Oil Analysis Reports

[M3an V8]

Originally Posted by jimk

Great report! What type of oil have you been using?

LM 10w-60

[squartus]

Another good oil report from my supercharged M3 with ARP rod bolts and WPC treated bearings (both done at 30k with SC install)
Been running Motul 5w40 for past 15,000 miles and ran 1500 miles over my normal oil change time on this sample but all was still good.

[neel1114]

Hi All,

I picked up my 2008 E90 DCT (MY09 here in SA) on 26 Feb.

Took it in for an oil change and analysis at an independent workshop.

Report did not come back good - lots of lead and signs of over heating. Was told not to drive the car until my booking with the workshop on 29 March 2016. May I please get your thoughts on what I could be in for here. Could the crank or other parts of the engine also be damaged? I did enjoy the car on the Friday and Saturday before receiving report on Monday - on fresh LM 10w60.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by squartus

Another good oil report from my supercharged M3 with ARP rod bolts and WPC treated bearings (both done at 30k with SC install)
Been running Motul 5w40 for past 15,000 miles and ran 1500 miles over my normal oil change time on this sample but all was still good.

Pay for TAN and TBN next time to make sure that longer interval is indeed safe. TBN by itself is of limited use.

[4corners]

Originally Posted by neel1114

Hi All,

I picked up my 2008 E90 DCT (MY09 here in SA) on 26 Feb.

Took it in for an oil change and analysis at an independent workshop.

Report did not come back good - lots of lead and signs of over heating. Was told not to drive the car until my booking with the workshop on 29 March 2016. May I please get your thoughts on what I could be in for here. Could the crank or other parts of the engine also be damaged? I did enjoy the car on the Friday and Saturday before receiving report on Monday - on fresh LM 10w60.

Good reports have not accurately predicted failure. Do bad reports indicate imminent failure? If it was my car I'd do the bearings ASAP. $2400 or $24000, your choice.

[neel1114]

I am doing them..I just hope that the crank is still ok. I just want to get back to enjoying the car asap

[Shredicus]

Originally Posted by neel1114

I am doing them..I just hope that the crank is still ok. I just want to get back to enjoying the car asap

More than likely you'll need your rod bearings changed. Search around the site and there are tons of posts on the procedure. It's not a horribly involved job, but it involves hanging the frotn subframe down to access the bottom end of the motor. Labor tends to runs around ~2k USD whatever rod bearings and bolts you decide on and gaskets. General consensus is the premature failure of these bearings is caused by tolerances being too tight between the rod bearings and the crankshaft journals causing oil starvation. Seems to be most common on 2008 and 2011 MY cars.

Your iron count(reflective of crank/cam wear) by comparison was within the average for the mileage on the oil. Additionally with the lead being quite high and the copper not being huge yet I'd say you're in the least damaging stage of rod bearing failure where your soft lead babbitt layer (outermost surface of the bearing that touches the crank) has become significantly worn down to reveal the copper backing underneath.

This is a sacrificial layer meant to kill itself before harming the crank so I'd say your crank should be fine when they pull the bearings. Best of luck

[squartus]

Originally Posted by dparm

Pay for TAN and TBN next time to make sure that longer interval is indeed safe. TBN by itself is of limited use.

Not a very long intervual, usually do it at 5k this one was little over 6k.

[neel1114]

Originally Posted by Shredicus

More than likely you'll need your rod bearings changed. Search around the site and there are tons of posts on the procedure. It's not a horribly involved job, but it involves hanging the frotn subframe down to access the bottom end of the motor. Labor tends to runs around ~2k USD whatever rod bearings and bolts you decide on and gaskets. General consensus is the premature failure of these bearings is caused by tolerances being too tight between the rod bearings and the crankshaft journals causing oil starvation. Seems to be most common on 2008 and 2011 MY cars.

Your iron count(reflective of crank/cam wear) by comparison was within the average for the mileage on the oil. Additionally with the lead being quite high and the copper not being huge yet I'd say you're in the least damaging stage of rod bearing failure where your soft lead babbitt layer (outermost surface of the bearing that touches the crank) has become significantly worn down to reveal the copper backing underneath.

