HPDE experiments, results and observations

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by DRLane

I'm forever confused why the willingness to experiment is only one sided. You'll buy used eBay tires and drive 140mph with trees and obstacles surrounding you, but wont try a proper set or endurance tires even for the sake of continued experimentation?

Exactly this.

Originally Posted by DRLane

It's 7-10 race not 4 hours and that's definitely more impacting than 14x 20 min cycles. I don't think the Force is impacted by heat cycles, if it is 14 is a low count. The RR is absolutely impacted by HC and age and you mentioned it lasted 25? I would think the Force can manage 14…

I do not believe tires come to temp driving to / from the track unless you're driving very aggressively. But check, pull over and poke them with pyrometer.

I also suspect the Force would last longer (perhaps significantly longer) than the RR's, and it sounds like the RR's wear decently well for him.

Driving to and from the track, the only 'wear' would be possible wear related to the alignment. The tires do not come anywhere close to operating temp cruising on the highway.

[Bartledoo]

Another thing to note is that you sometimes in the past you have put very grippy tires on the car and then run similar lap times to low grip tires you’ve previously run. Then you’ve said that those tires are all the same pace. However, you are just not actually using the grip of the better tires, and so those tires also last much longer than they should’ve.

Basically, all of your results are skewed in so many different ways that it’s impossible for anyone to keep track of it. You are making claims based on your own experience, but your own experience is what is actually causing a lot of these very strange occurrences.

If you are actually trying to experiment and learn, then just try something that actually makes sense just for once. Don’t you want to get us off your backs? You may actually learn something in the process and save some money. Out of thirty track days this is such an inconsequential cost.

Also, the force will last so much longer than 14 hpde sessions. Additionally, hpde sessions do not qualify as full heat cycles.

[rhyary]

Just because I report on tires, does not mean that this is the only thing that is going on.

At the moment, I am not buying tires over $300. I do appreciate the encouragement to learn something, experiment better and spend money more wisely.

The Force is a a new tire and I eagerly waiting for others to experiment with it and report on its performance using better driver, more consistent setup, and not my wallet.

Just kidding guys. It's all good. I had a lousy start to 2021 and only mid season started to enjoy the driving. So tires can be the least of my concerns if the car is overheating.

My JRZ are being rebuilt and I am waiting to hear on the dyno results before they are taking the shocks apart. Will give me idea what I was driving on at the end of the season.

[tsk94]

I've said it before, but I'll say it again. For all the shit we give you, we are doing it to try and help And we hope you realize that.

As long as you're out there having fun, it doesn't really matter what tires you're on. Who knows, there's a chance we're wrong and the Forces wouldn't wear way better - you never know.. But I have a suspicious if you were to try them, you'd come back and be telling us how happy you are that you decided to give them a try

[rhyary]

I do and I appreciate it.

If you guys buy me a front Force 265/35/19 I promise to put it on for an NYST day and let you all know what I think about it.

I have a two days back to back in the summer where I am instructing a BMW club at NYST so I get lots of track time and it will be a good test.

Plenty of time for you guys to get organized.

JK

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by rhyary

I do and I appreciate it.

If you guys buy me a front Force 265/35/19 I promise to put it on for an NYST day and let you all know what I think about it.

I have a two days back to back in the summer where I am instructing a BMW club at NYST so I get lots of track time and it will be a good test.

Plenty of time for you guys to get organized.

JK

I’ve already tested them, so I’m good. They will definitely be going on my C8 in very wide sizes, when I actually get that car haha.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

I've already tested them, so I'm good. They will definitely be going on my C8 in very wide sizes, when I actually get that car haha.

C8? meh
Get the z06 with the z07 package.

[dparm]

Grand Sport without Z07 is the patrician choice.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by rhyary

C8? meh
Get the z06 with the z07 package.

I think the ship for a C8 Z06 has sailed long ago. Too expensive for me anyways.

[sc_tr0jan_m3]

This thread is forever entertaining

[DRLane]

Should rename it Rhyary's Tire Musings. It's almost 2022!

[rhyary]

I received the 4 x 275/35/19 S007 and I like what I see.

Specifically I like the inside and out side shoulders. Unlike large contact patches separated by big water channels i.e. R888R and ECSTA V720, the outsides are almost slicks with small divots. Very similar to the Pirelli Trofeo.

Unlike the Trofeo, the middle of the tire tire does not carry that pattern. It is more traditional 3 large longitudinal gaps.

The dura meter is reading quite a soft tire in the 70s range. Harder on the outsides and softer in the insides.

In comparison a MPSS readings are 80-81 depends on location.

Given what I see, I think in a straight line there is a lot of air gaps in the contact patch, BUT on the turns using the sides it is almost as going on slicks.

I have very good experience with the ECSTA V720 275/35/19 on the rear at PMP. From the look of the S007 it should be similar or better.

