
Posts
Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Victoria
|
Quote:
And it may be said, by a cheeky bastard like me, that it is actually better to have the engine above you as gravity will drop particulates down and out of the engine instead of into the cylinders... All kidding aside, it is about minimizing risk. Dropping the sub-frame does not introduce substantial risk as it is simple and pretty hard to screw that process up or break something given it is mostly robust. Other than a few small electrical connectors, most stuff is big, bulky and forgiving. The reward is unfettered access to the engine's bottom end. While removing the engine may marginally reduce some risk, such as better lighting or working position, the removal and re-installation process is rife with risk as there are many things that can be damaged or improperly removed/installed. I certainly wish more shops offered the level of care and support that shops like Deansbimmer offer. Sometimes, we owners are our own worst enemies. Expecting perfection while demanding the cheapest price allows shops that cut corners to stay in business. Competition is good, but make sure to compare apples to apples! I digress.
__________________
2011 E92 M3 - 6MT, ZCP, ZF LSD, ESS G1, Some other goodies... Last edited by Scharbag; 08-26-2019 at 04:58 PM.. |
|
Appreciate
3
|
03-27-2020, 02:22 PM | #74 |
Major
616
Rep 1,080
Posts
Drives: BMW M3 e92 08 & 330d e90 10
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: UK, Surrey
|
And so, I wonder if the op ever stripped down his engine to see if the No1 mains had failed?
I'm guessing not as the whole engine is for sale. Hello op? (I see you're still active here).
__________________
.
Oil analysis for finding wearing rod bearings?. Collation of oil analysis reports with some rod bearing photos for the M3's S65. My categorisation of pulled rod bearings in the rod bearing condition thread. My updated 'Blown engines' list. |
Appreciate
1
DrFerry6748.00 |
03-27-2020, 02:27 PM | #75 | |
Private
34
Rep 68
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
1
Assimilator1615.50 |
03-27-2020, 02:35 PM | #76 |
Save the Manuals
1739
Rep 2,958
Posts |
"previous owner said he did all maintenance at BMWs recommendations"
not necessarily comforting
__________________
2023 G80 6MT, CCBs
2002 330i Dinan, 5MT 2000 Z3 Conforti, 5MT |
Appreciate
0
|
03-27-2020, 02:50 PM | #77 |
Major
616
Rep 1,080
Posts
Drives: BMW M3 e92 08 & 330d e90 10
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: UK, Surrey
|
Ok, thanks for the update (maybe if you sell it, the buyer would strip it & LYK what happened to it?? If so, could you let us know?).
__________________
.
Oil analysis for finding wearing rod bearings?. Collation of oil analysis reports with some rod bearing photos for the M3's S65. My categorisation of pulled rod bearings in the rod bearing condition thread. My updated 'Blown engines' list. |
Appreciate
0
|
03-27-2020, 03:28 PM | #78 |
Private
34
Rep 68
Posts |
|
Appreciate
1
Assimilator1615.50 |
03-27-2020, 03:29 PM | #79 |
Private
34
Rep 68
Posts |
Mine were installed by the pretty much most reputable shop in the area. You can still spin a bearing lol.
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-27-2020, 04:38 PM | #80 |
Lieutenant General
5611
Rep 11,070
Posts |
The few times that replaced rod bearings have failed, it has been a main bearing that failed that caused the replaced bearings to fail. If anyone knows of cases in which replaced rod bearings have failed and the main bearings have been fine, post the details. It is certainly possible that someone could install rod bearings incorrectly and cause a failure, but I think at most there has been one example and can't remember the details so I am not even sure about the one.
