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12-15-2008, 05:02 PM | #67 |
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Yea Orb, please keep posting your findings as I will certainly apply these to my car.
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12-15-2008, 09:47 PM | #68 | ||
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12-15-2008, 10:41 PM | #69 | |
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Orb Last edited by Orb; 11-25-2011 at 12:09 PM.. |
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12-15-2008, 11:46 PM | #70 | |
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On your pictures I see a set of springs that look like H&R ... were you able to test them and to get some numbers for your 335 ? Just want to see if they are far off from the stock specs ... Thanks. |
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12-16-2008, 09:43 AM | #71 | |
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Some of those springs I have are H&R. I actually have another bunch in my garage that are from Hypercoil which are the best in the industry. After all my testing I kind come to one conclusion that BMW has it right for spring biasing between the front and rear. Going with stiffer spring and scaling the stiffness guaranties some degree of success with not much effort. This is a reasonable assumption to make to start with but it seems to be the case after messing around with this for months. My next setup is very close to M3 is stiffness biasing. The springs are within 3% and the roll bars are with 2%....this is just happen to how it just worked out right or wrong. FWIW, almost all my links and bushing are from M3 but this is a longer story. Orb Last edited by Orb; 12-16-2008 at 02:23 PM.. |
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12-16-2008, 09:55 AM | #72 | |
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12-16-2008, 02:42 PM | #73 |
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Drives: 2003 HPF 2.5, 2008 M3 (Sold)
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O.T. But I want to see your new interior BMW-M-Mexico!
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12-16-2008, 05:00 PM | #74 | |
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First I would like to commend everyone, especially Orb, for their work on their vehicles. Without your enthusiasm & desire to individualize your vehicles, there would be no aftermarket. The staff at KW take the information that has been presented here very seriously, and be assured that the concerns posted are being looked at by our engineers in Germany as we speak. We also have a direct dialog with Orb and will be able to address these concerns shortly. The comment above is one that I believe can be answered now without any engineering input and comes down to one statement: Intended Use – What do you need your suspension to do? In any situation with vehicles you have compromises. That is why the manufactures build what they build, and how they build it. A Mini Van is not intended to go on the track to pull lap times; it is intended to haul people, the same way an Aston Martin DBR9 is designed as a GT1 race car, not as a people hauler. Even with sport models, their chassis design, tire choice, suspension, brakes etc... Literally everything is a compromise with a specific lean towards the anticipated target market and driving level. With the KW lineup, we are really no different. We offer the following product lines that target different markets and driving levels within a sub segment of the market – Driving Enthusiasts: Street Systems:
They are adjusted similarly to the V3 & Clubsport kits, with independent Compression and Rebound that primarily focus on the low to mid speed of the damper range. Of course the dampening range is tailored to the specified spring rates and vehicle dynamics. For example factory bodied cars used in Vehicle Specific Series such as Mini Challenge, Suzuki Ignis Cup etc... They can also be delivered with TUV approval for use on street vehicles.
These systems are used in Top level motorsport activities such as American Lemans as well as the WTCC touring car series.So in summary, before you can judge any one particular product, you need to make sure you understand its intent, and I am hoping that my explanations above help you all in understanding KW’s product line and each individual models intent. I look forward to posting our engineers findings on the items put forth by Orb, and answering any and all of your following questions.
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12-16-2008, 05:58 PM | #75 |
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12-16-2008, 08:47 PM | #76 | |
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The KW v3 and other similar dampers do have the range to be converted to 60 mm spring. The KW by far has the best designed camber plate on the market and they are remarkably quiet. I’m not sure why they are not marketed more. Running a 230 lb/in front spring with 800 lb/in rear spring would give you close to the same stiffness biasing as the stock and seems to be within the range of the damper but Glen from KW would be the best person to ask about this. The TC Kline Koni is nice damper as well and reasonably priced and customizable. I wouldn't get the camber plates however. Glen made a very good point and the question is what would like and it the first thing one should ask them selves when looking into a system. I think this might be good time for all of you say what you want out of system. Last edited by Orb; 12-16-2008 at 10:24 PM.. |
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12-16-2008, 10:27 PM | #77 | |
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12-17-2008, 11:48 AM | #78 |
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12-17-2008, 02:23 PM | #79 |
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While we wait...
Hello again everyone.