This is a sacrificial layer meant to kill itself before harming the crank so I'd say your crank should be fine when they pull the bearings. Best of luck

Thanks for the feedback - I am being quoted ZAR25000-00 for the repair which at current exchange rates works out to 1600USD for OEM bearings and bolts incl Labour.

The shop, which is highly regarded here, insists on going OEM on bearings because quote "coated bearings don't fit". Seeing as these things seem to fail at any mileage this does not seem to be a long term solution to the problem. Also I am sure they will be the newer spec bearing with no lead - how does one detect wear in this situation?

[Shredicus]

Originally Posted by neel1114

Thanks for the feedback - I am being quoted ZAR25000-00 for the repair which at current exchange rates works out to 1600USD for OEM bearings and bolts incl Labour.

The shop, which is highly regarded here, insists on going OEM on bearings because quote "coated bearings don't fit". Seeing as these things seem to fail at any mileage this does not seem to be a long term solution to the problem. Also I am sure they will be the newer spec bearing with no lead - how does one detect wear in this situation?

Check out BE bearings. They are slightly undersized, coated, and use the lead/copper backing

https://www.bebearings.com

[neel1114]

Can the BE Bearings be used with OEM bolts safely or are the ARP bolts on the site the only bolts that can be used?

[jason.wu]

Originally Posted by neel1114

Can the BE Bearings be used with OEM bolts safely or are the ARP bolts on the site the only bolts that can be used?

From what I've read, you can use both.

Just sent in my first oil report and talking to friends and friends on this forum, my car is showing no signs of bearing wear. Fingers crossed of course while I wait for the results.

EDIT: Wow I got results in just 1-2 days since sending my sample. Super fast! I am seriously one happy guy right now to say the least. I did an oil change at a 4k mile interval previous to this 1k mile sample, but forgot to send it. Will definitely send a 4k sample on my next oil change.

[MTROIS]

This is not a perfect science yet, and there is probably over emphasis on this rod bearing "issue" for the S65 (especially in comparison to the S54 history), but I tend to agree with the comments I have seen concerning your report. In general, it is estabilished that more Lead is found in samples for 08's than for later Model Years (due to the change in bearing material apparently). It does seem though that once Copper starts to appear, bearings seem to be closer to the end of their lifetime. I would personally stick with OEM as well, since these appear to have been perfected by BMW.

Overheating is probably another issue. Do you have a fault triggered by the CBS? May be your thermostat is starting to fail? I just had mine changed this past week.

Let us know how you make out in the end.

Originally Posted by neel1114

Thanks for the feedback - I am being quoted ZAR25000-00 for the repair which at current exchange rates works out to 1600USD for OEM bearings and bolts incl Labour.

The shop, which is highly regarded here, insists on going OEM on bearings because quote "coated bearings don't fit". Seeing as these things seem to fail at any mileage this does not seem to be a long term solution to the problem. Also I am sure they will be the newer spec bearing with no lead - how does one detect wear in this situation?

[MTROIS]

Great results, but you are seriously changing oil every 1,000 to 4,000 miles?
I would argue this is an overkill. I am not advocating to go to the 15kmiles BMW "recommended" interval, but <4k miles is a bit extreme.

Originally Posted by jason.wu

From what I've read, you can use both.

Just sent in my first oil report and talking to friends and friends on this forum, my car is showing no signs of bearing wear. Fingers crossed of course while I wait for the results.

EDIT: Wow I got results in just 1-2 days since sending my sample. Super fast! I am seriously one happy guy right now to say the least. I did an oil change at a 4k mile interval previous to this 1k mile sample, but forgot to send it. Will definitely send a 4k sample on my next oil change.

[MTROIS]

Here is my latest report.
I was initially (a bit) worried and considered changing the bearings ASAP, but after further toughts, I think I will do another analysis in ~7,000 miles since Copper still does not show up.