There are a few people who suggest not changing rod bearings as preventative maintenance because it is just an opportunity for a mechanic to screw up your car, but people like that are in the minority and mechanics who screw up your car are also few and far between. They do exist. I started DIYing years ago to save money and have not used a shop in years. I did my own rod bearings in 2014, about 40k miles ago. There is now a good DIY by SYT_Shadow if you feel confident enough to do it or have a friend who knows more who would help. I had a mechanic friend stop by for the first set I did and then I helped someone else local do theirs a year later. |
Appreciate
0
|
03-27-2020, 08:38 PM | #81 | |
Private
34
Rep 68
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-27-2020, 08:42 PM | #82 |
Private
34
Rep 68
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-28-2020, 08:42 AM | #83 | ||||
Second Lieutenant
63
Rep 245
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
Technically speaking from engineering terminology, a part is considered to have "failed" once it wears out of spec. This means that many bearings fail. Pretty much every one taken out of a car shows excessive out of spec wear therefore meaning the bearings have failed. Now that doesn't mean that every failed bearing causes the engine to fail. While a bearings might have excessive wear and considered to be "failed" it generally requires much more wear until we see engine failure or other parts start to fail because of it. Example being a spun bearing marring or scoring the crank or a seized bearing throwing a rod. |
||||
Appreciate
0
|
03-28-2020, 10:11 AM | #84 | ||
Lieutenant
371
Rep 409
Posts |
Quote:
702/703 bearings definitely look worn when they're pulled, but unlike with traditional lead/copper bearings, we don't really have a reference for how their appearance correlates with wear because we don't really know what kind of bearing they are. It was thought for the longest time that they were bimetal aluminum because that's what BE had posted, but that turned out not to be true. They updated their info after that revelation, supposedly after calling Glyco; now they call it a "trimetal" bearing, but that doesn't say much and they don't seem to be in a hurry to share any further info. Also, I found a Glyco PDF (attached) that suggests that some amount of surface wear on a bearing with very tight clearance is normal and beneficial: Quote:
Not saying there's nothing wrong with 702/703 bearings, but I feel like there has to be more to the story than "looks worn = is worn out of spec". |
||
Appreciate
1
Assimilator1615.50 |
03-28-2020, 10:59 AM | #85 | |||
Second Lieutenant
63
Rep 245
Posts |
Quote:
However, due to the theory that hydrodynamic bearings should see little to no wear due to there being a layer of oil between the crank and the bearing, even if we can't tell what "layer" the wear has broke due to being a different type. On the updated bearings we can still see wear we just cant visually gauge the depth. I do not know the specifications for these bearings but if I were to bet I would say that any significant visual scoring, marring, scratching, loss of depth would violate a tolerance specification therefore labeling the bearings as "failed" Failed doesn't mean non operational, the engineering term of failure generally means out of spec wear, or plastic deformation and just that. Plenty of parts on cars or anything else in this world continue to go strong even though by definition they have "failed" |
|||
Appreciate
0
|
03-28-2020, 12:54 PM | #86 | |
Lieutenant
371
Rep 409
Posts |
Quote:
1. How do we know the discoloration on 702/703 bearings really represents breaking through one important layer to another vs. some other mechanism (e.g. tribochemical) that turns out to be benign? Maybe sometimes it's one thing and sometimes it's another. Could we tell the difference just by looking at the kinds of pics people post? 2. To the extent that we really are seeing wear, how do we know whether it's different from the beneficial effects that Glyco describes in the excerpt I posted? 3. Given that we've seen this discoloration on very low mileage bearings, how do we know it's not just some break-in-like process that happens quickly and then doesn't progress much over the life of the bearing? |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-29-2020, 08:47 AM | #87 |
Major
616
Rep 1,080
Posts
Drives: BMW M3 e92 08 & 330d e90 10
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: UK, Surrey
|
Thanks for the pdf linked, useful info
2. To the extent that we really are seeing wear, how do we know whether it's different from the beneficial effects that Glyco describes in the excerpt I posted? Photos in the pdf by Glyco would've been a start, sadly I see they don't have any relating to that issue . Re those later bearings, I would say that less of them appear badly worn vs the coppers ones, although I recall that Deansbimmer said on at least one occasion on one's he's replaced that some of them looked alright but felt really rough, obviously not good .
__________________
.
Oil analysis for finding wearing rod bearings?. Collation of oil analysis reports with some rod bearing photos for the M3's S65. My categorisation of pulled rod bearings in the rod bearing condition thread. My updated 'Blown engines' list. |
Appreciate
0
|
03-29-2020, 09:36 AM | #88 | |
Lieutenant
371
Rep 409
Posts |
Quote:
Some months ago, I did collect some example pics of 702/703 bearings from the bearing condition example thread and email them to someone at Glyco for comment. He said he couldn't tell for sure but "would guess" they show normal wear. I wouldn't take that as conclusive in any way, but I do think it's yet another reason not to take for granted that discoloration equals out-of-spec wear for 702/703 bearings. The real arbiter would be measurements. That'd shut things down pretty quickly, one way or another. |
|
Appreciate
1
Assimilator1615.50 |
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|