After speaking with our staff here they brought up the work we have done in the USA with the 1 series this year (which shares a very similar platform with the current 3 series), and wanted to share that info with the members of the community while we wait for more data from Germany. According to Wikipedia (as an independent source, not just taking our word for it ) the major differences between the 1 and 3 series are: • Length: the 1 Series Coupe is 220 mm (8.7 in) shorter than 3-series Coupé (E92) • Weight: The curb weight is only a 90 lb (41 kg) reduction from the 335i Coupé. KW USA Data on this Platform: Case 1: Earlier this year, we enlisted VJ Mirzayan, a current driver for the Turner Motorsports Team in the 2008 Grand-Am KONI Challenge Series Street Tuner class to do testing on our suspension offerings for the new 1 Series BMW at Buttonwillow raceway. (datasheet and telemetry are posted below for your review) We performed the following testing on a 100% stock E82 Coupe with the 3.0 L 300 hp (220 kW) Twin Turbo:
Case 2: A V3 equipped vehicle was installed in the BMW Club Racing Series H-Stock class driven by veteran driver Ralph Warren (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=281136) I just received this information today: “It looks like it was a great 1st year after all for the 135i project (which included a cross-country trip and back to Watkins Glen). We were able to set 2 track records in our class (H-Stock) and pending final announcements from BMW Club Racing, it looks like driver Ralph Warren should win the H-Stock National Championship with the car. We've been getting some on track photos back from the photographers. Check them out in this photo gallery (you can see them in full size by clicking on the photos until you get to the larger version): http://www.bimmerfest.com/photos/sho...y.php/cat/3143 Thank you for all the support in helping to make it happen! Scott Cary” Case 3 - Just Added I just received this additional information on another 1 series that we worked with using the data from Buttonwillow in Case 1. This vehicle is owned by Madness Motorworks and was competing in the eurotuner GP 2008, and set the fastest lap time in this competition on our V3 kit at Willow Springs. http://www.eurotuner.com/videos/6203...deo/index.html Thank you all again for your time, and please let me know if you have any questions on this data, or on any other KW products for that matter.
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12-17-2008, 02:27 PM | #80 |
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Wow, I would have thought the difference in weight to be significantly larger. Surprise surprise!
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12-17-2008, 03:43 PM | #82 |
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KW calculating actual information makes a lot more sense, looks like there is a lot more real data than the body roll calculator
(The KW graph looks like something from F1) Trust the company that do their homework to develop products. |
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12-17-2008, 04:12 PM | #83 |
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Glen, Thank you for your thorough responses and participation on M3post.
Does KW have any plans to develop a coilover system that is EDC compatible. One that would allow adjustments at the push of a button? I think that would be the best thing for me, and many of the enthusiasts on this site. If so, when? If not, why? Thanks in advance. |
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12-17-2008, 05:52 PM | #85 | |
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Orb Last edited by Orb; 12-17-2008 at 09:59 PM.. |
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12-17-2008, 08:11 PM | #86 | |
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12-17-2008, 08:16 PM | #87 | |
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KW and EDC?
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Thanks for the question. The EDC debate is one that we have discussed internally for some time, and here is where KW stands. Currently we do not foresee producing an EDC compatible system for our Coilover kits and here is a peak into our thought process. Today we offer a Variant 3 system for the M3. With the available wide range of independent compression and rebound adjustment of the V3 dampers how could you settle for only 2 pre-set options? If you could, what would they be? Opinions always vary, but that is the beauty of the V3 system; the ability of the Driving Enthusiast to tailor the ride to their liking and or requirements with a simple adjustment. I know from my own experience with the V3’s on my Audi TTQ I have found and logged 4 settings that I will adjust my system to depending on what I am doing with the car. It’s quick, easy and gratification is immediate .
The next point is the Price. The electronics to interpret the BMW ECU signals and convert them to two motors on each Damper that would turn the adjusters, along with any and all additional wiring would add up really quickly, and the business case quickly disappears. Q:What price do you think you would accept on top of your coilovers to have this type of feature? On the other hand, a universal system to do this type of adjusting using an independent interface may be more cost effective as it could be amortized across a larger audience/multiple applications. This possibility is still being discussed at the top levels within the company. We will keep everyone posted as to how or if that idea evolves. I hope that helps you understand our position, and I look forward to your feedback.
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