My reasoning being especially that in this last oil change interval, I did not add any new oil in at least the last 2,000 miles prior to the analysis, which is different from the previous samples. I am thus suspecting that the oil was a bit more "dirty" and particles more concentrated than in the past.

Will keep you posted with next report.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by neel1114

Can the BE Bearings be used with OEM bolts safely or are the ARP bolts on the site the only bolts that can be used?

You can use either bolt type. The OEM ones are cheaper but require a labor intensive torquing process. The ARP ones are more expensive but are a whole lot simpler to install. Your call.

[Leonardo629]

MTROIS, Blackstone accounts for the oil added, so your results shouldn't be foiled whether you added oil or not...well..as long as you reported the oil added accurately enough.

[jason.wu]

Originally Posted by MTROIS

Great results, but you are seriously changing oil every 1,000 to 4,000 miles?
I would argue this is an overkill. I am not advocating to go to the 15kmiles BMW "recommended" interval, but <4k miles is a bit extreme.

Thanks! I usually change my oil between 4k - 5k miles. Again, I forgot to send my 4k (ish) sample prior for a report and didn't want to wait a long time for some kind of testing results since I only drive my M3 once a week.

I 100% agree with you that doing an oil change between 1k - 4k is overkill.

[monterey]

I just picked up this 08 so I did an analysis for peace of mind. I'm so happy to see the results.

[Sunny D]

Just got my first report back, what do you all think?

[Som]

Sorry for the double post, since I started a thread with my report before I saw this. 16k intervals on 10W-60. Not much hard driving. Couple early (<10k miles) trackdays.

Still trying to parse through other reports and determine how much some of the elevated levels might be due to real problems vs. just prolonged interval. I think the universal averages are based on engine type/mileage rather than interval, so I'm guessing a longer interval means more time for normal wear metals to accumulate in the oil.

That said, BL guy says I should give 18k a shot. Heh.



Som

Edit: I should point out that the reason I'm searching through M3Post to begin with is because I had oil spray out of my oil fill cap and all over the passenger side of my engine. It's possibly due to the a faulty oil cap, but I'm also researching to determine if it might have something to do with a crank breather getting plugged. If it's the latter reason, it's possible my long interval oil changes contributed to the problem (I haven't determine how those things work / get clogged, yet).

Edit 2: The oil issue appears to have turned out to be a dirty oil fill cap. Cleaned the cap and the leak appears to be gone.

Also should add to this post my basic driving habit. I don't idle to warm up the car at all. I don't push the car past 3-4k RPM or use more than half throttle until the temp hits the first dot (1/4 way up to temp). From there until I'm up to temp (roughly just under the 50/50 mark on the gauge) I'll drive as normal but try and avoid WOT and keep it under 7k.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Som

Sorry for the double post, since I started a thread with my report before I saw this. 16k intervals on 10W-60. Not much hard driving. Couple early (<10k miles) trackdays.

Still trying to parse through other reports and determine how much some of the elevated levels might be due to real problems vs. just prolonged interval. I think the universal averages are based on engine type/mileage rather than interval, so I'm guessing a longer interval means more time for normal wear metals to accumulate in the oil.

That said, BL guy says I should give 18k a shot. Heh.

Som

Edit: I should point out that the reason I'm searching through M3Post to begin with is because I had oil spray out of my oil fill cap and all over the passenger side of my engine. It's possibly due to the a faulty oil cap, but I'm also researching to determine if it might have something to do with a crank breather getting plugged. If it's the latter reason, it's possible my long interval oil changes contributed to the problem (I haven't determine how those things work / get clogged, yet).

I think I'd shorten the interval a bit. I agree that the particulate count is stable or even going down, so that's probably just the baseline for your engine. The whole point of a UOA is to establish the "normal" for your engine and watch for deviations.

Next time, pay for TBN and TAN so you can more accurately assess the change interval. TBN of 1.5 is definitely on the low side, but if the TAN was very high that means you should've changed it long ago. Call Blackstone and see if they still have enough of your sample left to run the TAN. It's only $10.