Since I have a lot of experience with 295/30/19 and some experience with 305/30/19, it is hard to know exactly how the taller tire (35) will play out traction wise.

We all know that the tire os part of the suspension. And a /35/19 tire has more suspension than a /30/19 tire. So not clear how this all work out as a final outcome.

For a more extreme example, When I tried the RT660 275/30/19 I made the JRZ a lot softer. This resulted in more weight shift but the tire did not skip as much. A 275/30/19 has such a short sidewall, it is like riding on the rim.

Conversely, when I had the RT660 265/35/19 up front, it felt like a Cadillac. I dialed the JRZ on a lot stiffer setting, less weight shifting but I had less rubber on the front.

While the times at LRP and NYST were similar, the 265/35/19 was faster and more consistence.

This perhaps indicate that going from 295 and 305 down to 275 width will not be necessarily slower. In addition my straggle with the 305/30/19, while I like very much how the car feels, was to get temperature into that size tire.

At high speed WGI, I got temperatures into the 305/30. But at LRP and NYST I couldn't.

Lastly, this year I registered to 10 days of Car Clinic Control at LRP. The SCDA runs the CCC at the upper level or LRP. That will be excellent time to bring a more squarish setup and let the rear move about.

For $132/tire and given what I see, I ordered 4 more for a total of 8 rears.

Sorry, the "Force" will not be with me this year :-(

[///Mobbin]

It's really hard to beat $132/tire, don't blame you! Congrats on finding this deal, I've been searching for deals like this on 18's and still empty handed.

[dparm]

I miss the days of sub-$300 tires.

[rhyary]

I got interested in the Nankang AR-1.
I remember checking into this tire previously but they did not have 19" available and I lost interest.

Well…

Going on Phill's Tires Service (PTS) I am finding out I can order 265/35/19 275/35/19 or even 305/30/19.

So if I am going to spend $1300 on a set of tires - this is a very compelling tire to try.

As far as to which rear size 275 or 305. I will have to wait and see how that combination works for me.

Regardless - I now have something to look up to because I think the AR-1 will yield a very fast and consistent lap time.

There is something I learned. I am not bringing a full priced tires to NYST. For that track I'll be taking the ones I bought on sale.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by rhyary

I got interested in the Nankang AR-1.
I remember checking into this tire previously but they did not have 19" available and I lost interest.

Well…

Going on Phill's Tires Service (PTS) I am finding out I can order 265/35/19 275/35/19 or even 305/30/19.

So if I am going to spend $1300 on a set of tires - this is a very compelling tire to try.

As far as to which rear size 275 or 305. I will have to wait and see how that combination works for me.

Regardless - I now have something to look up to because I think the AR-1 will yield a very fast and consistent lap time.

There is something I learned. I am not bringing a full priced tires to NYST. For that track I'll be taking the ones I bought on sale.

AR1 does not last very long, and is a time attack tire that overheats very quickly when pushed hard. You are barking up the wrong tree if you are actually looking for an economic choice. They aren’t even that fast either. You are so damn confusing ughhh. We just gave you a good option in that price range that actually lasts. Are you trolling??

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

AR1 does not last very long, and is a time attack tire that overheats very quickly when pushed hard. You are barking up the wrong tree if you are actually looking for an economic choice. They aren't even that fast either. You are so damn confusing ughhh. We just gave you a good option in that price range that actually lasts. Are you trolling??

I got the same chuckle…

[sc_tr0jan_m3]

AR1 are incredibly underwhelming. Don't waste your money just to satisfy your "experimenting"

[slcook54]

That's the part of this thread that makes no sense. The equation should be:

Price divided by longevity = tire cost per track day

Looking at tires and price independent of wear makes no sense.

It you want bang for the buck switch to an 18 and run the Force or Hankook RS4.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by sc_tr0jan_m3

AR1 are incredibly underwhelming. Don't waste your money just to satisfy your "experimenting"

Thanks.
They looked promising but I am in no rush to try them.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by slcook54

That's the part of this thread that makes no sense. The equation should be:

Price divided by longevity = tire cost per track day

Looking at tires and price independent of wear makes no sense.

It you want bang for the buck switch to an 18 and run the Force or Hankook RS4.

It makes sense if you understand that I buy $132/tire for cost effective and the tire objective is to be "good enough".

When I talk about full priced 100tw tire, I wonder how fast they are, not how cheap they are to run.

Some of you are convinced that $182 RE-71R and S007 $132/tire is more expensive than full priced Force because of the longevity of the advertised Force. But you are just guessing, because longevity is function of weight and pace and driving style.

I have said it number of times through out this thread, I do a lot of trackdays. And I have many objectives. Some of you find it confusing and I understand that.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by sc_tr0jan_m3

AR1 are incredibly underwhelming. Don't waste your money just to satisfy your "experimenting"

Are these reviews means nothing?
There are good reviews on the AR-1

http://speed.academy/100-tread-wear-...c1-toyo-r888r/

https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...-review-2.html